What plane would you fly "just for fun" and to build experience?

flyingcheesehead said:
There are conversion kids for the 150/152 to a taildragger configuration as well, known as the "Texas Taildragger". But you probably don't want to do the tailwheel just to fly a 152.
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The local pilot who owns one of these conversions seems to have more fun flying it than anyone else on the field, including the guy with a T-6. So YMMV but I wouldn’t assume anyone who enjoys tail wheel flying wouldn’t enjoy a 150/152 conversion.
 
Lunar Module said:
The rental fleet at my airport is pretty thin so I have been thinking about possibly buying a plane. One that is easy to fly, fun and good to hone skills on. It doesn't need to go fast or far. It doesn't need to hold more than two people. I'd like it to be reasonably well equipped so I can get practice using modern avionics, including instrument stuff, if only for practice and fun. I might want to go for an IFR rating eventually.
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If this is your mission, I don't think you're going to be able to go far from something like a C150, RV-12, CH650, CH750 or Vashon Ranger without the price going significantly into six figures. What is your budget for acquisition and operation?
 
Lunar Module said:
How do the airplane builders stay in business if most of their target market can't afford their products?
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Most new Pipers and Cessnas go to flight schools. That's why you see them asking 200+/hr for a 172. They might amortize their investment in 4 years if they're lucky.
 
Nobody's mentioned the Stinson 108 yet. A nice example can be found for less than a beat-up 172. Great stick and rudder flying to hone your skills.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Most new Pipers and Cessnas go to flight schools. That's why you see them asking 200+/hr for a 172. They might amortize their investment in 4 years if they're lucky.
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Ah, I see. Makes sense. But if that's the case, I wonder why am I paying $196/hr for a 17 yo Cessna 172S with steam gauges (although it does have a GTN750xi)? Even the two 49 yo 172M's rent for $166. But I don't think they are making a killing on these planes even at those prices. Would be nice if they had the cash to upgrade to a newer set of planes (it's not so much the planes themselves, it's the panels).
 
idahoflier said:
If this is your mission, I don't think you're going to be able to go far from something like a C150, RV-12, CH650, CH750 or Vashon Ranger without the price going significantly into six figures. What is your budget for acquisition and operation?
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I haven't really set a limit on my budget, but given my mission I don't want to spend a stupid amount of money. I'm thinking that somewhere in the $130-250K range would probably make sense, but that puts me in planes with panels similar to those in the rental fleet I have access to. To get what I think I want it looks as though planes are in the $350-550K range, which I might be able to finance but which probably wouldn't be sensible given my situation. A bit frustrating.
 
Lunar Module said:
I haven't really set a limit on my budget, but given my mission I don't want to spend a stupid amount of money. I'm thinking that somewhere in the $130-250K range would probably make sense, but that puts me in planes with panels similar to those in the rental fleet I have access to. To get what I think I want it looks as though planes are in the $350-550K range, which I might be able to finance but which probably wouldn't be sensible given my situation. A bit frustrating.
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If the panel is that important, perhaps consider getting yourself an older plane in good condition, and then dropping an avionics upgrade into it. I bought my old Cherokee 180 for $74k with old steam gauges and I've dropped about $45k in avionics upgrades into it. I'll probably drop another $30k for an autopilot and a G3x install, and then I'll have a fully glass panel with excellent IFR capabilities, in a plane I can likely fly for the rest of my life in anything except icing and thunderstorms. It ain't fast, but I'm paying for the pleasure of flying. If I want to get there quickly and reliably, I'll buy an airline ticket.

As an aside, you may be a little overly focused on panels and avionics. A lot of us learned to fly (including instrument ratings) with steam gauges and no GPS at all. There's a lot of satisfaction in mastering a plane without all the fancy whizbang stuff, and a lot of folks fly with old panels and an iPad for the fancy moving map. There's probably more than a few posters around here who aren't entirely convinced that you need anything in the plane beyond a watch and a compass to adequately fly and navigate a plane.
 
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AvNavCom said:
If the panel is that important, perhaps consider getting yourself an older plane in good condition, and then dropping an avionics upgrade into it. I bought my old Cherokee 180 for $74k with old steam gauges and I've dropped about $45k in avionics upgrades into it. I'll probably drop another $30k for an autopilot and a G3x install, and then I'll have a fully glass panel with excellent IFR capabilities, in a plane I can likely fly for the rest of my life in anything except icing and thunderstorms. It ain't fast, but I'm paying for the pleasure of flying. If I want to get there quickly and reliably, I'll buy an airline ticket.

As an aside, you may be a little overly focused on panels and avionics. A lot of us learned to fly (including instrument ratings) with steam gauges and no GPS at all. There's a lot of satisfaction in mastering a plane without all the fancy whizbang stuff, and a lot of folks fly with old panels and an iPad for the fancy moving map. There's probably more than a few posters around here who aren't entirely convinced that you need anything in the plane beyond a watch and a compass to adequately fly and navigate a plane.
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Thanks. I've thought about doing just that. Might be the best solution. Just not sure if I want to take that on right off the bat.

Re the panels/avionics: Yes. I get it. I first got my license 50+ years ago when glass panels didn't exist. And the planes I'm flying right now all have steam gauges (with a GPS navigator tossed in on the side). No one really needs the new glass flight displays, and I don't really even care that much about them. But I definitely want a high quality IFR certified GPS unit and would like radios, transponders, and probably even an autopilot that work together seamlessly. A coupled autopilot would be ideal. I'm old enough that I can use all the help that these modern devices can offer. I do understand that it is possible to rely on them to excess, but let's be real. How many airline pilots actually hand fly their airplanes except for the takeoff and touchdown? Fact of the matter is that autopilots combined with sophisticated GPS units make flying safer for the vast majority of pilots, especially in IFR applications. Plus they are interesting to learn. They do a great job of decreasing pilot workload. All in all, I think they are pretty neat.

I know this runs somewhat counter to the notion of flying a plane just for "fun" but I find that playing with the equipment is fun too. That's the reason that I seem so fixated on some of these modern "bush planes" like the CubCrafter (or Aviat and others, for that matter). They are fun planes to fly with or without the added equipment but they can also be equipped to be fully modern, very capable IFR platforms if desired (for a pretty penny.) They are kind of the airplane version of the mullet: all business up front and "let's party" in the back. : )
 
Lunar Module said:
I know this runs somewhat counter to the notion of flying a plane just for "fun" but I find that playing with the equipment is fun too. That's the reason that I seem so fixated on some of these modern "bush planes" like the CubCrafter (or Aviat and others, for that matter). They are fun planes to fly with or without the added equipment but they can also be equipped to be fully modern, very capable IFR platforms if desired (for a pretty penny.) They are kind of the airplane version of the mullet: all business up front and "let's party" in the back. : )
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Fair enough, and totally understand. Playing with avionics is definitely its own kind of fun! The unfortunate reality is that the avionics you're talking about are probably in the region of $100k+ to install, so that coupled with a newer plane is going to really sky-rocket the cost. Not sure where you live, but I wonder if you should explore the possibility of buying into a partnership that has a nicer, better equipped plane. That may be a better way of getting into the sort of plane you're hoping to fly without entirely breaking the bank! Some inquiries at local airports might reveal some opportunities.
 
AvNavCom said:
Fair enough, and totally understand. Playing with avionics is definitely its own kind of fun! The unfortunate reality is that the avionics you're talking about are probably in the region of $100k+ to install, so that coupled with a newer plane is going to really sky-rocket the cost. Not sure where you live, but I wonder if you should explore the possibility of buying into a partnership that has a nicer, better equipped plane. That may be a better way of getting into the sort of plane you're hoping to fly without entirely breaking the bank! Some inquiries at local airports might reveal some opportunities.
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That's an interesting idea. I hadn't consider looking for a partnership. I bet most privately owned airplanes with a single owner are sitting unused a substantial percent of the time. Even splitting ownership with one other partner would cut the cost of ownership in half, which would probably bring some pretty nice planes into the affordability range. I will ask the people at my local flight school if they know about anything local. I just joined the EAA and they have a chapter at the airport so maybe I should go over there and introduce myself and see if they know anyone.

That said, I imagine that anyone with their head screwed on straight would probably see me as a "high risk" partner given my low hours and age. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 
Lunar Module said:
I haven't really set a limit on my budget, but given my mission I don't want to spend a stupid amount of money. I'm thinking that somewhere in the $130-250K range would probably make sense, but that puts me in planes with panels similar to those in the rental fleet I have access to. To get what I think I want it looks as though planes are in the $350-550K range, which I might be able to finance but which probably wouldn't be sensible given my situation. A bit frustrating.
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So something like this?

 
Lunar Module said:
The cheapest planes I have seen that seem like possibilities for me are now in the $130K range and most are in the $160-210K range.
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I have mine insured for $45K and I find it great fun to fly, and good for building experience. There is a reason to explore some of the more unusual corners of the market, and to question what you think you may ‘need’.

Like many others (including you it appears) I could pay cash for a much more expensive plane, but based on experience I found that I wouldn’t have any more fun in doing so. So my money stays invested in things that tend to pay a return, not in things that may depreciate.
 
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idahoflier said:
So something like this?

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Yes. Exactly something like that.

Here is a YouTube video of what I my ideal setup would look like: "A Cub in the Clouds". It is a documentation of a short IFR flight from Anchorage AK to Palmer AK in a CubCrafters FX-3 taildragger in conditions that probably could have been flown VFR (with some effort) but was much easier and safer as IFR. He has a nice Garmin IFR setup with a G3x touch, a GNC 355 IFR GPS/comm, a GFC 500 autopilot, and a backup G5. Everything is connected to everything. One beautifully integrated setup in a very streamlined package. There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary about this flight except for the fact that it was conducted in a Cub type airplane.

Here is another equivalent YouTube from a different pilot flying a similarly equipped FX-3: RNAV GPS Approach Demo in a CubCrafters FX-3

The beauty of this type of plane (for me, at least) is that it would give me the opportunity to develop stick and rudder skills in a "fun" aircraft and to develop IFR skills using the latest technology. I wouldn't want to fly a plane like this in prolonged or severe IFR conditions but for the kind of flying shown in the first video it would be great.
 
Tusayan said:
I have mine insured for $45K and I find it great fun to fly, and good for building experience. There is a reason to explore some of the more unusual corners of the market, and to question what you think you may ‘need’.

Like many others (including you it appears) I could pay cash for a much more expensive plane, but based on experience I found that I wouldn’t have any more fun in doing so. So my money stays invested in things that tend to pay a return, not in things that may depreciate.
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Very wise and sensible. But SO hard to do. : )
 
Lunar Module said:
The beauty of this type of plane (for me, at least) is that it would give me the opportunity to develop stick and rudder skills in a "fun" aircraft and to develop IFR skills using the latest technology. I wouldn't want to fly a plane like this in prolonged or severe IFR conditions but for the kind of flying shown in the first video it would be great.
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So basically, you want everyone's dream plane. Haha! I'd love one of those too. Never going to happen unless I win the lottery.
 
AvNavCom said:
So basically, you want everyone's dream plane. Haha! I'd love one of those too. Never going to happen unless I win the lottery.
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For me, planes aren’t like other possessions where more money buys more enjoyment, newer is better, more is better etc. Instead I look at the plane as something timeless and financially valueless and find my enjoyment in owning it to be isolated from its value to other people. I fly more expensive, well known types sometimes and see that they may do somebody else’s job better but also that they are more responsibility and stress to own. My job is simply to own, fly, enjoy and appreciate the plane. It’s an escape from the rat race, not a part of the rat race.
 
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