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What kind of moron traffic engineer....
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colojo
Line Up and Wait
I'm more intrigued by the donuts in the intersection!
Pedals2Paddles
Cleared for Takeoff
WTF. Typically bike lanes are between the right turn lane and the straight ahead lane, for bike traffic going straight ahead. In this case, it is between two right turn lanes, there is no straight ahead, and the bike lane to the right is on the shoulder. So basically this is designed to kill all those who attempt it.
It kind of makes sense in an over thought engineer fashion. The guy in the second right turn lane is already looking for the traffic on his right, and once clear of the turn lane, the bike has a bigger buffer zone to deal with perpendicular traffic right turns in front of him keeping them away from the immediate acceleration of the straight out traffic. It may or may not work out, most likely not.
Maybe it was engineered assuming that straight ahead was on option and the second right turn lane is expected to be a straight ahead lane. Still doesn't make any sense. Where is this?
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Pretty much that, yes. All the traffic is turning right (that's the only place it can go at the present time). You think I'm going to ride in that lane? Hell no, I take the right hand traffic lane. They would have been better off not demarcating a bike lane to begin with in that intersection. It will really be messy once they complete the through road.
It would awkward (but safer) to put the lane on the right hand shoulder if they must put one.
Pedals2Paddles
Cleared for Takeoff
Ya the first thing I thought was some idiot just painted the wrong arrow. But there is no straight ahead. Looks like there will be though. So they probably did it correctly for what the intersection will be eventually. Which is deadly for what it is now.
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It's in Folsom, California. I was visiting there to ride with a group. It's on top of a fairly steep hill.
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Well, no, they didn't... what if the bicyclist wants to go straight? They would have to turn the inner turn lane in to a straight only. Or, leave it as a straight or turn lane, and omit the bike lane entirely. The rider will then take the straight/turn lane and occupy an entire space. That's what I do when I encounter them.
Pedals2Paddles
Cleared for Takeoff
Right. Look across the intersection. They're building something. The right turn lane on the left will inevitably become the straight lane, not a turn lane. So the bike lane is in the right place for future complete configuration with a single right turn lane. It's just screwed up today.
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It's not apparent from the picture, but the main arterial goes to the right and will continue to do so even after the straight ahead is completed (it will only feed a small subdivision and is the only way in and out) so they will still want to retain two right hand turn lanes in any case. Either way it's pretty jacked.
+1 you can hope.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
This would be ok if it could be limited to the "spandex crowd".
But I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of moron traffic engineers. We have a lot of intersections where there are two lanes. One is "left turn only" and the other is "right turn/Straight".
This means if the person in the right lane wants to go straight, everyone behind him has to wait. Since everyone in the left turn only lane has to wait anyway, it would make sense to put the "straight' lane with the left turn lane. Or in a lot of cases around here, there is room for 3 (left turn, straight and right turn).
And don't get me started on the morons that time the traffic lights such that there is NO WAY to make two green lights in a row. And I hate it when there are people sitting for minutes in all four directions while there is nobody taking advantage of the turn only lights.
Our county traffic engineers install new lights and create traffic jams where there were none before. 
Zeldman
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MAKG1
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MAKG
Let me guess. That's the "Independent System Operator" headquarters.
Even if the street is to be completed straight ahead, change the damn striping when that happens. How hard can it be?
Our county traffic engineers install new lights and create traffic jams where there were none before.
Key word to the whole problem is......ENGINEER....
.......
LauraE51
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Did anyone notice that the three left turning lanes have to merge into two lanes somewhere in the intersection?
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Yeah that's pretty funny but that road actually dead ends anyway a little past the picture, so nobody's turning there anyway.
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No but fairly close. And yes, they have to redo the striping completely anyway, so.....
Yeah.. I saw that too...
But.
The highly educated, degreed and certified ENGINEER seems to think it will be just fine...
..Absolute IDIOT....
......
MAKG1
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MAKG
Yeah.. I saw that too...
But.
The highly educated, degreed and certified ENGINEER seems to think it will be just fine...
Absolute IDIOT....
What makes you think the guy who made that decision had any degree?
Or that anyone actually made the decision?
This has "not my job" written all over it.
I know you don't like engineers, but you're reading a ridiculously large amount into this, just to make a point that has no support.
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Yeah.. I saw that too...
But.
The highly educated, degreed and certified ENGINEER seems to think it will be just fine...
Absolute IDIOT....
Okay I get why they did that although I don't agree with it - the other choice was to make the center lane another right turn only lane also causing a three in to two merge - but that's where all the traffic is going. What they SHOULD have done was simply to stripe-block the center lane and create a merge prior to the intersection.
ARFlyer
En-Route
The road dept. here has been building roundabouts at the newer intersections. The only issue is that they forgot the part about training drivers on how to use the darn thing. So you'll get people trying to go the wrong way and/or stopping in the middle and turning.
I actually saw a yard sign once that read "We don't need these Yankee circle roads".
I actually saw a yard sign once that read "We don't need these Yankee circle roads".
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My guess is the striping plan was schematic, someone referenced a standard detail that didn't work, and the PW inspector said "screw it just do it this way."
I mean, obviously it passed PW inspection. Or maybe it didn't, and just didn't get corrected.
The road dept. here has been building roundabouts at the newer intersections. The only issue is that they forgot the part about training drivers on how to use the darn thing. So you'll get people trying to go the wrong way and/or stopping in the middle and turning.
I actually saw a yard sign once that read "We don't need these Yankee circle roads".
A British idea I wish they'd kept over there.
The reason this is such a hot topic for me is.. Here in Jackson they have spent 20+ million for bike paths over the last few years... Bicyclists pay NOTHING to use them.. In fact the latest survey showed 92% of the cyclists still use the side of the road, which is 10 feet away from those 20+ million dollar bike paths..... And bicyclists don't pay road tax, or gas tax or ANY other tax to maintain that roadway...
Recently the county /city ENGINEER changed a intersection that has worked perfectly for 60 years to "fit" into the new bike path scheduled to be put in next summer.. This new "fit" was to make sure the bicyclists didn't have to slow down for the intersection.....
Well Guess what... Cars could NOT make the new turn onto the side road. Semi's could NOT Make the new turn.
So.. They ripped up a 600,000 project, spent another 300 grand in engineering fees, another 400 grand to rebuild it and now it is back to the way it was for the last 60 years....
Ya just can't make this stuff up.....
God save us all from engineers...
Recently the county /city ENGINEER changed a intersection that has worked perfectly for 60 years to "fit" into the new bike path scheduled to be put in next summer.. This new "fit" was to make sure the bicyclists didn't have to slow down for the intersection.....
Well Guess what... Cars could NOT make the new turn onto the side road. Semi's could NOT Make the new turn.
So.. They ripped up a 600,000 project, spent another 300 grand in engineering fees, another 400 grand to rebuild it and now it is back to the way it was for the last 60 years....
Ya just can't make this stuff up.....
God save us all from engineers...
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LoneAspen
Line Up and Wait
Maybe the traffic engineer moonlights as an undertaker and is trying to drive up business?
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The reason this is such a hot topic for me is.. Here in Jackson they have spent 20+ million for bike paths over the last few years... Bicyclists pay NOTHING to use them.. In fact the latest survey showed 92% of the cyclists still use the side of the road, which is 10 feet away from those 20+ million dollar bike paths..... And bicyclists don't pay road tax, or gas tax or ANY other tax to maintain that roadway...
Recently the county /city ENGINEER changed a intersection that has worked perfectly for 60 years to "fit" into the new bike path scheduled to be put in next summer.. This new "fit" was to make sure the bicyclists didn't have to slow down for the intersection.....
Well Guess what... Cars could NOT make the new turn onto the side road. Semi's could NOT Make the new turn.
So.. They ripped up a 600,000 project, spent another 300 grand in engineering fees, another 400 grand to rebuild it and now it is back to the way it was for the last 60 years....
Ya just can't make this stuff up.....
God save us all from engineers...
My experience with that kind of judgment and waste is that it usually is the result of decisions by elected local governmental officials, who then pass it on to the "engineers" to implement.
I kind of feel the same way about a lot of environmental and clean water legislation. Too many costly decisions are made on a non-scientific basis.
OK, I had a little time to nerd-out with Google Earth this morning. It looks like its been striped that way for years (and the donut marks are there about that long as well!)
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That would be accurate. I suspect it will stay that way for years as well. The local cyclists laugh when they ride by it.
The road dept. here has been building roundabouts at the newer intersections. The only issue is that they forgot the part about training drivers on how to use the darn thing. So you'll get people trying to go the wrong way and/or stopping in the middle and turning.
I actually saw a yard sign once that read "We don't need these Yankee circle roads".
Round-abouts really are the best way to keep high density traffic moving, you just can't be thinking competitively, looking to get ahead of the other guy, rather you have to think about where you fit best into the flow, and give consideration to keeping others moving as well; you have to think of the grand scheme of traffic while driving as fast and precisely as you can. That's what driving in Italy is like, and it is fun once you figure that out, the rules are expected courtesy. There are few stop signs and lights when compared to the US, yet the accident rate isn't bad.
flyingcheesehead
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The road dept. here has been building roundabouts at the newer intersections. The only issue is that they forgot the part about training drivers on how to use the darn thing. So you'll get people trying to go the wrong way and/or stopping in the middle and turning.
I actually saw a yard sign once that read "We don't need these Yankee circle roads".
A British idea I wish they'd kept over there.
We've been getting more traffic circles. I like them - They beat the hell out of 4-way stops, I only have to slow down to about 25-30 mph instead of coming to a stop (and invariably waiting for all the people stopped in front of me to take turns).
While stop signs have their place, there are quite a few intersections where they become a bottleneck, yet don't get enough traffic for a light. The traffic circles fit nicely in between.
The main problem is the people that don't know WTF "Yield" means, or how to use a traffic circle.
Let'sgoflying!
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If we are on pet peeves in the engineering & motor vehicle department I will take the opportunity to rant about parking lot design.
I think most mall/large retail store parking lots would work 400% more efficiently without all the curbs, lanes, planned blockades, landscaping, one-way parking lanes!
People are pretty good at getting in and out of the millions of small businesses that do not have all this nonsense!
I think I might just get one of those jacked-up pickups with big tires so I can cross all these barriers to parking! Why should I have to make a turn to get into the lot, then drive aways, then another 90, drive more, then a 270, be forced through a pedXwalk, doing a quarter mile in total, to get to something 200' away in a straight line?!
Dang, this is therapeutic - I feel better!
I think most mall/large retail store parking lots would work 400% more efficiently without all the curbs, lanes, planned blockades, landscaping, one-way parking lanes!
People are pretty good at getting in and out of the millions of small businesses that do not have all this nonsense!
I think I might just get one of those jacked-up pickups with big tires so I can cross all these barriers to parking! Why should I have to make a turn to get into the lot, then drive aways, then another 90, drive more, then a 270, be forced through a pedXwalk, doing a quarter mile in total, to get to something 200' away in a straight line?!
Dang, this is therapeutic - I feel better!
I agree with the curbs, but one thing you have to consider in parking lot design these days is managing the run off water, you can't let them go straight into the storm sewers anymore.
Yep. Bioswale requirements are popping up all over the place. You can barely repave a lot without having to put one in.
ARFlyer
En-Route
Thankfully, I picked up how to drive roundabouts while living in the Caribbean during my summers growing up. I find them quite useful.
All of the major intersections besides one in St. Maarten were roundabouts. That one intersection, which was finally converted three years ago, would back up the entire island during the peak rush hours. It was always a pain to drive to the airport/dive shop. You'd cover 7 miles in about 30-45 mins.
ARFlyer
En-Route
Wouldn't mind having those around here; I think they are a great idea. Many of our urban creeks are polluted beyond most recommend guidelines.