What is your CFI worth to you?

[N2124v]

I have similar arrangements with a few different people although it was never really arranged like that. They just let me use their aircraft and I quit charging. No real accounting behind it.

Yeah, there really is no accounting, just that's the stated arrangement. He knows that if he wants the plane and I'm not using it, it's his, just return it full of gas. Plus, he's on the insurance, makes it easy.

 

[warthog1984]

Thanks, Russ. I was looking for someone with experience charging for block time. It seems most people tend to think that they'll get 1.5 hours of instruction for a 2-hour cost. That would never be the case if I had anything to do with it.

But remember, the effective "learning" flight time for a student is anywhere from 0.7-1.2 hours. Are you really going to fill up 45-75 min with pre/post debrief everytime?

 

[Vance Breese]

But remember, the effective "learning" flight time for a student is anywhere from 0.7-1.2 hours. Are you really going to fill up 45-75 min with pre/post debrief everytime?

In my experience my effective “learning” flight time seems to depend on many things and some of my most productive lessons were over two hours of flight time.
I did best when I could measure my progress.
In my experience it depended a lot on the instructor and the particular thing we were working on.
If I did badly at something we would often move on to something else.
It also depended on how well I did and how much time I devoted to the training between flight lessons.
I found the clearer I was on the lesson, the environment and the reason for what we were doing the more comfortable I was flying and the more productive the flight time was.
I found the debrief particularly valuable and truncating it devalued the flight lesson for me.
I found I did best when I received around two hours of ground training for each hour of flight training.
I would preflight the aircraft for around 20 minutes and then discuss what we were going to do and why we were going to do it with emphasis on charts, ADM and completion standards.
The debrief consisted of a detailed critique of my flying, progress I was making and what we would focus on in the next lesson and why.
Homework was an important part of the process for me.
My traumatic brain injury and monocular vision undoubtedly slowed the learning process for me.
I feel it is a mistake to imagine one size (length of lesson) fits all.
I have flown with more than 20 flight instructors and their approach and my success varied wildly.
What I am describing is what worked best for me.

 

[winrose46]

I think the amount charged depends upon the area. Washington DC where I work is considered a high cost area and I would expect that a CFI would be more expensive than one in a rural area. I charge $50 for my time and that is just for the flying portion. I do not charge for ground school (pre and post flight). Some time I charge ($10) if the student has limited income such as a ramp employee. If I am charging time in my own plane, I add the gas cost to the rate. With 40 plus years in IT, I am using any fees I make to help offset my cost of flying and I am not trying to survive on my CFI income or to get a full time flying job. I just enjoy teaching and the feeling I get seeing my student solo is priceless.

 

[RussR]

But remember, the effective "learning" flight time for a student is anywhere from 0.7-1.2 hours. Are you really going to fill up 45-75 min with pre/post debrief everytime?

That varies widely. In the beginning, flights will be shorter because the student is so task-saturated that they will get worn out quickly. But that is offset by more discussion required about what we're going to do that day. Do your teaching on the ground, your practice in the air. As the student gains experience, they can fly longer and not get as tired simply because they're not having to use all their concentration every single minute just to keep the shiny side up.

And, yes, 45-75 minutes of pre/post brief is easy and effective/useful if you prepare. Maybe it's 20 or 30 minutes of pre-and post-brief, but also aerodynamics, or regulations, or navigation, or aircraft systems or something.

Now, I said it like it's a hard-and-fast rule, but there are always exceptions. The student had a bad day, completely exhausted or distracted or something and incapable of effectively learning anything else, yeah, maybe let's just call it a day after 1.5 hours or whatever. But in general, 2 hours is a good number and lets us get a lot done.

Thanks, Russ. I was looking for someone with experience charging for block time. It seems most people tend to think that they'll get 1.5 hours of instruction for a 2-hour cost. That would never be the case if I had anything to do with it.

Right. Students who come to me know they will get 2 hours of my devoted time, attention, and instruction. It's then my mission to make sure they feel it was VALUABLE time!

It's too bad we couldn't fly together in that Cherokee. I was looking forward to it.

Hey, if you ever get back down here, just let me know! (For others - the OP and I met almost completely by random on the ramp at Sundance Airport, OK (HSD), where I do a little instruction and he was flying in on a job. I went over to look at the 336/337 he was flying and we talked a bit. A couple days later he posted a very familiar story about his flight and the weather on here, and I put two and two together.)

I charge $50 for my time and that is just for the flying portion. I do not charge for ground school (pre and post flight).

That's your policy, and nothing wrong with it. However, understand that depending on how much pre, post, and ground school you do, you could effectively charge $30 or $40 an hour for all the time together and get to the same cost per lesson. You've just decided to roll that up into a larger number for flight time only, which I imagine makes accounting easier.

But do you mean you don't charge for "any" ground school? What about a 2-hour lesson on airspace or navigation?

Personally, as a student I prefer to pay the CFI for pre, post, and ground instruction time, not just flight time. It really is just as valuable, if not moreso than flight time, and I want to make sure the CFI doesn't skimp on it. If I'm paying for it, I'm going to make sure the CFI does a good job on the ground as well, and it's then a reasonable expectation to have. If I'm not paying for their time on the ground, then I really can't expect much, can I?