What is required to be insured to fly a KingAir C90 for Part91?

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PilotDoctor

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I heard I have to go through a training course that costs $30k. Is there another way?
 
BeechTalk may be a better place to ask this question.
 
What's your experience level? Personal use you're going to need something like 25 hours in type to get insured.
 
It is going to depend on what your insurer wants. These days many insurers do want you to attend a type specific school for most turboprops, just like is required for jets.

It seems to me that the insurance industry is doing a better job regulating safety than the FAA these days. Their requirements usually far exceed the FARs.
 
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midwestpa24 said:
It is going to depend on what your insurer wants. These days many insurers do want you to attend a type specific school for most turboprops, just like is required for jets.

It seems to me that the insurance industry is doing a better job regulating safety than the FAA these days. Their requirements usually far exceed the FARs.
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The FAA sets a minimum standard. Higher standards should be a goal.
 
If you are concerned about $30K initial training to fly a KA C90, you are going to dislike the annual training required by your insurer...if you can get insurance.

"What is your name? What is your quest? What is your favorite color?"
 
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I’ve often told people who are considering buying a single-engine plane that ownership is not for them if they can’t afford to write a $5,000 check following the next flight. I suspect that for a twin turbine that would be more like $50,000, maybe a hundred.
 
You should ask the question: what kind of training do I need to become a competent pilot operating this model and not to kill myself, family members or some random bystanders within the next 100 hours? In most cases the answer is: way more than the insurance requirements.

If the number 30k scares you and/or your bank teller - PT6A powered aircrafts are not for you. Period. The purchase price is always just the entrance fee. The spending starts from there. Part 91 with a turbine a/c is maintenancewise not the same like part 91 with a piston a/c
 
King Airs are an order of magnitude more complicated to learn to fly than your typical trainer piston twin. Heck, just the runup routine makes your brain melt the first few dozen times you do it. There are literally about 100 switches in the cockpit. Yes, some of them are lights and such, but there are overall just a lot of switches and levers and knobs that you need to learn about. All kinds of new systems and limitations that you haven't considered.

This is not insurmountable, obviously lots of people fly King Airs. But if you're struggling with a piston twin trainer, it would be valuable getting more experience before making that move.

There's a reason the insurers want more than the FAA requirements (which, for any King Air <300, is literally nothing, with a fresh multi rating and appropriate endorsements all in piston airplanes, you can buy one and go fly it home) - you don't yet know what you don't know.
 
midwestpa24 said:
It is going to depend on what your insurer wants. These days many insurers do want you to attend a type specific school for most turboprops, just like is required for jets.

It seems to me that the insurance industry is doing a better job regulating safety than the FAA these days. Their requirements usually far exceed the FARs.
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Well....that's how it should be. You don't want the gummint doing this stuff.... ;)
 
25 or more hours with a mentor pilot are pretty common in addition to flight safety or similar.

The 30K number seems off, but in a twin turbine, checks that size or more are not uncommon
 
That king air is several orders of magnitude EASIER than a big piston twin.

PT6s are cream puffs. Work good, last long time. No vices, not twitchy, not complicated… If it’s maintained well and dialed in, can’t kill it. I’ve never even had one not start easily and on the first try… first start of the year, or the 15th of the day in blistering heat. Just cranks up and says “let’s go!”

A big injected piston… I reckon I won the lottery every time it cranks…. I don’t even try sometimes when they’re hot… little princesses… yuck.

If you got a lot of time 25 hours with someone already on the insurance and you’re good to go. Lot of time being thousands and lots of alphabet soup. Less than a thousand no time in something similar probably just not gonna happen.

Mid time, lots of retract, some kerosene… prolly looking at an insurance recognized training program for the aforementioned 5 grand or so.
 
Sounds like a FlightSafety quote. See if SimCom might get you a better deal. It won’t be FFS, but it should still be insurance approved. My guess is you’ll land somewhere near 15k for initial.
 
PilotDoctor said:
I heard I have to go through a training course that costs $30k. Is there another way?
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To answer the question posed in the subject line: Money.

Yes, there are alternatives to FlightSafety/Simcom, but it depends on the insurer whether they'll recognize it, and chances are your insurance will just cost more if you do that. You're going to pay the piper, one way or another. I have seen a person with less than 500 hours get into a turboprop and get insurance, but it required both a sim course and an experienced right seat pilot for the first 100 hours, and the insurance policy alone cost well over $100,000 even with that.

In addition, there is a LOT of value in doing the FlightSafety/Simcom thing. You can do all of the emergency procedures "for real" - That is, it's basically impossible to do many emergency procedures in a turbine twin safely in the aircraft, even ones that can theoretically be done safely might be inadvisable from a maintenance/cost perspective.

ateamer said:
I’ve often told people who are considering buying a single-engine plane that ownership is not for them if they can’t afford to write a $5,000 check following the next flight. I suspect that for a twin turbine that would be more like $50,000, maybe a hundred.
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It's $100,000. And then you need to be able to do another $50,000 the following week. And even when everything's going right you're looking at anywhere from $300 to $800 per hour just in fuel on a C90.
 
Tools said:
That king air is several orders of magnitude EASIER than a big piston twin.

PT6s are cream puffs. Work good, last long time. No vices, not twitchy, not complicated… If it’s maintained well and dialed in, can’t kill it. I’ve never even had one not start easily and on the first try… first start of the year, or the 15th of the day in blistering heat. Just cranks up and says “let’s go!”
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They're easy, IF you know what you're doing. You can also buy yourself an overhaul in 5 seconds or less if you do things wrong. And depending on the aircraft, you may not be able to start back up right away in blistering heat.

Now, the newest aircraft where they have a PT-6E (FADEC), those are as easy as it gets. Shove the throttle forward to take off, pull it back some for landing, pull it back the rest of the way once you're down... And start it with the push of a button.

Tools said:
If you got a lot of time 25 hours with someone already on the insurance and you’re good to go. Lot of time being thousands and lots of alphabet soup. Less than a thousand no time in something similar probably just not gonna happen.
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Like I said, it can be done, but it requires a LOT of money, both for the policy (well into six figure territory) and to pay a trained and proficient contract pilot/instructor to sit in the other seat ($1000-$1500 per day).
 
robin ardoin said:
If you are concerned about $30K initial training to fly a KA C90, you are going to dislike the annual training required by your insurer...if you can get insurance.

"What is your name? What is your quest? What is your favorite color?"
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what is the average velocity of an unlaiden swallow?
 
African or European?
 
IMO, for what it’s worth, it’s not so much about the airplane as it is the type of flying the more complex airplanes do.

Going into ORD or LAX with a descend via, with speed restrictions (possibly outside of published) can be challenging even for a highly experienced pilot.
 
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