What is an emergency?

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warthog1984

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Serious question here.

I know the book definition, as well as obvious (structural failure, fire) and not-so-obvious (VFR into IMC, min fuel) emergencies.

However, I came across a youtube video where an otherwise-healthy CRJ declared an emergency due to failed flaps (Flaps 0, both fully retracted) and the crash truck was dutifully rolled out. This does not even cover the Cirrus chute deployments for dead engines and similar.

So, what actually IS an emergency anymore, and where is the limit?
 
warthog1984 said:
Serious question here.

I know the book definition, as well as obvious (structural failure, fire) and not-so-obvious (VFR into IMC, min fuel) emergencies.

However, I came across a youtube video where an otherwise-healthy CRJ declared an emergency due to failed flaps (Flaps 0, both fully retracted) and the crash truck was dutifully rolled out. This does not even cover the Cirrus chute deployments for dead engines and similar.

So, what actually IS an emergency anymore, and where is the limit?
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Part 121 crews are advised to go ahead and declare an emergency rather than second guess the situation. If the CRJ didn't declare, landed and went off the runway and destroyed the aircraft or injured someone, now you have a really bad situation. Having the fire truck standing by is good insurance.
 
I thought it boiled down to if its an incident or accident. One you report, one you do not. Loss of flap control with flaps at 0 I was taught was an incident and does not need to be reported to anyone except your A&P.

When flying my Legal Eagle Ultralight and the reduction unit and prop decided to go its own way. I called that an Emergency. In a Certified airplane this would have been a reportable accident.

I do not believe I would have called anyone or declared an emergency for failed flaps. I would have came in a little hot, for without flaps you are coming in hot on some airplanes.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
I thought it boiled down to if its an incident or accident. One you report, one you do not. Loss of flap control with flaps at 0 I was taught was an incident and does not need to be reported to anyone except your A&P.

When flying my Legal Eagle Ultralight and the reduction unit and prop decided to go its own way. I called that an Emergency. In a Certified airplane this would have been a reportable accident.

I do not believe I would have called anyone or declared an emergency for failed flaps. I would have came in a little hot, for without flaps you are coming in hot on some airplanes.

Tony
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It's a bit of a stretch comparing an ultralight to a regional jet.

If the approach speed increase also increases the tire speed and necessary braking, increasing the possibility of a tire blowout or brake fire, then yeah, an emergency declaration is reasonable. It doesn't cost anybody anything, so why not?
 
Rolling the firetruck will be most excitement the airport had all month and you want to deprive them?
 
almost all situations provide FAR relief (no violation on your ticket) if an emergency is declared prior.

A guy IFR with two (but not three) green on the gear down who tells ATC "we are working on a gear situation, may we have vectors to ABC airport" but enroute to that airport, busts an assigned altitude, could be violated. If he declares an emergency however once he detects a possible gear problem, he is good to go.

Etc similar situations
 
1600vw said:
I thought it boiled down to if its an incident or accident.
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An incident or accident is an outcome; an emergency is a situation. If the pilot is concerned about safety of flight and foresees the possible need for assistance, it's an emergency whether it ends in an accident, incident, or nothing.
When flying my Legal Eagle Ultralight and the reduction unit and prop decided to go its own way. I called that an Emergency.
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Makes sense to me -- I'm sure you were seriously concerned about the safe conclusion of the flight.
In a Certified airplane this would have been a reportable accident.
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That might or might not be true, depending on the outcome of the landing, but it would result in some sort of report such as an SDR or MDR even if no further damage resulted.

I do not believe I would have called anyone or declared an emergency for failed flaps. I would have came in a little hot, for without flaps you are coming in hot on some airplanes.
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In your plane, flap failure to extend would not be cause for any significant concern about safely concluding the flight. In a CRJ, it would be unless you had the Rogers Dry Lake on which to land. The greatly increased landing speed and other systems issues mean that an overrun or blown tire or hot brakes could all be possible outcomes, and that's cause for concern about safety -- thus, an emergency.
 
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I declare with ATC when my situation will either require them to adjust their traffic or I need additional assistance.

If the EP requires LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE then I'm declaring; unless I'm in a position where I can't even contact them. There are some EPs that require only LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICAL. Most of those would be useless to declare since the situation isn't going to develop into something bigger and won't affect my destination. There are a few LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICAL EPs (hydraulics fail / smoke in cockpit) that I would declare because it would affect my destination.

I always err on the side of caution especially if I'm flying for work. You can bet the company is going to sharp shoot a pilot's decision making if they withhold declaring when additional services from ATC were required.
 
Ron Levy said:
An incident or accident is an outcome; an emergency is a situation. If the pilot is concerned about safety of flight and foresees the possible need for assistance, it's an emergency whether it ends in an accident, incident, or nothing.
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I witnessed an example at Oakland, during a CAP exercise.

Five fire trucks lined 28R, at both ends. 5 minutes later, a small jet with two tail mounted engines (Citation?) arrives and the nose gear looks a little out of whack while on approach. It lands successfully, and all gear holds the weight of the aircraft. It does, however, need to be towed off the runway, presumably after pins have been installed (rumors are, the nose gear failed to indicate locked). All but one fire truck leaves the scene. The remaining one follows the tow off the runway and to one of the North Field FBOs.

No accident, it probably was an incident, and it was definitely an emergency. It could have ended in a flaming ball of jet fuel.

As for the flap failure to deploy flaps, in any aircraft, that is reportable to NTSB. 49 CFR 830.5(a)(1). Whether you declare an emergency depends on the aircraft. I had this discussion recently with a local FBO over a runaway electric trim (nose down, that was reported to occur with power reduction -- not hard to see how that could end badly), along with one about airworthiness and the importance of actually disabling the faulty equipment.
 
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MAKG1 said:
As for the flap failure to deploy flaps, in any aircraft, that is reportable to NTSB. 49 CFR 830.5(a)(1).
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§830.5 Immediate notification.
The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur:
(1) Flight control system malfunction or failure;
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I don't think the flaps are considered part of the flight control system for this purpose, but I could be wrong.
 
I was taught that an emergency is any situation, resulting from any reason or cause, in which the PIC is not confident in their own or the aircraft's ability to safely and successfully complete the flight without the requested accommodation. That's probably simplistic, but it works for me.

-Rich
 
an emergency can have nothing to do with the aircraft itself, by the way
 
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B350ATP said:
an emergency can have nothing to do with the aircraft itself, by the way
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Of course.

A heart attack in the back seat is a serious emergency with a perfectly functioning aircraft and crew.

And a perfect reason to ask for priority handling and emergency services on the field.
 
1600vw said:
I thought it boiled down to if its an incident or accident. One you report, one you do not. Loss of flap control with flaps at 0 I was taught was an incident and does not need to be reported to anyone except your A&P.

When flying my Legal Eagle Ultralight and the reduction unit and prop decided to go its own way. I called that an Emergency. In a Certified airplane this would have been a reportable accident.

I do not believe I would have called anyone or declared an emergency for failed flaps. I would have came in a little hot, for without flaps you are coming in hot on some airplanes.

Tony
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An emergency doesn't have to have a result yet, you're thinking about accident reporting.

An Emergency is any time or condition that causes you as PIC to question the safe outcome of a flight..
 
It's like the old story of the Air Force fighter who calls the tower for landing, and is told to hold for a B-52 with an engine failure.

"Ah," says the fighter jock. "The dreaded seven-engine approach."

As far as I know, there's no downside to formally declaring an emergency unless you got into trouble being a bad boy to start with. It just gives you preferential handling, and "the equipment" standing by if the worst happens.

Ron Wanttaja
 
The OP said he knows the book definition, but I'll post it anyway, for the benefit of anyone who might not.

The FAA says there are two kinds of emergency. These are "distress," and "urgency."

EMERGENCY− A distress or an urgency condition.

DISTRESS− A condition of being threatened by
serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring
immediate assistance.

URGENCY− A condition of being concerned about
safety and of requiring timely but not immediate
assistance; a potential distress condition.
(See ICAO term URGENCY.)

URGENCY [ICAO]− A condition concerning the
safety of an aircraft or other vehicle, or of person on
board or in sight, but which does not require
immediate assistance.​

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/PCG/Index.htm

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/PCG_4-03-14.pdf
 
Any time the safe outcome of the flight is in question THAT is an emergency.

IMO a CRJ flap failure is not an emergency in itself. Crews train the procedure and the books give performance for it. Safe outcome is not in doubt, ergo...not an emergency.

Now, if the flaps are asymmetrical, or performance for selected runway isn't there then you are back into 'safe outcome of flight in doubt' land and declaring is appropriate.
 
warthog1984 said:
Serious question here.

I know the book definition, as well as obvious (structural failure, fire) and not-so-obvious (VFR into IMC, min fuel) emergencies.

However, I came across a youtube video where an otherwise-healthy CRJ declared an emergency due to failed flaps (Flaps 0, both fully retracted) and the crash truck was dutifully rolled out. This does not even cover the Cirrus chute deployments for dead engines and similar.

So, what actually IS an emergency anymore, and where is the limit?
Click to expand...

An emergency near an airfield (ATC controlled especially) is anything where you want priority to land. But be prepared to explain when the trucks and emergency response is sent out.

An emergency away from an airfield is something you will share with ATC or 121.5 and be prepared to see emergency response on the ground, or when you eventually land.
 
Captain said:
Any time the safe outcome of the flight is in question THAT is an emergency.

IMO a CRJ flap failure is not an emergency in itself. Crews train the procedure and the books give performance for it. Safe outcome is not in doubt, ergo...not an emergency.
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I don't know anything about the CRJ, so I'll defer to you on that, but on the stuff I've flown, a no-flap landing will have have me screaming over the numbers at 200+ knots. Now like you said, I practice this in the sim regularly and we have numbers for it, but eff that man - I'm gonna declare. :)

I can't think of any downside to declaring in a 121 environment, even if it's a little on the cautious side. I've done it twice in my airline career, and neither time did I even get a phone call about it. Just gotta remember to keep the pax and F/As in the loop - those fire and rescue guys love nothing more than roll every damned truck on the property!
 
As far as dealing with ATC, I consider it an emergency if I require any special or priority handling.

There is a book out there with a title along the lines of 'everything you need to know about everything airplane' that suggests never using the E word. Instead the author suggests engaging in a game of 20 questions with ATC when you have an emergency in order to gain priority handling without being unmanly. Or something. :no:

That is the stupidest aviation suggestion I've ever read!!!!

If you are not in the USA you can use 'PAN PAN PAN' if you are worried, or 'MAYDAY' if you're really scared. The words 'declaring an emergency' are undefined by ICAO.

Here in the USA the reality is that 'declaring an emergency' is the same as 'PAN', and 'Mayday' still means 'I'm really scared! :yikes:'.
 
Rich, you just described my first 10 solo flights! :D

RJM62 said:
I was taught that an emergency is any situation, resulting from any reason or cause, in which the PIC is not confident in their own or the aircraft's ability to safely and successfully complete the flight without the requested accommodation. That's probably simplistic, but it works for me.

-Rich
Click to expand...
 
JimNtexas said:
As far as dealing with ATC, I consider it an emergency if I require any special or priority handling.
Click to expand...
At that point, it's probably a "distress" condition. However, prior to the point of requiring special/priority handling, you might foresee the likelihood of needing such handling, and that is by the FAA book an "urgency" situation. While "distress" is an "emergency" situation, so is "urgency", and thus you probably had what the FAA would define as an "emergency" well before it became a "distress" condition.


If you are not in the USA you can use 'PAN PAN PAN' if you are worried, or 'MAYDAY' if you're really scared.
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You don't have to be outside the USA to use "PAN-PAN-PAN" -- it's in the book here, too, for an "urgency" condition, with "MAYDAY" reserved for a "distress" condition. Check the Pilot/Controller glossary for details on all five words (urgency, distress, emergency, Mayday, Pan).
 
JimNtexas said:
If you are not in the USA you can use 'PAN PAN PAN' if you are worried, or 'MAYDAY' if you're really scared. The words 'declaring an emergency' are undefined by ICAO.

Here in the USA the reality is that 'declaring an emergency' is the same as 'PAN', and 'Mayday' still means 'I'm really scared! :yikes:'.
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ICAO Air Traffic Management manual 4444, Paragraph/Section 15.1.1.2, states

15.1.1.2 When an emergency is declared by an aircraft,
the ATS unit should take appropriate and relevant action as
follows:
a) unless clearly stated by the flight crew or otherwise
known, take all necessary steps to ascertain aircraft
identification and type, the type of emergency, the
intentions of the flight crew as well as the position and
level of the aircraft;
b) decide upon the most appropriate type of assistance
which can be rendered;
c) enlist the aid of any other ATS unit or other services
which may be able to provide assistance to the aircraft;
d) provide the flight crew with any information requested
as well as any additional relevant information, such as
details on suitable aerodromes, minimum safe altitudes, weather information
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Bottom line, if safety of you, the plane, pax, or all of the above, is in question, declare. Avianca 52 is a reminder of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52
 
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B350ATP said:
ICAO Air Traffic Management manual 4444, Paragraph/Section 15.1.1.2, states



Bottom line, if safety of you, the plane, pax, or all of the above, is in question, declare. Avianca 52 is a reminder of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52
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Not pax. If a required flight crew member has a heart attack that is an emergency. If a pax has a heart attack it is not. It's reason to divert. It's a reason to have an ambulance meet you. But it's not a reason to declare an emergency. At least not for any 121 or 135 company I've ever flown for.
 
Airlines can obviously have their own rules, but I don't see anything in the Pilot/Controller Glossary that says a passenger in distress is not an emergency.
 
Captain said:
Not pax. If a required flight crew member has a heart attack that is an emergency. If a pax has a heart attack it is not. It's reason to divert. It's a reason to have an ambulance meet you. But it's not a reason to declare an emergency. At least not for any 121 or 135 company I've ever flown for.
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That's surprising to me. Not declaring an emergency in that situation could bite an airline right in the elevator if the passenger were to die. The family's lawyer could sue for wrongful death, alleging that the PIC's failure to declare an emergency contributed to the passenger's demise.

It would be nonsense, of course, but juries swallow nonsense all the time.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
That's surprising to me. Not declaring an emergency in that situation could bite an airline right in the elevator if the passenger were to die. The family's lawyer could sue for wrongful death, alleging that the PIC's failure to declare an emergency contributed to the passenger's demise.

It would be nonsense, of course, but juries swallow nonsense all the time.

-Rich
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Ah yes, let's live in fear of the lawyers......:rolleyes:
 
Captain said:
Not pax. If a required flight crew member has a heart attack that is an emergency. If a pax has a heart attack it is not. It's reason to divert. It's a reason to have an ambulance meet you. But it's not a reason to declare an emergency. At least not for any 121 or 135 company I've ever flown for.
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So, while you're diverting, it's perfectly acceptable for Center to hold you because of the abrupt flight plan change and intervening traffic?

Seems to me you would want expedited treatment as well. That's what declaring an emergency does. Get the other traffic out of the way and land as expeditiously as possible.
 
Ron Levy said:
At that point, it's probably a "distress" condition. ...
You don't have to be outside the USA to use "PAN-PAN-PAN" -- it's in the book here, too, for an "urgency" condition, with "MAYDAY" reserved for a "distress" condition. Check the Pilot/Controller glossary for details on all five words (urgency, distress, emergency, Mayday, Pan).
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That's all true of course, but Ron, I live in the real world. Do you really thing that if I say "N1234 is in distress" that the controller will even grok what you're trying to say?

I'm in 'distress' a lot because I have a small bladder, but so far I haven't had to tell the controller about it.

The controller has probably heard of 'PAN PAN PAN', but that's going to sound weird at first and the controller will immediately declare an emergency for you anyway.

When flying in the actual USA ATC system 'emergency' and 'Mayday' are the only words that will unambiguously convey the message you want to send to the receiver in ATC.

See, I'm starting to get that FOI handbook ;).

On another note, for those who have a passenger with a heart attack but fear being smote by the FAA Chief Counsel, you could just tell ATC that you are now "Lifeguard BigAirline Flight 1234", and you'll get priority handling.

In fact, when I was flying Angel Flights during Katrina and Rita I heard several airliners doing just that.
 
SoloEqs said:
Flaps modify lift, and their use may change aircraft attitude. Sounds like control surfaces to me.
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Just playing devil's advocate, but what about speed brakes? They fit your definition as well.
 
JimNtexas said:
...The controller has probably heard of 'PAN PAN PAN', but that's going to sound weird at first and the controller will immediately declare an emergency for you anyway...
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Based on what it says in the Pilot/Controller Glossary, it seems to me that saying PAN-PAN is an emergency declaration.
 
MAKG1 said:
So, while you're diverting, it's perfectly acceptable for Center to hold you because of the abrupt flight plan change and intervening traffic?

Seems to me you would want expedited treatment as well. That's what declaring an emergency does. Get the other traffic out of the way and land as expeditiously as possible.
Click to expand...

It's also worth noting that the AIM discussion on lost com points out that whether an emergency exist is a determination made by the pilot. I can't think of a reason why that principle would not apply to other situations as well. If a passenger has urgent need of medical assistance, I can't imagine the FAA second-guessing the pilot for declaring an emergency.
 
Regarding flaps as flight controls:

NTSB requires reporting of "flight control system malfunction or failure" (49 CFR 830.5)
FAA defines "primary flight controls" as aileron, elevators, and rudder, and "secondary flight controls" as flaps, leading edge devices, spoilers, and trim (PHAK chapter 5, page 5-2).

Since the NTSB does not differentiate between "primary" and "secondary" flight controls, it seems that a flap failure would indeed require a report.

Also, nitpicking, but it's not "PAN PAN PAN", it's "PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN" (AIM 6-3-1). Not that it's going to make any difference.
 
If someone is having a heart attack in the back, you better believe I'll declare and get the airplane down on the first piece of pavement with medical personnel readily available (as safely as possible, of course). For the record, my manual says this:

When to Declare an Emergency.

Declare an emergency when in a distress condition and/or
— a flight cannot definitely establish its position
— aircraft component failure jeopardizes flight safety — an aircraft is endangered by fire
• Note •
Any fire or indication of fire constitutes an emergency.

— in-flight medical emergency requiring a diversion
— the remaining fuel supply suggests the need for traffic priority to ensure a
safe landing
— engine failure
— any contingency jeopardizing flight safety
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Airlines declare passenger medical emergencies all the time. Passenger illness is treated as an emergency in Ch10 of the .65. You might might not declare but if you inform ATC you have a possible heart attack on board, I'd say that would fall under illness. ATC might handle it as an emergency with or without your declaration.

Makes no sense not to declare with a medical emergency anyway. Time and medical attention is critical for a lot of medical emergencies. That's the whole reason why we get priority in HEMS. A normal passenger carrying flight should want that same type of priority for a serious illness.
 
Captain said:
Not pax. If a required flight crew member has a heart attack that is an emergency. If a pax has a heart attack it is not. It's reason to divert. It's a reason to have an ambulance meet you. But it's not a reason to declare an emergency. At least not for any 121 or 135 company I've ever flown for.
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Ok, good luck with that.

PIC can declare an emergency based on his judgement and discretion. A heart attack (your example, not mine) is a medical emergency, whether it happens on the plane, a boat, or on land.

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/heart-attack-symptoms-emergency

A heart attack usually occurs when there is blockage in one of the heart's arteries. This is an emergency that can cause death.
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http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hear...atments/conditions/myocardial_infarction.html

A myocardial infarction, commonly known as a heart attack, is a medical emergency that occurs when a portion of the heart is deprived of oxygen because of blockage of one of the coronary arteries, which supply the heart muscle (myocardium) with blood.
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Tell you what. I am declaring an emergency when my PAX has a heart attack. You decide to not declare and request "priority" handling or whatever you call it. Lets see who fares better in civil court when the lawsuit happens.

Good Luck

oh, and by the way:

http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2013/11/american-airlines-passenger-dies-of-heart-attack/

The American Airlines passenger, George Arthur Lanzidelle of 55 years old, died of a heart attack aboard Dallas-Lima flight, which had to make an emergency landing in Cancun’s airport.
American Airlines



The flight 980 landed at 19: 40hrs on Sunday, after requesting permission to make an emergency landing in Cancun, to aid a passenger who was feeling sick
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Captain said:
Not pax. If a required flight crew member has a heart attack that is an emergency. If a pax has a heart attack it is not.
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Yes, it is. Life is at stake, and time is critical. It is most definitely a condition where life is "threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring immediate assistance". That's a distress condition and a "Mayday" in the FAA's book. The precise term to be used to describe the situation to ATC is "medical emergency".
 
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