What do if airborne during nuclear war

cowman

cowman

Final Approach
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Cowman
No, I don't expect this to be a thing that ever happens but it's an interesting thing to think about.

Suppose I'm out in a typical single engine piston aircraft cruising along at a typical altitude... 4000-8000' or so. Suddenly I see a flash nearby but, presumably, far enough that survival is still possible.
What can I do to maximize my chance of survival? I'm thinking turn away immediately and go to full power in hopes that I can get far enough away for the pressure wave to slow down to something that won't cause structural damage. Now I could push the nose down for more speed but presumably the blast is expanding up and out from the detonation point so I might be descending into it at the same time. A climb would be the opposite dilemma... less speed but I'd be climbing away. Also, again presumably, flying away from the blast would reduce the relative impact of the pressure wave right? But when it hits would it potentially cause a stall and possibly a subsequent spin from the turbulence?

(yes I'm bored and drinking, discuss anyway).
 
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When you say "nearby" how near are we talking? You could be blinded if you're too close, if that happens well...

Assuming you weren't blinded and far away enough to not be affected by the blast...I'd b-line it 180 away from the blast and hope for the best.

And pray you're not in a C152. :)

 
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Back in the "duck and cover" 1950s one of my high school teachers had to deal with all sorts of nuclear fall out scenarios for his National Guard classes (working for a promotion.) He had me and my math club buddies work out the answers (he taught shorthand for heavens sake and was totally clueless doing math.)

I came away thinking survival was possible if you survived the initial explosion -- or maybe the exercises were merely intended to keep up morale in a hopeless situation.

Yes, I did take shorthand -- to sit next to a very attractive girl that I managed to marry while in High School. And I'm still sitting by her 55 years later.
 
cowman said:
No, I don't expect this to be a thing that ever happens...
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Why do you say that? We are closer now to this destruction than we have been in decades. There is a reason you are thinking about this while you are drinking.
 
Tsar Bomba Wiki Page
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

"Both aircraft were painted with a special reflective white paint to limit heat damage. Despite this effort, Durnovtsev and his crew were assigned only a 50% chance of surviving the test."

"The bomb was attached to an 800-kilogram parachute, which gave the release and observer planes time to fly about 45 kilometres (28 mi) away from ground zero When detonation occurred, the Tu-95V dropped one kilometer in the air because of the shock wave but was able to land safely."

The bomb was dropped from 35,000 feet.
 
Dav8or said:
Why do you say that? We are closer now to this destruction than we have been in decades. There is a reason you are thinking about this while you are drinking.
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I don't live in Guam.. also not to get political but I expect our doom is more likely to come from angry idiots marching around with signs.


overdrive148 said:
Tsar Bomba Wiki Page
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

"Both aircraft were painted with a special reflective white paint to limit heat damage. Despite this effort, Durnovtsev and his crew were assigned only a 50% chance of surviving the test."

"The bomb was attached to an 800-kilogram parachute, which gave the release and observer planes time to fly about 45 kilometres (28 mi) away from ground zero When detonation occurred, the Tu-95V dropped one kilometer in the air because of the shock wave but was able to land safely."

The bomb was dropped from 35,000 feet.
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So.... my FAA approved white paint is gonna protect me then right?
 
If there is actually room in this thread for response to the physics of the question,
I'm thinking maneuvering speed might be best for anything that sounds like 'blast' or 'pressure wave'.
No one is going to outrun any of this.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If there is actually room in this thread for response to the physics of the question,
I'm thinking maneuvering speed might be best for anything that sounds like 'blast' or 'pressure wave'.
No one is going to outrun any of this.
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No you're not going to outrun it but blast takes some time... maybe a couple of minutes to cover a 10-20 mile distance and in that time you could increase your distance by a few miles before it hits. It's going to be weaker the farther away you get and maybe if it's moving at 400mph(I have no realistic idea of how fast it really is) and maybe if you are moving away at 150mph then the relative impact is down to 350mph?

I guess to do physics we need to pick a likely device and distance from ground zero. We know modern nukes are more powerful than the old fat man/little boy bombs but also significantly less powerful than tsar bomba.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If there is actually room in this thread for response to the physics of the question,
I'm thinking maneuvering speed might be best for anything that sounds like 'blast' or 'pressure wave'.
No one is going to outrun any of this.
Click to expand...
Okay, so if I'm cruising at 8,000' and I look over to my 11 o'clock and see a nuke coming right for me, what would the proper anti-collision maneuver be?
 
cowman said:
maybe a couple of minutes to cover a 10-20 mile distance
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nuclear blast travels about 600mph so if you are 20mi away it will reach you in 2 minutes. At 180mph you could increase your distance to 26mi

probably does not account for distance from the center, probably less
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
nuclear blast travels about 600mph so if you are 20mi away it will reach you in 2 minutes. At 180mph you could increase your distance to 26mi
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But will the nuclear blast still be traveling 600mph once it reaches 60mi? It isn't going to travel at a constant rate and just stop it will dissipate over time and distance right? I don't think this is a linear equation.

unsafervguy said:
But would the emp fry your mags and make the engine quit?

Bob
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I don't think mags are vulnerable to EMP... so finally a good thing about mags I guess.
 
Not my area of study, but I would think since a mag relies on magnetic fields to work a large emp could screw them up royally.
 
cowman said:
Suppose I'm out in a typical single engine piston aircraft cruising along at a typical altitude... 4000-8000' or so. Suddenly I see a flash nearby but, presumably, far enough that survival is still possible.
What can I do to maximize my chance of survival?
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Check your NOTAMs before you depart. They will issue an FDC NOTAM, entirely in capital letters of course, advising what you must do.
 
If you can see the blast, the secondary radiation caused by gamma and other high speed particles passing through the skin of your airplane will kill you in a few weeks anyway.
You might as well fly the forbidden maneuvers on you placards and get it over with.
 
I grew up down the street from LTC Kermit Behann who participated in both nuclear attacks on Japan and was the bombardier on the second...his kids were my age and worked with my dad at NASA....he was a quiet man but probably one of two or three people that have flown in the proximity to two blasts...at a tender age I asked him how was the ride...and his response was "not as bad as you would expect" He never did interviews and for all the times I was around him he never talked about his service...my question even caught him off guard ( I think I was 10 at the time) and was the last time as it was apparent that the subject was off limits...we all knew but in the end it took a toll on him...
 
cowman said:
No you're not going to outrun it but blast takes some time... maybe a couple of minutes to cover a 10-20 mile distance and in that time you could increase your distance by a few miles before it hits. It's going to be weaker the farther away you get and maybe if it's moving at 400mph(I have no realistic idea of how fast it really is) and maybe if you are moving away at 150mph then the relative impact is down to 350mph?

I guess to do physics we need to pick a likely device and distance from ground zero. We know modern nukes are more powerful than the old fat man/little boy bombs but also significantly less powerful than tsar bomba.
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A 400 mph wind shear is either going to rip you apart or stall you out of the sky depending on which way you are headed. I think I'd get it on the ground.
 
Ryanb said:
Okay, so if I'm cruising at 8,000' and I look over to my 11 o'clock and see a nuke coming right for me, what would the proper anti-collision maneuver be?
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I would say to give way to nuclear devices at all times!
 
Answer would be "it depends" on a lot of variables you didn't mention and I don't know how to account for. In general, the effect decrease geometrically with distance. That's every effect, from EMP to turbulent blast wave to radiation. How much it impacts you depends on how powerful the device was, how high up it was dropped, terrain between you and it, whether or not your magnetos are in a metal case or a plastic case, etc.
 
Ryanb said:
Okay, so if I'm cruising at 8,000' and I look over to my 11 o'clock and see a nuke coming right for me, what would the proper anti-collision maneuver be?
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JAWS said:
I would say to give way to nuclear devices at all times!
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No. You take one for the team. You'll be dead anyway, but at least less people on the ground will die.
 
Ok, again revisiting the initial premise.... we know that within a certain distance there's no hope for survival and beyond a certain distance survival is nearly guaranteed. The actual question dealt with the place in between where neither outcome was certain(the danger zone).... in other words what's the optimal maneuver to give one's self the best chances?
 
I say fly perpendicular to the blast so you had a much smaller footprint with relative to the oncoming Force
 
Keep a close eye on your AOA. If you follow the blue donut properly it is a non event. It only if you buy one by September 1st. So hurry up and get your AOA from you know who at you know where
 
If your close enough and there is a neighbor whose been pizzin you off, Kamakazie his house.
 
Ryanb said:
Okay, so if I'm cruising at 8,000' and I look over to my 11 o'clock and see a nuke coming right for me, what would the proper anti-collision maneuver be?
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About 10* turn to the left? I would think that if you can see it at 11:00, the closure rate would be quick enough that you wouldn't have time to think of your a$$ so you could poop yer pants.
 
I suspect that were I airborne during the detonation of a fission or fusion device my last worry would be what to do with the aircraft...
 
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