What about an HSI?

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
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My KI-202 went TU, now I'm faced with buying a new one. It's a seemingly minor issue but due to what i can only assume is Bendix King trying to price themselves into bankruptcy, it's very expensive to fix. I'm wondering what it takes to replace it with an HSI? Like if I have the HSI in my hand and a hole and wiring where a KI202 used to be, what else do I need?
 
bartmc said:
My KI-202 went TU, now I'm faced with buying a new one. It's a seemingly minor issue but due to what i can only assume is Bendix King trying to price themselves into bankruptcy, it's very expensive to fix. I'm wondering what it takes to replace it with an HSI? Like if I have the HSI in my hand and a hole and wiring where a KI202 used to be, what else do I need?
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A fat wallet, and a new wire harness and a KX165 to drive it.
 
You'd need the remote gyro and slaving accessory.

They are getting nearly reasonable in price, but install could be the problem. It is not trivial.
 
SCCutler said:
You'd need the remote gyro and slaving accessory.

They are getting nearly reasonable in price, but install could be the problem. It is not trivial.
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Got ya, I'm about to replace my DG too, so I didn't know if I could buy "the right one" and use that or something. I know next to zero about the magic going on behind the panel in an HSI.
 
bartmc said:
My KI-202 went TU, now I'm faced with buying a new one. It's a seemingly minor issue but due to what i can only assume is Bendix King trying to price themselves into bankruptcy, it's very expensive to fix. I'm wondering what it takes to replace it with an HSI? Like if I have the HSI in my hand and a hole and wiring where a KI202 used to be, what else do I need?
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A used KCS-55 in good shape can be a pretty good deal at the right price.
And I don't see any problem interfacing with a KN53 and I know it will work with a KLN89B as that's what was connected to my HSI when I had both installed.
 
No, you don't need a remote gyro or slaving if you get the NSD-360 unslaved vacuum HSI. My current trainee has one, and it works fine for half the cost of an electric slaved unit like the KCS-55.
http://www.bennettavionics.com/nsd360a.html

Yes, you can get a switch to alternate between #1 VOR and GPS if you have both.

No, you don't need a new KX-165 to drive an HSI -- any old VOR (including your existing KN-53) can do that.
 
You sound like a prime candidate for an HSI upgrade. If you're looking at needing to replace a CDI and a DG, then why not? It'll give you a nicer panel that is more functional for IFR.

About 90% of my time is in planes with HSIs. There's a reason why all the big guys have them - they're better. It makes approaches simpler, and it is a more logical layout than having a CDI and a DG separate.

There are a lot of different options out there. The Aztec has a Century unit in it similar to the one that Ron linked to, although electric. I've been very happy with its performance. In the 310 we recently upgraded the defunct Collins units (so old the avionics shop said that they hadn't seen units like that since dinosaurs roamed the earth) to an Aspen EFD1000Pro. I would definitely recommend that if the budget will allow, although the unit itself is $10,000 plus install. But any HSI will be a big improvement.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
You sound like a prime candidate for an HSI upgrade. If you're looking at needing to replace a CDI and a DG, then why not? It'll give you a nicer panel that is more functional for IFR.

About 90% of my time is in planes with HSIs. There's a reason why all the big guys have them - they're better. It makes approaches simpler, and it is a more logical layout than having a CDI and a DG separate.

There are a lot of different options out there. The Aztec has a Century unit in it similar to the one that Ron linked to, although electric. I've been very happy with its performance. In the 310 we recently upgraded the defunct Collins units (so old the avionics shop said that they hadn't seen units like that since dinosaurs roamed the earth) to an Aspen EFD1000Pro. I would definitely recommend that if the budget will allow, although the unit itself is $10,000 plus install. But any HSI will be a big improvement.
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Don't price jump me too much. I fly a 50 year old Cherokee 150. While a fine fine bird, Not sure I can put over half the hull value in one piece of equipment.
 
bartmc said:
Don't price jump me too much. I fly a 50 year old Cherokee 150. While a fine fine bird, Not sure I can put over half the hull value in one piece of equipment.
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Then something like what Ron listed is probably going to be your best bet. :)
 
Ron Levy said:
No, you don't need a new KX-165 to drive an HSI -- any old VOR (including your existing KN-53) can do that.
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Point being the 155 won't drive the HSI, but the 165 would fit his rack. might save a few cents.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
I meant to type KN77.

I'm not sure if the KN72 would work with a KX155 (off hand I think it would).
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I was told I needed it to wire the KN53 to the Non-Vor/Loc converter KI202 and switch it with my KLN89B. Was told either a KN77 or KN72 would work that the KN72 is just and updated version of the KN77. Not sure how true that was but it was 20 bucks.
 
KGRUBER is correct. A KX155 will NOT drive an HSI (nor any of the straight VOR heads other than the KI209.

However the OP says he has a KI-202 and in that case whatever he has driving it will drive the HSI fine
 
flyingron said:
KGRUBER is correct. A KX155 will NOT drive an HSI (nor any of the straight VOR heads other than the KI209.

However the OP says he has a KI-202 and in that case whatever he has driving it will drive the HSI fine
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Which would be a KLN89B and/or a KN53 (Via the annunciator panel) connected through a KN72.
 
Ron Levy said:
How do you figure that?
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Because with out some sort of interface it has no VOR converter.

What Karl said above.

It can be with a lot more bucks, and added weight, but as a stand alone .... NO.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
But you could run a KX155 with a KN77 VOR Converter to the HSI.

Of course the downside is more weight and wires.
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Yep, you can load this system up with a lot of add on boxes, and a rat's nest of wire harnesses, all subject to failure at the most needed time.
 
Tom-D said:
Yep, you can load this system up with a lot of add on boxes, and a rat's nest of wire harnesses, all subject to failure at the most needed time.
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While there is a little more wiring (a single wire video feed plus a LOC energize signal and of course power & ground are hardly a rat's nest). There is more weight and you have to find a place to mount the extra box but I doubt there's a measurable difference in reliability between the KX155+KN72 and a KX165. Either one has about the same total amount of circuitry, the chief difference being one extra power supply in the KN72.
 
bartmc said:
My KI-202 went TU, now I'm faced with buying a new one. It's a seemingly minor issue but due to what i can only assume is Bendix King trying to price themselves into bankruptcy, it's very expensive to fix. I'm wondering what it takes to replace it with an HSI? Like if I have the HSI in my hand and a hole and wiring where a KI202 used to be, what else do I need?
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About $10,000 of stuff & installation for the King system. There's the gyro unit as well and the flux gate that goes with most of these systems. There are some units around for $2500 that are unslaved and pneumatic.
 
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At $10K for an HSI you're starting to hit price points where an Aspen or other digital display starts to make sense, I would think.
 
bartmc said:
Got ya, I'm about to replace my DG too, so I didn't know if I could buy "the right one" and use that or something. I know next to zero about the magic going on behind the panel in an HSI.
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All you need to know if you are going to do an HSI is that for anything but the NSD 360, you're gonna be cheaper off putting in an Aspen. If you put in the KCS 55 system and plan to own the plane more than 5 years, you'll likely be cheaper off putting in a G-500.

Installing a mechanical HSI now is just insanity.
 
If you think repairing a vor head is expensive, price a repair on an hsi. I have seen breathtaking prices.
I'd just replace your gauges with used ones.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If you think repairing a vor head is expensive, price a repair on an hsi. I have seen breathtaking prices.
I'd just replace your gauges with used ones.
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This may end up being the most logical answer.

But it sure is fun to spend someone else's money! :D
 
A freind of mine has every latest, greatest box in his Bonanza know to man, and the last one he'd give up his the Sandel HSI.
 
Sandel's were available when I redid my panel but you'll find other than the indicator, you've got just as much mechanical and other related junk (remote gyro, flux gate, etc...) behind he scenes there. Aspen and Garmin hadn't come out with their aftermarket solutions yet. I've got a KING KCS55. Yeah, it's antique compared to everything else in my panel and frankly in the age of GPS it's kind of silly. I spend more time watching the moving maps.

But I agree, much as I like my autopilot, it's no big thing if it goes out, but you can have my moving map for IFR when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.
 
Henning said:
All you need to know if you are going to do an HSI is that for anything but the NSD 360, you're gonna be cheaper off putting in an Aspen. If you put in the KCS 55 system and plan to own the plane more than 5 years, you'll likely be cheaper off putting in a G-500.

Installing a mechanical HSI now is just insanity.
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So we just went from replacing a KI-202 to a G-500? :D In a 1963 PA28? :hairraise: (Though I did see an all glass Cessna 150 when I dropped it off at the Avionics shop :confused: )

New KI-202 ordered from SEA Avionics, who gave me a killer deal on an overhauled unit.
 
Something you may want to consider is an Aera or 496 on the Yoke. It has an HSI display and an arc display with glide slope bar across. It works better than a regular HSI and there is no need to slave. Because it shows a ground track instead of a heading it is more accurate and easier to compensate for cross winds on approach than a regualr HSI. There is no need for vacuum and in an emergency it can work on internal battery. It is also less expensive than a regular HSI. Strongly recommend it.

José
 

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Piloto said:
Something you may want to consider is an Aera or 496 on the Yoke. It has an HSI display and an arc display with glide slope bar across. It works better than a regular HSI and there is no need to slave. Because it shows a ground track instead of a heading it is more accurate and easier to compensate for cross winds on approach than a regualr HSI. There is no need for vacuum and in an emergency it can work on internal battery. It is also less expensive than a regular HSI. Strongly recommend it.

José
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Please don't mention Aera's mine was stolen. :(
 
bartmc said:
Please don't mention Aera's mine was stolen. :(
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Just curious, where was your Aera when it was stolen? In any case a second Aera will be cheaper and better than any HSI. You may be able to get money from your plane insurance.

José
 
Piloto said:
Something you may want to consider is an Aera or 496 on the Yoke. It has an HSI display and an arc display with glide slope bar across. It works better than a regular HSI and there is no need to slave. Because it shows a ground track instead of a heading it is more accurate and easier to compensate for cross winds on approach than a regualr HSI. There is no need for vacuum and in an emergency it can work on internal battery. It is also less expensive than a regular HSI. Strongly recommend it.

José
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Of course, it also isn't legal for IFR use...
 
Piloto said:
Just curious, where was your Aera when it was stolen? In any case a second Aera will be cheaper and better than any HSI. You may be able to get money from your plane insurance.

José
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Stolen from my rental car outside Dewitt spain airport in Memphis, TN. I had one in the first day or so after they came off the line. It's been about a year and a half since it was stolen. I replaced it with a Quadra that also had an HSI display and then replaced that with an iPad, which due to it's size and awkwardness in the cockpit spends most of it's time turned off in the co-pilots seat.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Of course, it also isn't legal for IFR use...
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You use the Aera as an aid while using your ILS CDI at the same time. But from my experience specially on back course approaches you are better off with the Aera.

José
 
Piloto said:
You use the Aera as an aid while using your ILS CDI at the same time.
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You could do that technically, but then which one do you follow when they disagree? And I'd expect them to disagree given the fact that the Area is taking a GPS signal and drawing a straight line, whereas the ILS is a ground-based signal and will probably have some bends in it due to the waves getting moved around with terrain.

But from my experience specially on back course approaches you are better off with the Aera.
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And what are you basing this on? I'm doubting that you have all the equipment that Flight Check has when they check the approaches.
 
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