What about a 2-year degree?

MrAviator180

MrAviator180

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MrAviator
This un-named college has the 2 year aviation program with an associates, but it doesn't have the bachelor's. I don't want to fly for any airlines, I may want to fly corporate eventually. But I am planning to stay in general aviation..

Should I just get the 2 year?

And if you're going to give me a "You need your four year to be a pilot" deal, I won't buy it. I know a bush pilot flying with a great company up here in AK, who didn't even go to college.

Thoughts?
 
go for it. if you decide you want the 4 yr, transfer to a college for 2 more years and get the 4 yr degree. lots cheaper to go to a community college and you get the ratings done twice as fast
 
MrAviator180 said:
This un-named college has the 2 year aviation program with an associates, but it doesn't have the bachelor's. I don't want to fly for any airlines, I may want to fly corporate eventually. But I am planning to stay in general aviation..

Should I just get the 2 year?

And if you're going to give me a "You need your four year to be a pilot" deal, I won't buy it. I know a bush pilot flying with a great company up here in AK, who didn't even go to college.

Thoughts?
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Based on my experience, when you get into turboprops and jets the insurance company requires that you hold an ATP certificate. Under the new regs, you can't even take the written until you have completed the ATP Certificate Training Program (Advisory Circular 61.138) whether you have airline aspirations or not. Refer to 61.160 for the acceptability of an associates degree versus a bachelors. Your bush pilot would not meet today's standards, and there is no grandfather clause.

If you can get the ATP written out of the way before July 31, 2114, you can dodge this bullet.

Bob Gardner
 
Does the ATP written ever expire? I know most other written results are no good after 2 years.
 
2 year is fine if you don't want to go big / airlines. I know many people who fly corporate or charter with just a 2 year deg. I have also seen some bigger flight departments (91 and 135) flying larger aircraft require it, however it would be a while to get to those types of gigs anyway.

However....im not sure of your age but its hard to make a decision in your 20's for your 45 year old self...if that makes sense. Once you get older, want a schedule / benefits etc...you might change your mind on what you want to do and it would of been easier to plug away at your 4 year while you were at it.
 
Did I read that right, pilots are going to need a 4 year degree to get an ATP? If so that is colossally retarded.
 
tonycondon said:
go for it. if you decide you want the 4 yr, transfer to a college for 2 more years and get the 4 yr degree. lots cheaper to go to a community college and you get the ratings done twice as fast
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Definitely. If the 2yr college is local and the 4 yr is not local and you don't have the option for the 4 yr college right now, go do what you can now.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Did I read that right, pilots are going to need a 4 year degree to get an ATP? If so that is colossally retarded.
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Read the new regs for yourself: 61.153 to 61.160.

The relatives of those who died in the cabin of the Colgan flight packed the Congressional hearings, parked themselves in Congressional offices, etc until they got legislation that in their non-flying opinion was required in order to forestall a similar accident. Congresscritters cave under pressure.

Bob
 
if you want a job with the airlines. you'll need a four year degree.
 
In ten years. Miguel will need a four year degree in agricultural administration in order to pick grapes off the vines at Gallo's Modesto vineyards.
 
Sac Arrow said:
In ten years. Miguel will need a four year degree in agricultural administration in order to pick grapes off the vines at Gallo's Modesto vineyards.
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That's where we are headed. It's a Bubble I tell ya, it will burst
 
dell30rb said:
That's where we are headed. It's a Bubble I tell ya, it will burst
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:yeahthat: College education has been oversold, overpriced and grossly devalued all at the same time. And the student loan debt crisis is the time bomb that will bring it all crashing down.
 
LDJones said:
:yeahthat: College education has been oversold, overpriced and grossly devalued all at the same time. And the student loan debt crisis is the time bomb that will bring it all crashing down.
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and that debt is like herpes; you can't get rid of it. you have to pay it back and there is no fresh start with a bankruptcy.
 
dans2992 said:
Does the ATP written ever expire?
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Yes.
I know most other written results are no good after 2 years.
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The same 24-month rule in 61.39 which applies to all other pilot certificates applies to ATP other than the 60-month rule for ATP training programs listed in 61.156. So, it's either 2 years or 5 years, but eventually it does expire.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Did I read that right, pilots are going to need a 4 year degree to get an ATP?
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No, you did not read that right. There are a number of ways to reduce the total flight experience needed for ATP, one of which is a 4-year degree from an approved collegiate aviation program. However, without any degree at all, you can still get an ATP by meeting the full aeronautical experience requirements in 61.159 which haven't changed in a very long time.
 
MrAviator180 said:
Should I just get the 2 year?
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There's always the possibility that an unexpected medical problem will end your pilot career prematurely. You may want to plan for that contingency, and many such plans will benefit from your having a bachelor's degree.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, you did not read that right. There are a number of ways to reduce the total flight experience needed for ATP, one of which is a 4-year degree from an approved collegiate aviation program. However, without any degree at all, you can still get an ATP by meeting the full aeronautical experience requirements in 61.159 which haven't changed in a very long time.
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...but you still have the ATP-Certification Training Program hurdle to get over. I had a long exchange of emails with Wayne Phillips, an airline pilot who writes the Career Pilot column for Plane & Pilot. I couldn't believe that a pilot who did not aspire to an airline seat had to jump through that hoop; he checked with his sources at FAA headquarters and confirmed that NO ONE will be able to take the ATP written (after 7-31-14) without completion of the CTP.

I would love to be wrong. I know you have your own sources at the puzzle palace....maybe you can find another answer.

Bob Gardner
 
Sac Arrow said:
In ten years. Miguel will need a four year degree in agricultural administration in order to pick grapes off the vines at Gallo's Modesto vineyards.
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But how will he ever repay his loans? Won't someone think of the children?

:D
 
bobmrg said:
I would love to be wrong. I know you have your own sources at the puzzle palace....maybe you can find another answer
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I would believe that the NSA is spying on the FAA, but now they're writing the regs?
 
Get a degree that you can use as a backup to aviation, meaning a non aviation degree.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why?

Lots of jobs require a college degree.
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If only that Colgan captain had a women's studies degree they might all still
be alive. Required doesn't mean it is useful or adds ability.
 
Of course you don't need a degree to become a pilot. You don't even need a HS diploma. But it's a screening tool for some jobs, like it or not. Also, on the subject of getting a degree just in case you run into a medical problem down the line. Your medical problem better happen pretty soon, because later in life I don't think anyone is going to be impressed by your 30 year old degree if you haven't worked in the relevant field during that time.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
If only that Colgan captain had a women's studies degree they might all still
be alive. Required doesn't mean it is useful or adds ability.
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Why does the Air Force want their pilots to have a degree?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why does the Air Force want their pilots to have a degree?
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Your high school guidance counselor lied to you,college doesn't make you smarter or imbibe any special abilities. Just another fleecing stop on your forced march through the american feedlot.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Your high school guidance counselor lied to you,college doesn't make you smarter or imbibe any special abilities. Just another fleecing stop on your forced march through the american feedlot.
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You think Air Force pilots are being fleeced and forced marched?


Do you really encourage youngsters to avoid seeking education ?
 
bobmrg said:
...but you still have the ATP-Certification Training Program hurdle to get over. I had a long exchange of emails with Wayne Phillips, an airline pilot who writes the Career Pilot column for Plane & Pilot. I couldn't believe that a pilot who did not aspire to an airline seat had to jump through that hoop; he checked with his sources at FAA headquarters and confirmed that NO ONE will be able to take the ATP written (after 7-31-14) without completion of the CTP.

I would love to be wrong. I know you have your own sources at the puzzle palace....maybe you can find another answer.

Bob Gardner
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That training requirement is only to take the written, and does not have to come from a college/university, just "an authorized training provider under part 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter". See 61.153(e) and 61.156(a). The big problem is going to be finding that Level C full flight sim for the six hours of training required by 61.156(b)(1).

BTW, this requirement does not apply to taking the tests for ATP-Airplane with only a single-engine rating. I guess they're going to have to create a new separate ATP-ASEL/S written, because at the moment, there's only one written for ATP-Airplane, and once you get that and the ATP-ASEL/S, it's just an additional class rating with no additional written test, and that would bypass the 61.156 requirements.
 
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JoseCuervo said:
Why does the Air Force want their pilots to have a degree?
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You'd have to ask the Air Force to be sure, but I think the basic answer is they want their officers (and as a matter of policy, all USAF pilots are officers) to have demonstrated the ability to learn at a higher level than high school in an environment where self-motivation is essential.
 
peevee said:
I don't care what you think about the value of a degree, advising someone not to go to college is terrible advice with underemployment being what it is right now and college grads unable to find work IMO.
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Yeah they'd better served picking 5 or 6 digits of student loan debt and the attitude that they are too precious to swing a hammer for money. Times have changed folks, college is useless.
 
peevee said:
Right, work for 13 dollars an hour until you're too old and broke down to keep going then ha e no retirement or anything to fall back on. Sounds good.
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Working for 13 bucks an hour while carrying crippling student loans is better how?
 
A two year degree seems like a good idea no matter what you decide to do. The Colgan pilot apparently had a lot of trouble throughout his career , failing check rides etc. the services demand a degree as it shows you should be able to comprehend some complex study requirements that are fed to you quickly and often under pressure. The pressure is applied to see if you can handle it. If you have trouble comprehending what they are trying to teach you, and on top of that, you can't handle pressure, ( the Colgan pilots) then they want you gone! You might recall the young lady some years ago who was determined to fly a navy fighter. Even though her instructors noted that she could get into big trouble, the navy , eager to have a carrier qualified woman, passed her on, until she killed herself early on while attempting a carrier landing. Her back seat, seeing a massive screw up ejected before it hit, saving his life. I think Ron is exactly right.
 
About college being useless. All depends on what you study, always has. A flying buddy's grandson recently graduated from cal tech with a degree in computer science. He then was commissioned in the army, graduated as a helicopter pilot and has a job with a major computer company, started at 60 grand. He flys in the guard. His sister is a sophomore at the maritime academy and hopes to fly in the navy. Straight A's in high school. It's where the fellow, a navy captain , retired astronaut went, who married the congresswoman , gabby Gifford, who was shot not long ago. I doubt he majored in basket weaving.
 
peevee said:
I don't care what you think about the value of a degree, advising someone not to go to college is terrible advice with underemployment being what it is right now and college grads unable to find work IMO.
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If underemployment is already high and grads are unable to find work, how is a college degree going to help someone. Just results in big loan to pay back.
 
us AAirways said:
If underemployment is already high and grads are unable to find work, how is a college degree going to help someone. Just results in big loan to pay back.
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Better advice would be to get a degree in a field which has growth and future prospects. I'm always amazed at the stories about people that get an advanced degree in art history, political science, literature, etc., take on six figure student loan debt, and then complain no one will hire them.

When you 'Follow your passion', it might result in being a highly educated restaurant server...why some people put money and effort into a degree which won't feed them is a mystery to me.
 
ClimbnSink said:
college doesn't make you smarter or imbibe any special abilities.
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I've never imbibed any special abilities. Perhaps you mean imbue? (That's the sort of thing one learns in college. :) )
 
Jimmy cooper said:
About college being useless. All depends on what you study, always has. A flying buddy's grandson recently graduated from cal tech with a degree in computer science. He then was commissioned in the army, graduated as a helicopter pilot and has a job with a major computer company, started at 60 grand. He flys in the guard. His sister is a sophomore at the maritime academy and hopes to fly in the navy. Straight A's in high school. It's where the fellow, a navy captain , retired astronaut went, who married the congresswoman , gabby Gifford, who was shot not long ago. I doubt he majored in basket weaving.
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A degree from CalTech needs to yield far more than $60k to start in order to be a sound investment.
 
There are all kinds of jobs out there for folks with a four year degree.

Provided that they have a degree related to the field of employment.
There are all kinds of jobs out there for someone with a degree in aeronautical engineering, or electrical engineering. But not so much for those with a degree in art.

Actually, most companies will hire the person with a degree and no experience, over the person with 30 years experience in the field, and only HS education. Even in the skilled trades.
A 4 year degree, is the new HS diploma. So choose your major wisely.
 
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