What’s Your Time Source for Logging Flights?

[Larry in TN]

Pilots log taxi time because the FAA says you can log it for time used to meet the flight time requirements of the various regulations. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing stopping you from keeping an additional column for wheels-up to wheels-down time.

The FAA set those flight time requirements based on logging taxi time. If they set them based on wheels-up to wheels-down then the requirements would be somewhat less.

The military doesn't log taxi time so most airlines allow military applicants to add an adjustment for each flight towards meeting their minimum requirements because those requirements were set based on the FAA definition of flight time.

 

[RussR]

View attachment 104520

Well now that's even more interesting. According to that, flying time starts on takeoff roll but ends when the engine is shut down after landing. Which means that the taxiing AFTER the flight is logged as flight time, but not the taxiing BEFORE the flight. That's an interesting inconsistency.

Or, to word it another way, taxiing counts as flight time at approximately half the rate. If we assume that outbound taxi and inbound taxi times are approximately the same, then 30 minutes of taxi is logged as 15 minutes of flight. Now that's an interesting effect, I wonder if it was intentional.

 

[Bob Noel]

Well now that's even more interesting. According to that, flying time starts on takeoff roll but ends when the engine is shut down after landing. Which means that the taxiing AFTER the flight is logged as flight time, but not the taxiing BEFORE the flight. That's an interesting inconsistency.

Or, to word it another way, taxiing counts as flight time at approximately half the rate. If we assume that outbound taxi and inbound taxi times are approximately the same, then 30 minutes of taxi is logged as 15 minutes of flight. Now that's an interesting effect, I wonder if it was intentional.

I would expect taxi times after landing to be considerably shorter than the taxi/wait/wait/wait times before takeoff

 

[eman1200]

I log all taxi time as dual and put edfred’s CFI # in my logbook.

 

[Velocity173]

Well now that's even more interesting. According to that, flying time starts on takeoff roll but ends when the engine is shut down after landing. Which means that the taxiing AFTER the flight is logged as flight time, but not the taxiing BEFORE the flight. That's an interesting inconsistency.

Or, to word it another way, taxiing counts as flight time at approximately half the rate. If we assume that outbound taxi and inbound taxi times are approximately the same, then 30 minutes of taxi is logged as 15 minutes of flight. Now that's an interesting effect, I wonder if it was intentional.

No sure how they came up with it. Just Army regs on logging time. Personally I think it’s a more balanced approach vs the FAA’s definition. Doesn’t really matter though. People are going to log what they want anyway. Several times I came back from a flight and the other aircraft had a .2 or .3 higher than me. I’d say something like “trying to set yourself up for employment after the Army huh?”

 

[Sluggo63]

Well now that's even more interesting. According to that, flying time starts on takeoff roll but ends when the engine is shut down after landing. Which means that the taxiing AFTER the flight is logged as flight time, but not the taxiing BEFORE the flight. That's an interesting inconsistency.

Or, to word it another way, taxiing counts as flight time at approximately half the rate. If we assume that outbound taxi and inbound taxi times are approximately the same, then 30 minutes of taxi is logged as 15 minutes of flight. Now that's an interesting effect, I wonder if it was intentional.

The Air Force was similar. Time is logged from the start of the takeoff roll to landing plus 5 minutes, or engine shutdown whichever is sooner. That really never made sense to me, but whatever.

As to what @Larry in TN was alluding to regarding airlines, in my experience each one handled military time differently. Some allowed you to add 0.3 per sortie, some had a multiplication factor of, say, 1.2 of your flight time. Some just wanted you to give them the raw hours and they applied their own conversion.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Not for me it doesn’t. If you mean you can review the log and manually pick out the time you started moving and when you stopped then sure, but the “Total Time” reported is the entire duration of the log, which occasionally includes me driving away from the airport if I forgot to stop it manually or close the app when I parked. I don’t see any setting to change whatever odd criteria it uses, but it clearly isn’t using speed, acceleration, or the microphone.

“Flight Time” does appear to accurately capture takeoff to touchdown but that isn’t much help (EdFred excepted).

“Night Time” is apparently completely broken, otherwise that would be a nice feature.

When viewing the log, tap Info at the top to see the other timers.

It sounds like there might be a setting that we have configured differently from each other. My FF track logs begin when the plane starts rolling after I start Foreflight, get a signal from the 345 or Appareo transponder depending on which plane I’m in and then start rolling toward the runs area. It continues logging until I stop on the ground again for more than a few seconds which is almost always n front of the hangar. I then turn off Foreflight. The times I have forgotten to turn it off. It will create a second track log, deformity my five minute drive home.

What do all you "flight time only includes time you're in the air" folks log when you're doing touch and goes or stop and goes or full-stop taxi backs?

Your logged time includes all time while in motion “for the purpose of flight.” If you stop at the gas pump, the time from the hangar to the gas pump is not logged.

 

[Jim K]

Your logged time includes all time while in motion “for the purpose of flight.” If you stop at the gas pump, the time from the hangar to the gas pump is not logged.

Pfft. Can't fly without go-juice.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I log from coffee to beer.

 

[Initial Fix]

I log all taxi time as dual and put edfred’s CFI # in my logbook.

do folks who don’t log taxi time deduct the time between landings - assuming you are doing taxi back to takeoff?

 

[wayne]

I use Hobbs time. It's easy and what I was taught. Doesn't matter rmuch. I'm not doing this for a living.



Wayne

 

[Dave Theisen]

So when I pop through a cloud, I’m in IMC for 10 seconds. Well, I don’t log in minutes and seconds, so that’s got to go in the book as .1. Oops, there’s another cloud, so another .1. And so on, and so on. Before you know it, I’ve got more instrument time than flight time.

(Please note the smiley face. No need to report me to the FAA)

 

[HighCountry]

It sounds like there might be a setting that we have configured differently from each other. My FF track logs begin when the plane starts rolling after I start Foreflight, get a signal from the 345 or Appareo transponder depending on which plane I’m in and then start rolling toward the runs area. It continues logging until I stop on the ground again for more than a few seconds which is almost always n front of the hangar. I then turn off Foreflight. The times I have forgotten to turn it off. It will create a second track log, deformity my five minute drive home.

I've tried to dig into this and apparently there are only the two settings; start manually, and start automatically. Both can be enabled at the same time (mine are):
https://foreflight.com/support/video-library/watch/?v=how-to-automatic-track-logging-2

Maybe you have a better subscription plan than I do (Pro Plus)?

Sometimes mine doesn't start until I'm well into the taxi and when I notice that I start it manually. When it stops is anyone's guess, it could be short final or during the drive home. Again, if I notice it still recording after I parked I stop it manually. The only consistency is its unreliability. I don't use FF times, just sharing that I couldn't if I wanted to without some manual data review each time.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I would expect taxi times after landing to be considerably shorter than the taxi/wait/wait/wait times before takeoff

That really depends. The airport is either busy or not. If its busy there is a high probability of delay regardless of your destination, runway or chocks.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I've tried to dig into this and apparently there are only the two settings; start manually, and start automatically. Both can be enabled at the same time (mine are):
https://foreflight.com/support/video-library/watch/?v=how-to-automatic-track-logging-2

Maybe you have a better subscription plan than I do (Pro Plus)?

Sometimes mine doesn't start until I'm well into the taxi and when I notice that I start it manually. When it stops is anyone's guess, it could be short final or during the drive home. Again, if I notice it still recording after I parked I stop it manually. The only consistency is its unreliability. I don't use FF times, just sharing that I couldn't if I wanted to without some manual data review each time.

My settings are “Enable Start/Stop Control,” and “Enable Auto Start/Stop” and both are enabled.

I have Pro Plus.

One thing that may or may not be different between us might be the procedure:

Typically after preflighting and climbing in the plane, I turn on the IPad, or on a local flight I might not have the iPad, in which case I turn on my iPhone, and open Foreflight before starting the plane. The transponders in both planes power up on the Master, not the avionics master. In probably less than a minute, Foreflight has acquired the transponder, both of them are ADS-B IN transponders, and I am going on about my business.

Are you using a transponder for GPS position? Maybe that is the difference. It’s been a long time since I’ve depended on the GPS receiver within the IPad. That might work differently.

Hope this helps. I’m curious to know what you find.

 

[Bob Noel]

That really depends. The airport is either busy or not. If its busy there is a high probability of delay regardless of your destination, runway or chocks.

not a lot of times you'll have 5 airplanes waiting to get to the gate, but is 5+ planes waiting to takeoff unusual at busy airports?

 

[wayne]

So when I pop through a cloud, I’m in IMC for 10 seconds. Well, I don’t log in minutes and seconds, so that’s got to go in the book as .1. Oops, there’s another cloud, so another .1. And so on, and so on. Before you know it, I’ve got more instrument time than flight time.

(Please note the smiley face. No need to report me to the FAA)

Yep. The smallest unit is 0.1, so....

I've seen posts by some that say you can't fly visually when above a solid layer so it's all IMC time if you are above a solid layer. I don't do that. But yeah, popping through a layer is 0.1.

 

[RussR]

I would expect taxi times after landing to be considerably shorter than the taxi/wait/wait/wait times before takeoff

It was from an Army regulation, so operations will differ from a civilian airport. Of course, waiting for a clearance can hold you up, though that would depend on where you are, and the operation too. In the Air Force, sometimes we had long delays for some problem with arming (or de-arming even). I imagine the likelihood of lengthy pre-departure delays at an Army Airfield would be much lower than at a civilian airport, though of course they fly to civilian airports too.

So, maybe it's not 50/50 for the pre-takeoff and after-landing takeoff time. maybe it's 70% pre- and 30% after-. But the way the Army rule is written still has the side-effect of "weighting" the taxi time. Taxi time counts, but effectively only 30% or whatever as much as actual flight time. Which is why I find the rule interestingly worded.

 

[RussellJ]

Clock or hobbs