Well, I certainly found the most expensive way to get to Florida.

[Jim K]

The amazing luck continues...spoke with Chris from Airworx this afternoon. He already has the engine opened up and says there's essentially no damage. A few things to clean up from the shaft exiting, and he expects to have it back together next week! He doesn't screw around. Sounds like the prop will be the hangup now. I opted to have it overhauled as it hasn't been off in 20 years, and I'm a little concerned about there being something in either the prop, or more likely, the governor, that precipitated this. Prop shop says about 6 weeks, so unless they condemn the prop for some reason I should have her back by mid April, which is WAY better than expected, and will leave enough time to get some good hours on her before we take off for Badlands/Yellowstone/Tetons in June.

 

[Rgbeard]

I had my money on no-damage.

Glad this your result! You know that 2.xx quart thing is amazing.

 

[midwestpa24]

850 SMOH in 2006.

16 years since OH. I'm not saying I'd tear down a perfectly good engine for kicks because of calendar date, but it might make me feel a little better it lasted that many years.

 

[Jim K]

16 years since OH. I'm not saying I'd tear down a perfectly good engine for kicks because of calendar date, but it might make me feel a little better it lasted that many years.

Don't disagree. I always wondered about the condition of the cam as there were obviously periods of inactivity. He says it looks great Helluva a way to get a cam inspection, but I'll take a win when I can get it.

 

[masloki]

Don't disagree. I always wondered about the condition of the cam as there were obviously periods of inactivity. He says it looks great Helluva a way to get a cam inspection, but I'll take a win when I can get it.

Get some photos and keep them with the logs.

 

[Salty]

Were you able to determine if AD 2015-02-07 was complied with last time somebody messed with the governor?

 

[Jim K]

That ad doesn't technically apply to my engine, although that appears to be the exact failure I had. The other issue with it is that it only requires action when the shaft is installed, which is only when the engine is split.

I wish I had known about Lycoming SI-1560, which recommends removing that plug and making sure the shaft doesn't move. Knowing what I know now, Id tell any owner of a wide deck io360 or 540 to get that done sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what year they changed the design, but that SI is dated 2016.

 

[baboss]

That ad doesn't technically apply to my engine, although that appears to be the exact failure I had. The other issue with it is that it only requires action when the shaft is installed, which is only when the engine is split.

I wish I had known about Lycoming SI-1560, which recommends removing that plug and making sure the shaft doesn't move. Knowing what I know now, Id tell any owner of a wide deck io360 or 540 to get that done sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what year they changed the design, but that SI is dated 2016.

Sounds like good reason to file a Service Difficulty Report despite the AD and service bulletin/letter?
Federal Aviation Administration (faa.gov)

 

[Jim K]

Sounds like good reason to file a Service Difficulty Report despite the AD and service bulletin/letter?
Federal Aviation Administration (faa.gov)

I didn't know this channel existed.

I think I'm going to get ahold of the FSDO guy who's dealing with this and ask his opinion. He's been talking to the mechanic and actually drove down and saw the plane.

The AD on the aerobatic engine requires the change whenever the engine is opened up. Even if that applied to mine, it wouldn't have helped. The SI MIGHT have IF the shaft was already loose, AND the prop had been off. This prop and engine have never been separated....I had plans to have it done this summer. Maybe the SI should be an AD to elevate awareness of the issue, or maybe this is truly a "struck by lightning" type of failure. The mechanics told me they saw a 540 on a Navajo do the same thing a couple years ago.

FWIW we had a discussion earlier in the thread about how much info the fsdo wants in the wake of an emergency... this guy called me and we had a 5min chat the day after the incident, and he hasn't asked for anything from me since. He did ask the mechanic for pictures. Id be interested to know if he's been in contact with the engine shop.

 

[Salty]

What engine and prop?

the engine or prop have never been overhauled?

 

[Jim K]

What engine and prop?

the engine or prop have never been overhauled?

The engine was OH in '06, the prop was 1 year old and about 75 hours at that time. They've not been apart since. The SI came out in '15, so it's never been done unless it wasn't logged. The owner between the guy who did the OH and myself didn't do any maintenance beyond oil changes and annuals.

This is the IO-540-K1G5D if I haven't mentioned it. 3 blade Hartzell "top prop". Hc-3cyf iirc

 

[Salty]

The engine was OH in '06, the prop was 1 year old and about 75 hours at that time. They've not been apart since. The SI came out in '15, so it's never been done unless it wasn't logged. The owner between the guy who did the OH and myself didn't do any maintenance beyond oil changes and annuals.

This is the IO-540-K1G5D if I haven't mentioned it. 3 blade Hartzell "top prop". Hc-3cyf iirc

Spooky, except for the “no other maintenance” this matches mine exactly. Same year of overhaul, same engine and prop. They did prop overhauls like clockwork on mine though.

 

[Jim K]

Spooky, except for the “no other maintenance” this matches mine exactly. Same year of overhaul, same engine and prop. They did prop overhauls like clockwork on mine though.

Is the engine blue with chrome valve covers? Lol

Might be worth investigating the AD sign-off you mentioned... if that mechanic is around maybe they could tell you what exactly they did. Otherwise I'd suggest doing SI-1560 once in a while. Pulling the prop isn't THAT invasive, especially at annual when the spinner & cowl are off anyway.

It will be interesting to see what the prop shop has to say about mine. It's entirely possible the failure started there. They picked them up yesterday, but it'll be a couple weeks before they start on them.

 

[Bell206]

I didn't know this channel existed.

FYI: This latest version is mainly known on the maintenance side as there is a regulatory requirement for 135, 121. Before this reporting method, there used to be an excellent “SDR” system via AC 43-16 which provided a proactive monthly report on SDRs for the entire GA category of aircraft. While the current method provides the info it is a more reactive database where you need to go looking for those SDRs instead of them being brought to your attention. Regardless having a SDR completed by your engine shop with the details would definitely be the thing to do. For reference, here’s an example of what AC 43.16 was:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43-16A_Alert.pdf

Maybe the SI should be an AD to elevate awareness of the issue,

FWIW: The awareness side is the purpose of the OEM SI/SBs. ADs are issued when the awareness side doesn’t work as it is somewhat rare to see an AD issued where there wasn’t a previous SI or SB covering the same thing in cases like this. It is also the reason for an owner to review OEM SI/SBs on a regular basis to see if there is something you would like to address or discuss with your APIA.

Besides do you want to be known as the guy who initiated the Jim K shaft AD? Imagine the fallout you’d get from such a move just like with the Piper spar AD.

Id be interested to know if he's been in contact with the engine shop.

Call him. However, more than likely he is merely gathering info for the assigned NTSB IIC as they are the ones who ultimately handle this information. Perhaps see if the FSDO ASI will give you the IIC name and contact info for any follow ups you wish to do. Unfortunately in todays “climate,” it can be a 50/50 chance on whether this route will get you any meaningful responses.

 

[Racerx]

Besides do you want to be known as the guy who initiated the Jim K shaft AD? Imagine the fallout you’d get from such a move just like with the Piper spar AD.

Means that the Lance is gonna be for sale and Jim will be flying a Cessna or a DA62...just like ERAU getting rid of all their Arrow's. Jim would get a pass going to the DA62... Over to Cessna and I'll be disappointed

 

[Salty]

I’d like to see you fit 7 in a diamond.

 

[Jim K]

Actually the da-62 does offer 7 seats. If it wasn't for the $1mm+ price tag id have one. It's in the maybe someday category, but by the time I can afford one, I won't need 7 seats any more.

 

[Salty]

Actually the da-62 does offer 7 seats. If it wasn't for the $1mm+ price tag id have one. It's in the maybe someday category, but by the time I can afford one, I won't need 7 seats any more.

maybe with no luggage - or fuel. lol

 

[Racerx]

maybe with no luggage - or fuel. lol

Full fuel (84 gallons) the DA62 has about 1,000 pounds of useful. 1560-1600 empty....now good luck getting the nearly 48' wingspan in that same hangar as the Lance.

 

[Rgbeard]

Full fuel (84 gallons) the DA62 has about 1,000 pounds of useful. 1560-1600 empty....now good luck getting the nearly 48' wingspan in that same hangar as the Lance.

Quite a few Lance/Saratoga pilots have considered the "upgrade" to a PA-46, and then had to think twice about the hangar issue, as well.

 

[Jim K]

Well, we can finally put this one to bed. 3 1/2 months after the incident, 35E is back in my hangar. I flew the tube into ATL yesterday and was at MAC at 8:30 this morning. Thorough preflight and runup and took her up for some TNG's. I realized as I turned final that although this would be my second landing here, this was the first time I'd actually seen it:



I was on edge for the whole flight, but apparently everyone did their job correctly because nothing fell off this time. I missed this view so much...



Got her tucked in bed where she belongs. I do have an oil leak that needs to be addressed and I'd like to have my mechanic look her over & make sure he doesn't see anything out of place, but it certainly appears to my eye that the guys at MAC did a good job. I was so incredibly fortunate to happen to land at an airport with competent mechanics. GA is still an adventure.

 

[RyanB]

Good news!

Any idea where the oil leak is originating from?

 

[TCABM]

Congrats @JimK

We have to go to COS this weekend and have a minor oil leak that forces us to decide tube or risk AOG.

We have to be in COS by a certain time, so tube is likely how we will go. Sigh.

 

[Jim K]

Good news!

Any idea where the oil leak is originating from?

Looks like the right oil cooler. It was a little wet before I left but we thought it was just residual from the original disaster. After flying home it's clearly leaking somewhere, but of course it gets everywhere, so we'll have to wash it down to figure it out.

 

[Jim K]

Congrats @JimK

We have to go to COS this weekend and have a minor oil leak that forces us to decide tube or risk AOG.

We have to be in COS by a certain time, so tube is likely how we will go. Sigh.

If it wasn't for all the nonsense and waiting, I'd really enjoy commercial air travel. Even the CRJ was fun.

It always blows me away how people can be so apathetic about about such an amazing experience. I'm glued to the window and watching our altitude, VS, and GS on my EFB while everyone else in the plane has the shades drawn so they don't get a glare on their iPad movie. I just want to stand up and yell at them to look outside and contemplate the miracle of physics they are participating in.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

I am so glad to read that this chapter is finally over for you @Jim K . We were both on our way to Florida back in February and my plane broke down on the way as well and we ended up driving just like you did. Great to hear and see your plane back home.

 

[hindsight2020]

If it wasn't for all the nonsense and waiting, I'd really enjoy commercial air travel. Even the CRJ was fun.

It always blows me away how people can be so apathetic about about such an amazing experience. I'm glued to the window and watching our altitude, VS, and GS on my EFB while everyone else in the plane has the shades drawn so they don't get a glare on their iPad movie. I just want to stand up and yell at them to look outside and contemplate the miracle of physics they are participating in.

Sit 5 hours in a United 738 coach seat pitch and width next to an American sized overweight male, then talk to me about the miracle of flight. The miracle of how i didn't get DVT is more like it....

Airlines, outside of first class seating when the city pairing is affordable for us, is nothing more than an aeroevac option if something went down (aog out of town, household emergency back home et al). Not something we pursue for leisure travel anymore. That ship has sailed for us.

 

[WDD]

I am so glad to read that this chapter is finally over for you @Jim K . We were both on our way to Florida back in February and my plane broke down on the way as well and we ended up driving just like you did. Great to hear and see your plane back home.

Maybe it's Florida that is the common link......

 

[ChucktheTruck]

Glad your airplane is back in the air! One of my fears when getting stuck AOG is being at a field where there isn’t proper maintenance support, I’m glad it worked out for you! I love the golf cart at your hangar btw. I need to get one of those with that scheme.

 

[TCABM]

If it wasn't for all the nonsense and waiting, I'd really enjoy commercial air travel.….

Too many hours in the E-3 for me. Too accustomed to walking around whenever/wherever I wanted on the jet, 40 SOB max(usually 22-26 though) and six bunks.

 

[Salty]

That ad doesn't technically apply to my engine, although that appears to be the exact failure I had. The other issue with it is that it only requires action when the shaft is installed, which is only when the engine is split.

I wish I had known about Lycoming SI-1560, which recommends removing that plug and making sure the shaft doesn't move. Knowing what I know now, Id tell any owner of a wide deck io360 or 540 to get that done sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what year they changed the design, but that SI is dated 2016.

Been thinking about this. Do you think the below is accurate?

Your problem wasn’t really caused by the set screw, it was caused by the plug backing out, correct? The set screw was just another issue found. Potentially the set screw could have contributed to the failure of the plug, and likely introduced metal into the oil, as well as eventually wearing and resulting in a prop gov failure, and probably a catastrophic engine failure Due to all the metal that would be produced.

But bottom line, had the plug been safety wired, this particular failure would not have occurred.

accurate?

 

[Jim K]

Been thinking about this. Do you think the below is accurate?

Your problem wasn’t really caused by the set screw, it was caused by the plug backing out, correct? The set screw was just another issue found. Potentially the set screw could have contributed to the failure of the plug, and likely introduced metal into the oil, as well as eventually wearing and resulting in a prop gov failure, and probably a catastrophic engine failure Due to all the metal that would be produced.

But bottom line, had the plug been safety wired, this particular failure would not have occurred.

accurate?

Just the opposite.

The plug was safety wired... the top half of it was hanging by the wire. Whatever retained the shaft failed. I don't know if that allowed it to spin, wearing out the plug or if the load on the shaft just overpowered the plug. There was no indication of a problem in the previous oil samples.

The plug is just a hole cover, it's not supposed to retain the shaft. I still don't exactly understand how the original setup worked, but the shaft was retained by a roll pin that can back out. The fix is to replace the shaft, drill & tap the retaining pin hole, and jam a set screw in there and then stake it. SI 1343C describes the procedure, but doesn't show the original setup.

Lycoming SI 1560 covers the test, but it's basically remove the plug, stick a magnet on the shaft, and see if it moves. If it does, it's going to fail eventually. Unfortunately that means tearing the engine down, but I guess that's better than a windshield full of oil.

What I can't find is when lyco made the change. The si's are both dated 2016, but I can't find any of parts manuals showing the old setup. Might be worth asking. My engine was last overhauled in 2006.

 

[Salty]

Just the opposite.

The plug was safety wired... the top half of it was hanging by the wire. Whatever retained the shaft failed. I don't know if that allowed it to spin, wearing out the plug or if the load on the shaft just overpowered the plug. There was no indication of a problem in the previous oil samples.

The plug is just a hole cover, it's not supposed to retain the shaft. I still don't exactly understand how the original setup worked, but the shaft was retained by a roll pin that can back out. The fix is to replace the shaft, drill & tap the retaining pin hole, and jam a set screw in there and then stake it. SI 1343C describes the procedure, but doesn't show the original setup.

Lycoming SI 1560 covers the test, but it's basically remove the plug, stick a magnet on the shaft, and see if it moves. If it does, it's going to fail eventually. Unfortunately that means tearing the engine down, but I guess that's better than a windshield full of oil.

What I can't find is when lyco made the change. The si's are both dated 2016, but I can't find any of parts manuals showing the old setup. Might be worth asking. My engine was last overhauled in 2006.

Ok, that’s exactly what I suspected and why I wanted to clarify. Crazy.

 

[steingar]

Just a nit to pick with the title of the thread. If you rented a luxury yacht and casually motored the waterways to Florida you would certainly spend far more money. Just a nit.

Congrats on getting your airplane back, that's always good feeling.