Was AirVenture lacking something this year?

Huh... I probably should have tried it. :rofl: I got in early and was parked in row 510, so I'd have to walk away from the show gate to get there, so I just skipped it and went on in. I'll have to give it a shot if they're back next year. Did Fratello's run that, or someone else?
The North 40 food tent was run by Kodiak Jacks I believe.

Sunday has been pretty sparse for quite a while, IMO - I wasn't there on Sunday this year for comparison, but it seems like everyone is burned out by Sunday and they just want to get home.
It's been this way since they ended the show on Sunday. It was a bit better when it ended later.
but not until driving his car over there to be sure that there really was a tent and a set of tiedowns there. (Why would I say that if it weren't true? :dunno:
If the pilots there are anything like the ones that show up down in Vintage, yeah they would. We get all sorts of people who show up with row signs but no space, post-1970 planes displaying VAC signs (you can tell the intent because they also have a GAC sign they use once we run them out).
 
Huh... I probably should have tried it. :rofl: I got in early and was parked in row 510, so I'd have to walk away from the show gate to get there, so I just skipped it and went on in. I'll have to give it a shot if they're back next year. Did Fratello's run that, or someone else?

Yukon Jacks as someone else mentioned, and it really was pretty good. Even had decent salads for when you finally just couldn't shove another burger and fries in your face for another meal. Small bowls of fruit too. (See below.).

Breakfast buffet was all-you-can-eat and had a decent selection of the same type stuff you see at any hotel buffet. One plate was plenty. Waffle sticks, biscuits and sausage gravy, patty sausage, link sausage, the mystery corned beef hash every breakfast buffet serves, hash browns, eggs made out of that pourable stuff (those were worth skipping, but they were eggs if you wanted them), fresh fruit (melons cut up with grapes added), etc.

Lunch/Dinner was the ubiquitous burgers and fries, but they also had grilled chicken sandwiches (Doug took his out of the bun) and a BBQ pork wrap thing. Not too bad for cooking in a tent.

Staff was really friendly too. They even let some folks tap into their AC power there in the center of their tent with a couple of power strips instead of walking down to the shower house/charging station.

I believe the WiFi that folks said worked was theirs, not EAAs. It had a different ESSID of "north40cafe" and I spied an AP hiding behind the gear. Whether they intended for it to be an open access point, or if it was supposed to just be for their credit card machines, I did wonder a bit. Hopefully it wasn't accidental and they don't have a $1000 data overage bill coming from their carrier! LOL!

No complaints here, since we were two rows away. Convenient!

I'm normally not a breakfast eater, but at OSH I'd eat a big breakfast and then just walk through lunch most days... a couple of the days we were there, it was too hot to eat mid-day anyway, so I just hydrated heavily and kept going. Worked out nicely.

Nothing on the menu cheaper than $10.95 and a single 16 oz beer was $5, but that's Oshkosh food vendors... no big surprise there. ;) Sure was nice to tie down, set up tents, and have a cold Leinies Summer Shandy in-hand minutes later. They couldn't serve alcohol until after 5PM and had a separate line for beer and five or six different beers on tap.

Someone also pointed out that there's a new convenience store/gas station over near the Hilton this year, and that's the place to make a beer run to for the North 40 now... Ride over to the Hilton, walk a very short distance, buy a styrofoam cooler, beer, and ice, and ride back around on the bus. Done.

We didn't do it, but it made sense.

Late one night I saw someone unplug the Ethernet from the ATM machine and stuff an Access Point in between the ATM and the Ethernet drop. Haha. For a moment there I thought I was at DEFCON. ;)

Somehow I'm guessing that wasn't the intention of having an Ethernet drop to the ATM right next to the EAA Store! LOL!

The "official" WiFi on the panel antenna up on the light pole marked with the WiFi logo with the roaming "EAAWiFi" ESSID never worked more than about 20-30 seconds. Something wrong with the authentication/login stuff where you have to say you accept the terms. It'd connect and then drop.

Verizon LTE was OMG screaming fast and covered everywhere except the center of the main exhibit area well. And that area had reasonable but slow 3G from the COW trailer parked outside the gate near Hangar C (?) right next to the TV trucks and their microwave masts for live shots.

I saw some dude in what looked like a 3rd party tech support/tower company polo shirt and jeans and the standard company badges hanging off a lanyard, poking at that gear in the trailer like something was broken and talking on his cell phone on Tuesday. He would look at blinkenlights, talk to whoever was on the other end, shake his head like that wasn't the problem, and eventually shrug and walk off, then come back every few minutes for about an half hour. I was sitting under the tree there waiting on a phone call from my mortgage broker... long dumb story there. But had to stay where the phone worked for a little while.

Flying used to pay for the building behind press HQ for their staff to work in, and they didn't this year... I wonder if that had anything to do with it?

One could argue that with the "big tent" changes at EAA and in beefing up Sport Aviation magazine, that supporting Flying in any way just hurts EAA...

And they did steal J. Mac away... I believe there's some strategy afoot there...

Even if it's not planned, I don't think EAA would cry any tears if Flying went all the way under, considering the circumstances right now. They're competing for the same advertisers.
 
The show used to run Tuesday to Monday, so Sunday wasn't the last day and there was a big show.
And before that it ran Wednesday to Tuesday,
and before that Thursday to Wednesday,
and before that it ran from Friday to Thursday (which is where I first attended).
 
If I recall, it USED to run for 10 days in the late 70s early 80s.
 
With Avgas at well over $6 a gallon in most areas (I'm paying $6.19 at a usually lower cost airport) I am suprised anyone went at all. What a joke.

Good time to come visit down here. Avgas is $4.65 at KDTO and dropping. $4.45 at Sherman.

Just pack your sunblock, and the Kool Aire.
 
I made the mistake of thinking the old schedule was still in effect in 2010. Wondered why everybody was packing up so early.

And before that it ran Wednesday to Tuesday,
and before that Thursday to Wednesday,
and before that it ran from Friday to Thursday (which is where I first attended).
 
From my perspective, Oshkosh was wonderful. It was full of friends, new and old, for 7 glorious days. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

2. Draconian Rules in the N40. .

3. Flying Magazine was hugely dissed.

4. Parking in the N40.

5. Sunday show. My son has been to OSH 20 times, (he's 21), and remembers when Sunday was the BIG day on the field. Now, it's nothing -- a waste of time and effort. EAA needs to fix this.

Some interesting and hopeful rumors for next year include:

1. "Corrals" in the N40 for groups of planes. Specified areas, roped off and labeled for specific groups.

2. Real shelters in the N40 "corrals".

I'm not adept at embedding quotes, so I'll address a few of your complaints and rumors here:

- Draconian parking rules. I was standing 3 feet from Hightower while he was discussing this subject with someone whose group wasn't allowed to park together. Hightower pointed out the realities of parking 50 planes an hour in the North 40 during peak times and that there just wasn't a viable opportunity to ask each pilot where s/he wanted to park without backing people up all the way to FonduLac. He did mention some ideas on how they might address it next year. Sounds like something they would like to address, but it isn't a simple problem. One thing he said you can't have is aircraft independantly repositioning themselves "when it is convenient". That isn't safe in a camping area...

- Flying Mag - I heard that story before Airventure. I wish I'd asked about it in the tent or at the Annual Meeting.

- Hightower attributed the tight parking to the instructions the parkers had received. Prior to the show, they were expecting record attendance based on pre-event ticket sales. Obviously, that didn't materialize. Personally, I don't think it is right to crowd planes, regardless of expected crowds.

- Shelters in the N40. As someone who has been in big pavillion type tents a couple of times during major Osh storms, nothing short of a serious metal building is a real shelter. Big "sturdy" tents just give the impression of safety until they get blown down in a very forceful way. My opinion is that big tents are "fools gold" during storms.

- Sunday shows. Whether it is SnF or Osh, the last day of a big show has a real drop-off. EAA used to have Osh on a Wed - Tuesday basis (IIRC), then moved it a day a year until today's schedule of Monday - Sunday. In all cases, the last day was basically a ghost town. Not sure if this can be fixed.

I suggest you take the issues to the EAA forums where several senior members of EAA's staff participate. You could also send a note to feedback@eaa.org, which is a new mechanism for these type issues. The forums might be a better place to post your concerns, because it'll be harder for EAA to ignore them, which is always possible with an e-mail feedback system.
 
In 1992 it was Friday-Thursday. What you got was that EVERYBODY showed up at the same time (typically Wednesday or Thursday) and the show trickled out later in the week as people started to leave Sunday.

Now by the time the early arrivals get sick of it and go home, we get a lot of backfills.

Still, I think they would make more money on what I call the "Lawnchair crowd" (i.e., the local drive in attendees) if they would make Sunday a better draw (probably means jiggering the start dates around again so it ends on Tuesday or whatever).
 
I hear the locals leave Osh the week of the show. They get out of Dodge so to speak and some rent their houses which pays for their vacations.
 
I hear the locals leave Osh the week of the show. They get out of Dodge so to speak and some rent their houses which pays for their vacations.

Our EAA Chapter rents a house on the grounds for the week.
 
In the peak days, the show topped out around 1M.
I think it has gotten a lot more pricey and that may be affecting attendance. The hotel we stay at in Appleton has become so expensive I cut down from 3 to 2 days.
 
I think it has gotten a lot more pricey and that may be affecting attendance. The hotel we stay at in Appleton has become so expensive I cut down from 3 to 2 days.

I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. China and I were discussing how utterly inexpensive our vacation at Oshkosh is compared to anywhere else. Even counting in airplane costs for Oshkosh, I spent way more for a weekend on South Bass Island earlier this summer.
 
I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. China and I were discussing how utterly inexpensive our vacation at Oshkosh is compared to anywhere else. Even counting in airplane costs for Oshkosh, I spent way more for a weekend on South Bass Island earlier this summer.
For those of us who elect to attend but not to fly it is getting ridiculously expensive. Maybe Ill fly next time. I guess that's the whole idea of the event anyway.
 
I expect attendance and GA activity in general to be a lagging economic indicator anyhow. If attendance declines for 2 more years then I would be concerned. In the mean time, I would keep trying to improve as a matter of good business practices.

(before anyone replies and says "why wait two years?" Note that I then said "in the mean time, keep trying to improve :) )
 
Huh... I probably should have tried it. :rofl: I got in early and was parked in row 510, so I'd have to walk away from the show gate to get there, so I just skipped it and went on in. I'll have to give it a shot if they're back next year. Did Fratello's run that, or someone else?

Thankfully, no. It was run by Kodiak Jacks, and they even had REAL BEER. Like, Samuel Adams and Spotted Cow! First class stuff, for once.


Sunday has been pretty sparse for quite a while, IMO - I wasn't there on Sunday this year for comparison, but it seems like everyone is burned out by Sunday and they just want to get home. The Sunday airshow has ended an hour or hour and a half earlier than the airshows on the rest of the days for as long as I can remember, and despite the "rules" that are (or at least used to be) in place for the vendors stating they had to remain set up and open until 3 PM on Sunday, the hangars were generally packed up at noon.

Back in "the day" the show ran until Tuesday, and Sunday was the big Warbirds show. Now? Sunday is a nice air show -- John Mohr, the Stearman guru, always puts on an amazing act -- but all the vendors are gone! We couldn't even find soft-serve ice cream at 1 PM, which was crazy.

IMHO, EAA needs to schedule something special for Sunday, or stop charging for it.
 
I hear the locals leave Osh the week of the show. They get out of Dodge so to speak and some rent their houses which pays for their vacations.

Yep. We stayed in homes the first few years we attended OSH, and it was very common.

This happens all over the country. Here in Port Aranasas, there are lots of condos that owners rent out for the summer, and live in all winter -- or vice versa. It's a smart way to finance a home.
 
I think it has gotten a lot more pricey and that may be affecting attendance. The hotel we stay at in Appleton has become so expensive I cut down from 3 to 2 days.

The Hilton is a 7-night minimum, payable at the time of reservation -- NO refunds. Of course, they are on the field -- not miles away.

They make 75% of their annual income that week. The rest of the year the place is empty.
 
I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. China and I were discussing how utterly inexpensive our vacation at Oshkosh is compared to anywhere else. Even counting in airplane costs for Oshkosh, I spent way more for a weekend on South Bass Island earlier this summer.

Mary and I always joke that the time we are in Oshkosh is actually the nine days we fly the LEAST each year, thus making it a very affordable vacation. :lol:

Of course getting there and back is pricey. But once we're there, it's two meals a day, plus camping. Big whoop.

Well, and beer. And ibuprofen. Especially after Grant's party. :D
 
The Hilton is a 7-night minimum, payable at the time of reservation -- NO refunds. Of course, they are on the field -- not miles away.

They make 75% of their annual income that week. The rest of the year the place is empty.

Agree with the first half that last sentence, not sure about the last half. I go to OSH 3-4 times a year to teach a course, and stay at the Hilton. Parking lot always has a number of cars in it (about the same as a typical suburban Seattle-area hotel), and the cafe is pretty busy for breakfast in the morning.

In fact, I couldn't get a room at the Hilton next week and had to book another hotel in town. Could be just refurbishing the hotel after the big show, though. Steingar's pals are probably pretty rough on the place. :)

BTW, Jay, thanks for the discussion a couple months ago about booking directly with the hotel vs. an online jobber. The price difference between Travelocity and the direct booking for alternate hotel I picked next week was all of five cents...and I'm more confident that the reservation will actually be listed.

Ron Wanttaja
 
A partially full parking lot may not mean profitability, just covering expenses. ;)

Frankly, none of us really know. Not without them cracking their books.
 
What was missing:
In the past, folks in the golf carts, whether vendors or not, would stop to help you.
Comments from bus driver: "oh, PHP museum. Where the bigwigs go.." are the beginning of the END of any grass roots organization.

Just a schoch off.
 
Agree with the first half that last sentence, not sure about the last half. I go to OSH 3-4 times a year to teach a course, and stay at the Hilton. Parking lot always has a number of cars in it (about the same as a typical suburban Seattle-area hotel), and the cafe is pretty busy for breakfast in the morning.

In fact, I couldn't get a room at the Hilton next week and had to book another hotel in town. Could be just refurbishing the hotel after the big show, though. Steingar's pals are probably pretty rough on the place. :)

BTW, Jay, thanks for the discussion a couple months ago about booking directly with the hotel vs. an online jobber. The price difference between Travelocity and the direct booking for alternate hotel I picked next week was all of five cents...and I'm more confident that the reservation will actually be listed.

Ron Wanttaja

My data is a bit dated -- we haven't stayed at that Hilton since 2008-ish -- but we arrived in December, and had the entire hotel to ourselves. I think we paid $69/night, a far cry from the gazillion they charge during OSH.

The entire place was built because Baron wanted a nice place to stay when he came to the show, and he wanted a showpiece so that Harrison and Chuck wouldn't feel like they were slumming it. It made no economic sense when it was built, and I doubt that it makes any more sense today.
 
What was missing:
In the past, folks in the golf carts, whether vendors or not, would stop to help you.
Comments from bus driver: "oh, PHP museum. Where the bigwigs go.." are the beginning of the END of any grass roots organization.

Just a schoch off.

Don't even get me started about golf carts at OSH. By Day Three, I was militantly, actively NOT moving out of their way. We call them "IIGoCs" -- Idiots In Golf Carts -- and the place is awash with more and more of them every year.

Screw them. I'm on foot, it's 95 degrees, and my feet are sore. I ain't jumping out of their way, so they can either go around or go my speed.
 
Flying used to pay for the building behind press HQ for their staff to work in, and they didn't this year... I wonder if that had anything to do with it?

Not only did Flying Magazine pay to use that building, they paid for the upkeep of it for many years. EAA kicked them out. Now that Rod Hightower is gone, maybe they'll be back there -- and allowed to sell t-shirts that say "Oshkosh." So childish.
 
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