Want to start flying…

Dana said:
All those numbers seem high. Minimum is 40 hours, most take ~60. $20K seems very high. The local school was quoting $6065 for the 40 hour minimum, but those are 2018 numbers. I'm sure it's higher now, but not triple.
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I agree they sound on the high end, but I think it's better off going into it with a higher number than assuming it will only cost a lower number and being surprised and quitting part way through. Tons of people don't finish their private for a litany of reasons, with cost and time commitments being near the top (along with medical)


OP - before you get too heavily invested in this make sure you can get a class 3 medical.. there are people who wait until they're a couple thousand dollars into their training before discovering that they cannot get a medical, at least not easily
 
Tantalum said:
OP - before you get too heavily invested in this make sure you can get a class 3 medical.. there are people who wait until they're a couple thousand dollars into their training before discovering that they cannot get a medical, at least not easily
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I wonder if his anger management class participation will factor + or -? :-D
 
Just to clarify, there’s 2 paths to private pilot: part 61 (40 hrs min) and part 141 (35 hrs min). However, as already mentioned, the average number of hours a typical student has when they take their checkride is higher. Here’s another resource that might help you decide: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Hello all . I’d like to start taking flight training and lessons.
Regarding the small airplanes …guess light aircraft, what are the some of the top reasons they crash? I understand the accidents are very very rare but I’d like to know the top causes as I feel it would be prepare me and make sure I always address, be aware of these potential problems . Thank you very much.
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Engine failure has become a common problem. Therefore, seek well maintained aircraft. The human factor is still at the top of the list. Find an instructor that takes safety seriously.
 
CFIJose said:
Engine failure has become a common problem.
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As a newbie how’s he supposed to determine a given airframe is well maintained? Using Ron’s 172 stats from post 33, engine failures contributing to accidents were no more common than most of the other categories save pilot error. He needs to focus on being the best pilot he can because the stats say he’s most likely to be the cause of any potential accident, not engine failure.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
You’re an idiot
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Ok. Even though I often agree with that sentiment, there is no place for that here.
I defended you in a previous post. From here on out, you will have to earn that privilege back.
 
JOhnH said:
Ok. Even though I often agree with that sentiment, there is no place for that here.
I defended you in a previous post. From here on out, you will have to earn that privilege back.
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I apologize
 
tsts4 said:
As a newbie how’s he supposed to determine a given airframe is well maintained? Using Ron’s 172 stats from post 33, engine failures contributing to accidents were no more common than most of the other categories save pilot error. He needs to focus on being the best pilot he can because the stats say he’s most likely to be the cause of any potential accident, not engine failure.
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I don't disagree with you. The pilot (human factor) should still be the #1 priority.
 
Comparisons:

Training in North/Central Texas (KGDJ):
Block rate for a 1969 Cessna 172 is $145/hour plus fuel surcharge (about $5/hr) [N79919]
Instructor cost is $60/hr.
I did all self-study for the FAA written exam, so cost was based around the purchase of textbooks - but the most recommended are all downloadable for free from FAA website.
Cost of exam in 2021 was $175.
If/when I get to the checkride it will be $700 for the DPE used by the flight school I am enriching.
My annual non-owner insurance policy with $250K Bodily Injury/Property Damage and $60K hull is $586 though Assured Partners (AOPA).

One thing to consider - if you request the most senior CFI at the school, be prepared to go through a couple before you are done. Once they hit their magic number (500 or 1,500) they will move on to a better paying job in a heartbeat.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
You’re an idiot
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I was going to take the time to write a lengthy response discussing risk factors and their evaluation, but at the moment I'm not inclined to think you're worth the trouble.

You're very new here and you don't understand this community yet. If you stick around, something you'll learn (assuming you pay attention) is that virtually no one here is an "idiot." We have differing opinions on some subjects, sometimes we argue harshly, and some of our opinions may be more informed or less informed than other members' opinions. No one knows everything, but many of us seem to have opinions on everything anyway.

By and large, though, the folks on this site are intelligent, very well educated, and quite successful. It's pretty tough to become a pilot and aircraft owner if you're not. POA is filled with physicians, engineers, scientists, business people, attorneys, professional airline pilots, entrepeneurs, military officers, college professors, etc. The number of folks here who have advanced degrees is astounding.

For you, as a new POA member, to call someone here an idiot is quite arrogant. Your original post seemed to indicate you came here to learn. Adopting a different attitude would be more conducive to that.
 
Most of our students are taking their checkrides at about 55-65 hours of total time. Cost of renting has gone up in the last few years, but I think you can get your private certificate here for something like $12,000. And, there are lots of scholarships. We're an active flight training center with a half dozen primary instructors and somewhere between 40-50 students, with room for more.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
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FAA minimums are 40 hrs, average is 60, often more.
Hourly rental of aircraft $120-200/hr
Hourly rental of CFI $40-100/hr
Written exam $160
Checkride $500-1,000
 
One piece of advice that will likely save you a lot of time and money is to purchase Jason Schappert’s book “The Private Pilot Blueprint.” (No, I don’t get any kickback, just something that helped me IMMENSELY!) Jason was rated the AOPA's Top Collegiate Flight Instructor in 2008 and Regional Outstanding Flight Instructor of the Year at least 4 times. He knows a thing or two about flying and his book will help you know what you’re getting into and what to expect. The book costs about $7 I think and saved me hundreds if not thousands of dollars. (And it comes with a 30% off coupon if you do your ground school with him which more than pays for the book!)
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Lol..I mean the response from him was unnecessary and condescending
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That is your opinion which, as you've obviously learned, you are entitled to. You are also entitled to express it. HOWEVER, depending on who you're talking to, it can have significant ramifications down the line. I presume you're appreciating that fact here.

The world of flying, unlike some others, is a world of action. It is a world that does not reward "words only" but requires ability to back up the words. People, competent people, have died and will die in this hobby/profession. So, when new people come here, who have no background in aviation, and start expressing their opinions and judgments as if they are have earned that right, it comes off very poorly.

At the end of the day, the airplane doesn't give participation trophies, it doesn't care about pronouns, genders, number of instagram posts, wokeness, etc. All that matters is can you successfully get the plane off the ground, accomplish your mission (travel, maneuvers, etc), and get it back down again to perform a good landing. (Google the definition of good landing if this doesn't make sense).

So, again, welcome to wanting to be a pilot. May your future lessons be less tumultuous.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
So I called A local flight school/instruction place and they said you need about 60 hours training and it’s usually takes about 80-90 and the cost would be about $20,000.
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As to this, the cost will definitely be high. However, you should call more than one flight school.

A couple of other things that you need to factor into the total cost also. These can add significantly to your total cost.
- transportation costs to/from airport
- pilot supplies (headset, logbook, charts and books if going paper, tablet if not, etc)
- swag ("I'm a pilot" t-shirts, "remove before flight" key chain, etc)

When you talk to a flight school ask specifically what their rates are. Ask what kind of aircraft they use A Cirrus or Diamond will cost a good bit more than a Cessna or Piper. Unless you have a compelling reason (very few of those) to choose a Cirrus or Diamond, stick to the Cessnas or Pipers. They will be cheaper and will comfortably do everything you need to get your Private Pilot certificate.

Another consideration is how many CFIs and aircraft do they have. The more CFIs, the more likely you are to be able to fly with an instructor on a given day. The more aircraft, the less likely you are to have a flight cancelled if your scheduled aircraft goes down for maintenance as you'll likely be able to just move to a different aircraft.

And one tip, if I may. After the first couple of lessons, when you get to the point where the CFI says "next lesson we'll be doing <xyz>", study up beforehand. This will make the instructor have to spend less time going over it before the flight (on in the flight) and it will save you money. The clock ticks from start to finish so help yourself by making that as efficient as possible.

Good luck.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Hello all . I’d like to start taking flight training and lessons.
Regarding the small airplanes …guess light aircraft, what are the some of the top reasons they crash? I understand the accidents are very very rare but I’d like to know the top causes as I feel it would be prepare me and make sure I always address, be aware of these potential problems . Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

It’s not that planes crash more often than automobiles, it is the result of the crash is deadlier than an auto crash,
 
Dry Creek said:
Comparisons:

Training in North/Central Texas (KGDJ):
Block rate for a 1969 Cessna 172 is $145/hour plus fuel surcharge (about $5/hr) [N79919]
Instructor cost is $60/hr.
I did all self-study for the FAA written exam, so cost was based around the purchase of textbooks - but the most recommended are all downloadable for free from FAA website.
Cost of exam in 2021 was $175.
If/when I get to the checkride it will be $700 for the DPE used by the flight school I am enriching.
My annual non-owner insurance policy with $250K Bodily Injury/Property Damage and $60K hull is $586 though Assured Partners (AOPA).

One thing to consider - if you request the most senior CFI at the school, be prepared to go through a couple before you are done. Once they hit their magic number (500 or 1,500) they will move on to a better paying job in a heartbeat.
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Unless the most senior instructor is a career instructor. They do exist where they have family commitments tying them down to a location. I know of three at the local school.
 
Many mechanical failure crashes could have been handled better and been an off airport landing that resulted in little to no damage an no injuries.

Again, the pilot is the weak link. As someone mentioned, the probable got to them, I can probably make the airport so I will not land on the nice golf course or farmer's field.

Other ones are also pilot related, fly into a thunderstorm and the airplane may be spit out the bottom in pieces. Don't mess with icing or thunderstorms for a long flying career.

Also, a lot of crashes are survivable. So even if there is a crash, it isn't the end.
 
Half Fast said:
I was going to take the time to write a lengthy response discussing risk factors and their evaluation, but at the moment I'm not inclined to think you're worth the trouble.

You're very new here and you don't understand this community yet. If you stick around, something you'll learn (assuming you pay attention) is that virtually no one here is an "idiot." We have differing opinions on some subjects, sometimes we argue harshly, and some of our opinions may be more informed or less informed than other members' opinions. No one knows everything, but many of us seem to have opinions on everything anyway.

By and large, though, the folks on this site are intelligent, very well educated, and quite successful. It's pretty tough to become a pilot and aircraft owner if you're not. POA is filled with physicians, engineers, scientists, business people, attorneys, professional airline pilots, entrepeneurs, military officers, college professors, etc. The number of folks here who have advanced degrees is astounding.

For you, as a new POA member, to call someone here an idiot is quite arrogant. Your original post seemed to indicate you came here to learn. Adopting a different attitude would be more conducive to that.
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I admitted I was wrong for my response but RGbeards reply to me wasn't so nice or necessary not to mention inaccurate.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
I admitted I was wrong for my response but RGbeards reply to me wasn't so nice or necessary not to mention inaccurate.
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Just let the exchange go.

Nobody is going to apologize nor does anybody, besides you, really care about it.

However, if you continue to bring it up you're going to get a reputation as someone people do not want to engage with.

Now, if you absolutely must have a meeting to discuss feelings and to justify your poorly worded reply, you're going to be disappointed here.
 
SebIp said:
Unless the most senior instructor is a career instructor. They do exist where they have family commitments tying them down to a location. I know of three at the local school.
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True.
I had one instructor at Nationwide Aviation KCPT that was excellent. He had family ties to the Cleburne area. The problem was the lessons were about 25% higher than what I'm currently paying. Their policy was to pad the overall cost with a mandatory and lengthy preflight briefing and then debriefing - all at $65/hr instructor time.
 
Dry Creek said:
True.
I had one instructor at Nationwide Aviation KCPT that was excellent. He had family ties to the Cleburne area. The problem was the lessons were about 25% higher than what I'm currently paying. Their policy was to pad the overall cost with a mandatory and lengthy preflight briefing and then debriefing - all at $65/hr instructor time.
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I am a senior instructor, in my 70s, not going anywhere. Our rates are $50 for instruction, ground and air, with a discount if you schedule more than two hours. No reason to "pad" preflight and debriefing. Our scheduling online gives a standard two-hour reservation, but we rarely use that entire time, and we charge for the actual time, not the scheduled time.

I am not doing this for the money. I love to fly and love to pass it on. Our business doesn't make much money on instruction and rentals, it makes money on selling fuel, primarily to business jets that take a lot. There is no incentive to pad instructor times.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I am a senior instructor, in my 70s, not going anywhere. Our rates are $50 for instruction, ground and air, with a discount if you schedule more than two hours. No reason to "pad" preflight and debriefing. Our scheduling online gives a standard two-hour reservation, but we rarely use that entire time, and we charge for the actual time, not the scheduled time.

I am not doing this for the money. I love to fly and love to pass it on. Our business doesn't make much money on instruction and rentals, it makes money on selling fuel, primarily to business jets that take a lot. There is no incentive to pad instructor times.
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Too bad you're not closer.
I have an instructor that I work pretty well with now, but I have a suspicion that they are going to pull her to their Denton school. Right now, I think I am her only student at Granbury, and she is only available on Fridays. They are losing three instructors in the next two weeks. They have a waiting list up at DTO, and I am betting that paying her to fly down and back for one student, one day a week isn't sustainable. I will probably be moved over to a relatively new instructor they have there. He is already booked pretty solid, so paying him to fly the plane down and back every day he works may be cost effective.

What we haven't figured out is how I am supposed to get my solo time in now that they don't a plane based at GDJ. It's getting pretty frustrating. I am on a close timer now. My 2-year period for the written is up this December. Due to weather, equipment issues and illnesses, it is looking like I may never finish. Also a day of crosswind landings that went pretty rough has me really thinking about whether or not I really do have the coordination and reflexes at 60 to learn a three-dimensional skill any more.

Around here the flight schools are jokingly known as "Envoy Puppy Mills", although they also have a full pipeline to Piedmont and SkyWest.
 
Dry Creek said:
True.
I had one instructor at Nationwide Aviation KCPT that was excellent. He had family ties to the Cleburne area. The problem was the lessons were about 25% higher than what I'm currently paying. Their policy was to pad the overall cost with a mandatory and lengthy preflight briefing and then debriefing - all at $65/hr instructor time.
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LOL sounds like the guy I have now. Although I don’t mind paying him his fee as he is very detailed on the preflight and post flight stuff which I feel will help me finish. I am almost there anyhow even with the bad weather. Just a couple things to fix and then check ride soon hopefully.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
I admitted I was wrong for my response but RGbeards reply to me wasn't so nice or necessary not to mention inaccurate.
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yes, buttercup. I was a little brisk. There’s no rule here that says every post has to be sweet, nice and supportive. Maybe you caught me in an unwelcoming mood. It happens. Maybe I was reading too much Reddit the few minutes before I read your post. You know what questions from inquisitive idiots can do to your mindset.

I’ve been called an idiot before. By people more impactful in my life than you. I’m over it.

I’m just looking forward to hearing that you got handled by a tower controller or center controller that wasn’t so sweet and supportive either. Maybe you’ll lose your cool with them next. I’m stocking up on the popcorn.

By the way, I am mostly a teddybear of rainbows and cotton candy compared to some on here. Pilots can be argumentative, pedantic and unforgiving of even minor errors. It has something to do with our DNA maybe? ;-)

However we can also be helpful, welcoming, supportive and generous. I don’t know another group of human beings that I would happily buy a drink for and spend an afternoon with than about anyone on this board. This includes you. Good luck in your research.
 
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JOhnH said:
Remove the word "probably" from your flying vocabulary:

I can "probably" make that.
The weather will "probably clear up before I get there"
I "probably" have enough fuel.
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Yes, reminds me of the old aviation rule that says "If the phrase 'I think I can' pops into your head, then don't do it!". So for instance, if you are off course in lining up for the runway on a landing, and the thought is "I think I can make this turn", then don't do it, and go around!
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I am a senior instructor, in my 70s, not going anywhere.
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The chief flight instructor and one of the staff instructors at my local field are long timers. The CFI is probably about your age, as he spent time (rotary wing) in the far off place you did. The other is a younger guy, but he has NO DESIRE to go to the airlines.
 
Dry Creek said:
… He is already booked pretty solid, so paying him to fly the plane down and back every day he works may be cost effective.

What we haven't figured out is how I am supposed to get my solo time in now that they don't a plane based at GDJ. It's getting pretty frustrating...
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You need to take 10 days and go up there. Fly every day; pt61 only requires 10hrs solo, half of which is cross-country. That’s two flights. The remaining 5 hrs can be knocked out just as quick.
 
Rgbeard said:
yes, buttercup. I was a little brisk. There’s no rule here that says every post has to be sweet, nice and supportive. Maybe you caught me in an unwelcoming mood. It happens. Maybe I was reading too much Reddit the few minutes before I read your post. You know what questions from inquisitive idiots can do to your mindset.

I’ve been called an idiot before. By people more impactful in my life than you. I’m over it.

I’m just looking forward to hearing that you got handled by a tower controller or center controller that wasn’t so sweet and supportive either. Maybe you’ll lose your cool with them next. I’m stocking up on the popcorn.

By the way, I am mostly a teddybear of rainbows and cotton candy compared to some on here. Pilots can be argumentative, pedantic and unforgiving of even minor errors. It has something to do with our DNA maybe? ;-)

However we can also be helpful, welcoming, supportive and generous. I don’t know another group of human beings that I would happily buy a drink for and spend an afternoon with than about anyone on this board. This includes you. Good luck in your research.
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Ha..pretty funny actually. I think I like you…thank you and again I apologize….sincerely.
 
Do you need to complete the training and take the test within certain period of time? I can’t imagine dragging it on for several years as you’d just naturally forget some of the info you studied.
I ask because it’s expensive and would be easier to speed it out over time.
 
Everyone says fly multiple times a week. Not all of us can do that. I am finding the final stretch with specific procedures the issue. The flying part is fine I go couple weeks and come back and my instructor says hands and feet’s are all there, but then small things creeps up that needs correction.

For me though there isn’t a lot of options, weekdays aren’t viable so I can only do weekends and only one day at that to keep “the boss” out of my hair. Well unless she’s feeling in a good mood then sometimes she tells me to go both weekend days.

Yeah you’ll forget stuff. Heck I think my partners all forget things. And they are all licensed.

Btw besides letting go of fear, might be good to stop counting how much you spent lol.
 
Mstrlucky74 said:
Do you need to complete the training and take the test within certain period of time? I can’t imagine dragging it on for several years as you’d just naturally forget some of the info you studied.
I ask because it’s expensive and would be easier to speed it out over time.
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The only thing that expires is the written test. That is good for two years after you take it, and you can take it any time in your training as long as it's before the checkride.

It's probably actually less expensive to fly more often, because flying skills are perishable. If you fly once a month to make the monthly bill more palatable, you will spend the majority of your lessons relearning the feel of the airplane instead of learning new things, especially in the beginning. I was only able to fly once or twice on weekends for the majority of my flight training, and even a week-long gap sucked for me in the beginning. The weekends I got to fly Saturday and Sunday, the difference between my flying abilities on Saturday versus Sunday was pretty significant. As I got farther into training, the muscle memory took much longer to fade, and there were times I'd go a couple of weeks or nearly a month without flying and was able to just jump right back into where I'd left off.
 
Half Fast said:
By and large, though, the folks on this site are intelligent, very well educated, and quite successful. It's pretty tough to become a pilot and aircraft owner if you're not. POA is filled with physicians, engineers, scientists, business people, attorneys, professional airline pilots, entrepeneurs, military officers, college professors, etc. The number of folks here who have advanced degrees is astounding.
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Not to dog-pile on the OP, but it is worth mentioning that these experts, whose skills and knowledge are often very marketable, will spend time to share their knowledge on this site free of charge. This thread is a perfect example.
 
guest user said:
Ask what kind of aircraft they use A Cirrus or Diamond will cost a good bit more than a Cessna or Piper.
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Good advice. However, a Diamond may not necessarily cost more than a Cessna. I did my basic in a Diamond DA-20 (2 seater) that was cheaper than the basic 172 (4 seater) that was available, and of course, the 172 with a G1000 panel. It was also a blast to fly.
 
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