VOR approach requiring DME but approach not named as VORDME

[Velocity173]

I haven't got that far into it, but surely between Minot, Grand Forks, and Ellsworth there should be one. If not, at least they ought to be set up for ASR approaches which I understand are flown like PAR without vertical guidance.

Don't think any of those bases have PAR or ASR approaches. AF has gradually downsized their GCA capability over the years. Army, Navy / Marines still use PARs heavily though. Might be quite a trek from your area to get to one.

Looks like KBIS or KFSD would be your closest for an ASR.

 

[iamtheari]

Don't think any of those bases have PAR or ASR approaches. AF has gradually downsized their GCA capability over the years. Army, Navy / Marines still use PARs heavily though. Might be quite a trek from your area to get to one.

Looks like KBIS or KFSD would be your closest for an ASR.

Yeah, we don't have an abundance of naval bases here in the hinterland. How does one determine whether a base has PAR capabilities? I'll have to remember to ask KBIS approach for an ASR next time I am flying there with lots of spare time.

 

[Velocity173]

Yeah, we don't have an abundance of naval bases here in the hinterland. How does one determine whether a base has PAR capabilities? I'll have to remember to ask KBIS approach for an ASR next time I am flying there with lots of spare time.

Well I use Airnav for my airport planning. They'll list any radar approaches below the normal IAPs. Or, if you have an approach plate for your area (NC-1), it'll be listed in the radar mins section like below.

ASRs are OK. They're something different to do but the mins are quite high compared to a PAR. It's just not the lack of glidepath either. They use a less precise approach course vs a PAR. It's also referenced from runway end vs touchdown on a PAR. A lot of ASRs will drop you off at the MDA a mile out where as a PAR will take you to DH about 1/4 to 1/2 mile out.

https://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/NC-1/rst_radar_minimums.pdf

 

[iamtheari]

Well I use Airnav for my airport planning. They'll list any radar approaches below the normal IAPs. Or, if you have an approach plate for your area (NC-1), it'll be listed in the radar mins section like below.

ASRs are OK. They're something different but there mins are quite high compared to a PAR. It's just not the lack of glidepath either. They use a less precise approach course vs a PAR. A lot of ASRs will drop you off at the MDA a mile out where as a PAR will take you to DH about 1/4 to 1/2 mile out.

https://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/NC-1/rst_radar_minimums.pdf

Awesome tip about the TPP book. I should have read through it more thoroughly. Thanks!

 

[flyingron]

ASRs are OK. They're something different but the mins are quite high compared to a PAR. It's just not the lack of glidepath either. They use a less precise approach course vs a PAR. A lot of ASRs will drop you off at the MDA a mile out where as a PAR will take you to DH about 1/4 to 1/2 mile out.

And while it is apparently flakey, if there are radar mins in the front of the book for an airport there's supposed to be an "ASR" in the same place you'll find the triangle-T and/or triangle-A for the takeoff/alternate mins. Something NACO picked up from Jepp.

 

[luvflyin]

I agree, with radar coverage being what it is today, I can't imagine too many facilities using non radar timed approaches, unless it's a tower in a mountainous area.

But, the procedures are still written for facilities where either radar doesn't exist, or what mscard is getting at, you lose radar at your own facility. That's when you bust out your little non radar "cheat card" from your wallet and pray the techs get the radar back ASAP.

KHIO uses them or did very recently. They may have Radar coverage to the ground now with Fusion Radar. They used "Radar interval" timed approaches. There was Radar at altitude to put the planes on final but it didn't go low enough so the only way to have more than one plane cleared for the approach at a time was to use timed approaches. I'm sure there's more than just a couple places around the country that use them routinely