FlightmechH3
Pre-takeoff checklist
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FlightmechH3
Flat spin going in.
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ATR-72. Absolutely amazing video.Flat spin going in.
Amazing isn't the adjective I'd use.ATR-72. Absolutely amazing video.
Ron Wanttaja
Wow. Those speed excursions are something else, especially for a constant-altitude, straight-line flight. Either it’s a data error, or they were dealing with some ridiculous icing conditions (or other mechanical issues, but I kind of doubt it).I copped this from X, don't know if it's genuine, but matches other stuff.
View attachment 132299
Guarulhos was landing opposite direction, on the 28s at the time. The EVRAL arrivals all have a minimum alt of FL170 at GR251, which is a few miles to the west of SBKP.Anyone else notice that it was 17k ft until it crossed the center line of the approach runway at the time? Then seems to dive/stall rather quickly from 17k-2k (over 10kft/min descent).
Odd that they would have flown to that fix still 15k over the airport. Nothing like any of the previous approaches flown on the same route.
Wow, so sorry for the families left behind.
Saw this pic apparently from inside on Reddit.
Not sure what it even represents.
I had heard they asked for lower due to icing and where denied by ATC.
That is not an ATR. The ATR's gear extends from the body of the fuselage, not the engine nacelle. It looks like a Dash-8.Saw this pic apparently from inside on Reddit.
Not sure what it even represents.
Yes.That is not an ATR. The ATR's gear extends from the body of the fuselage, not the engine nacelle. It looks like a Dash-8.
I had ATC deny me lower once because of ice. I said “Well, I don’t want to go down either, but I don’t have much choice. I can declare an emergency if you want.”
View attachment 132307
View attachment 132308
View attachment 132309
Note how the boots are clean, but the unprotected surfaces behind them are VERY not clean. I quit taking pictures when the tail started shaking…
That is some ugly icing. The ice below the wing adds weight and drag, but the real danger is ice on top of the wing that kills lift, and you cant see that from the pictures. Looks like a close call. Caravan, I assume?
Apropos of nothing, do we really need "Juan Brown" to say it, for people to know that? It's truly scary that there are an entire class of pilots out there so obsequious to ATC, they rather watch themselves die before execrising a modicum of self-preservation and vacate altitudes/headings/airspeeds on their own recognizance. I know myself enough to know I don't want to deal with being an SIC in an environment where i'd have to cede to people who resemble the remark; I wouldn't last long at that job. People can do stupid pilot tricks on their own time, but they ain't taking me with them after all I've done so far in my career to come home alive.
Tell ATC? sure, I consider myself a corteous man in most instances. Asking/bargaining with ATC? hell naw.
Well, death or “a lot of trouble” …. decisions, decisions….So... one more thing to consider.
Brazilian ATC is run by the military, and from past incidents/accidents in that area it looks like you can get into a lot of trouble if you deviate from their instructions.
That might explain the crew's actions.
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Maybe...but it could be just that. At this point, not seeing anything that would point to other than severe icing, failure of pilots to recognize or execute checklist in time, LOC, unrecoverable flat spin.Because there's more to this swiss cheese model than just "the pilot f'ed up".
I believe a plane like ATR 72 may actually not be recoverable in certain spin scenarios ( depending on COG configuration ) ….Does anyone know at what altitude the plane exited the clouds? It's important because it gives us a sense of how long they had to get out of the spin.
The video is painful to watch because the spin remains flat throughout, and no apparent effort is made to get out of it (stick in center, push forward, and opposite rudder).
I also fly sailplanes and this recovery sequence is second nature to me.
Are airline pilots not trained for this simple maneuver? The Air France accident over the ocean in Brazil also hit the water with a flat spin. In this case they didn't trust their airspeed. Maybe the pilots in this accident refused to believe an airspeed of 20 kts too. GPS speed would be a clue.
Condolences to the families.