Vision Jet autoland

Chip Sylverne said:
So basically it's attitude hold in a GA plane. Cool, they should make that a regular feature, not just an emergency deal.
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So basically it's not at all attitude hold. If you read the write-up on it it automates the entire landing sequence, flaps, gear, talks to air traffic control via speech-to-text, etc
 
I guess my "180" button is so 2018....
Great stuff...
 
Tantalum said:
So basically it's not at all attitude hold. If you read the write-up on it it automates the entire landing sequence, flaps, gear, talks to air traffic control via speech-to-text, etc
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Gilding the lily. I'd settle for attitude hold. With that, pretty much anyone could land an aircraft safely. Rarely are people injured in a gear up.
 
Tantalum said:
Credit and debit! It's the American way!
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:D

Ok, I could write the check, but I would not survive the beating afterward from my wife as I'd have to raid both of our retirement savings for even a used one. :eek: Then I would erode the savings even more if I flew it enough to stay proficient. :( I can afford flying a SR22, but not a SF50.
 
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Two questions:

1.) what if there are not useable airport options within fuel range?
2.) can the pilot regain control? Or once the system is on.. then it's on?
 
Tantalum said:
2.) can the pilot regain control? Or once the system is on.. then it's on?
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If you read the write up ;), it says there is a disconnect button on the pilot's yoke if a passenger "inadvertently" engages it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The goal is there for commercial aviation, too.

It won't affect your career (or likely even mine). Will it happen eventually? Probably, and I'm not a an of that for a number of reasons. But I also don't see it being ubiquitous, it will likely just get to the point where only the enthusiasts will drive/fly themselves.
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I disagree. The only way to make it "safe" is to outlaw any vehicle not a part of the swarm. Enthusiasts will not be allowed. They are too unpredictable.
 
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So this is for pilots incapacitated but most crashes happen from pilot error. A system that says “hey don’t do that, you’re gonna rip my wings off, bank angle stall, don’t try that 180 back, vmc roll incoming, etc” would be good too.
 
Rein Hart said:
So this is for pilots incapacitated but most crashes happen from pilot error. A system that says “hey don’t do that, you’re gonna rip my wings off, bank angle stall, don’t try that 180 back, vmc roll incoming, etc” would be good too.
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Most of those scenarios have CAS associated messages or other safety features like ESP (enhanced stability protection) to remind the pilot of limitations and say “hey dummy, you can’t do that!”
 
Rein Hart said:
So this is for pilots incapacitated but most crashes happen from pilot error. A system that says “hey don’t do that, you’re gonna rip my wings off, bank angle stall, don’t try that 180 back, vmc roll incoming, etc” would be good too.
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You’re talking about envelope protection which has been around forever on big iron and in modern GA for the past few years or so. Cirrus and Garmin incorporates quite a few envelope protection features in the SR22 and I’m sure the SF50 has way more already.
 
AKiss20 said:
You’re talking about envelope protection which has been around forever on big iron and in modern GA for the past few years or so. Cirrus and Garmin incorporates quite a few envelope protection features in the SR22 and I’m sure the SF50 has way more already.
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My thoughts were more for the smaller general aviation aircraft like pipers, cessnas, and mooneys but I see your point on the more expensive platforms.
 
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Rein Hart said:
My thoughts were more for the smaller general aviation aircraft like pipers, cessnas, and mooneys but I see your point on the more expensive platforms.
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As far as I know the Garmin GFC500 allows for envelope protection and is available for many of these more standard GA planes. As I said also, it’s not just the SF50 but also the SR22 that has it from Cirrus. The safe return/auto land feature is only on the SF50 and the Piper M600 right now I think but apparently Garmin is exploring retrofit possibilities.
 
All I've managed to find online are these creatively edited sales pitch videos. Is there a raw video of one of these systems actually operating?
 
midwestpa24 said:
All I've managed to find online are these creatively edited sales pitch videos. Is there a raw video of one of these systems actually operating?
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AvWeb did a decent job with this one:

I did notice that someone moved the gear selector when the camera wasn't looking. But, if it were my plane, I would do the same thing after the autoland system put the gear down for me. The next takeoff in the plane could get awkward otherwise.
 
I can just see the first actual use. The SF50 will select a 4800ft x 75 runway at a uncontrolled airport. As it lands and rolls out it slices right through another plane on the runway. Somehow the occupants of the vision jet live but a couple of people die in the small plane. The wealthy person in the jet gets sued but uses his financial and legal powers and never pays a penny. Maybe even files a suit against Cirrus for the damage to his plane.

The other interesting thing is that if CAPs is to save the day why does it even need a autoland...because they are hoping to save the plane? Or is there some other weakness of the CAPs system they are trying to fill in.

Actually, if it works I think is pretty dang cool. But the final phase once in the pattern and landing seems a bit under thought as there is no way to clear the traffic or runway in its path.
 
Sinistar said:
I can just see the first actual use. The SF50 will select a 4800ft x 75 runway at a uncontrolled airport. As it lands and rolls out it slices right through another plane on the runway. Somehow the occupants of the vision jet live but a couple of people die in the small plane. The wealthy person in the jet gets sued but uses his financial and legal powers and never pays a penny. Maybe even files a suit against Cirrus for the damage to his plane.

The other interesting thing is that if CAPs is to save the day why does it even need a autoland...because they are hoping to save the plane? Or is there some other weakness of the CAPs system they are trying to fill in.

Actually, if it works I think is pretty dang cool. But the final phase once in the pattern and landing seems a bit under thought as there is no way to clear the traffic or runway in its path.
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I thought I read that part of the software is the plane communicating intentions. I'd think it would be announcing emergency landing from pretty far out.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I thought I read that part of the software is the plane communicating intentions. I'd think it would be announcing emergency landing from pretty far out.
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If its only talking on 121.5 and a APP/DEP/Center frequency it isn't going to be of any use at the uncontrolled airports. I don't know any pilots that listen to guard while flying. Ideally it would auto-tune the Unicom for the destination airport and just cycle from guard to Unicom to center while it does its landing.
 
Sinistar said:
If its only talking on 121.5 and a APP/DEP/Center frequency it isn't going to be of any use at the uncontrolled airports. I don't know any pilots that listen to guard while flying. Ideally it would auto-tune the Unicom for the destination airport and just cycle from guard to Unicom to center while it does its landing.
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Yes, I would assume the software is designed to be broadcasting on CTAF as well as the other frequencies. This whole thing is interesting. Autonomous flying seems to be an easier nut to crack than autonomous cars.
 
Sinistar said:
If its only talking on 121.5 and a APP/DEP/Center frequency it isn't going to be of any use at the uncontrolled airports. I don't know any pilots that listen to guard while flying. Ideally it would auto-tune the Unicom for the destination airport and just cycle from guard to Unicom to center while it does its landing.
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"Why on earth would you ever build a bridge to cross that river? We have boats that can get across the river."

Same idea.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
"Why on earth would you ever build a bridge to cross that river? We have boats that can get across the river."

Same idea.
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I am much more skeptical of the rise of automation (especially in cars where people are *still* claiming SAE level 5 is only a few years away despite the learnings of the past 5 years) but what I do find amazing is that people seem to demand that automation be 100% capable and reliable before it should ever be used. Automation doesn't have to be 100% before it can be useful, it just has to be a net positive to the system. I think it is pretty undeniable that this new Garmin technology, while it is not 100% reliable and cannot handle 100% of possible scenarios, is orders of magnitude better than the case before it: an untrained passenger trying to land an aircraft (and currently a pretty high performance one) on their own or at best being talked down by ATC (if they can figure out how to even talk to ATC, which this system also makes much easier to do for untrained passengers).
 
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FastEddieB said:
Well, now you can say you know one!

Seriously, it’s required by FDC NOTAM “when capable”. It’s not a bad idea, regardless.
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Now he knows another. I always monitor guard, unless too many idiots are going "Meow"
 
I not only monitor, I have reported locator beacons twice to ATC. Fortunately, both were already reported, and aircraft on fields that had apparently made really hard landings.

Nice to make the report, and have no need to start a search pattern to see which way it is from your present location.

One of the partners in the club did such a search, spoiling his cross country trip, and again locating a plane on a small airfield with their beacon tripped.
 
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Cluemeister said:
Certification will be the longest step in the process. I would expect we will see this feature in the experimental world next.
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The G3X Touch has had an approximately five year lead on Garmin's certified systems, (as well as a far more intuitive interface.) The auto throttle might make for a more difficult installation, though. Autoland seems like a safer alternative, for a non-pilot passenger, to pulling a parachute.
 
Tantalum said:
Two questions:

1.) what if there are not useable airport options within fuel range?
2.) can the pilot regain control? Or once the system is on.. then it's on?
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Good questions! Also,
What if there is a disabled aircraft on the runway? Deer on the runway??? Etc.
I assume it checks the METARs as part of the wx decision which could be an hour old.

Lot's of questions...
 
Ah, the future for dogs as off the street captains, captains going back to FOs, FOs going back to Mom and Dad's, draweth neigh.

Anyone This one guy I know that has sat at the controls of an airliner attempting an autoland can tell ya a story or two said this to me in a calm, collected voice: "She's a heading twerd da terminal! Tow-gah go around flaps 15! Call maintenance!" /Sarcasam
 
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Anyone seen a price for this option?
 
Dumb questions:

1. This requires some type of radar altimeter...is that a relatively cheap device since the price of the planes did not increase?
2. How would they control the wheel brakes? What if the pilot touches the rudder pedals would it just override the autoland brakes or the entire autoland.
 
Sinistar said:
Dumb questions:

1. This requires some type of radar altimeter...is that a relatively cheap device since the price of the planes did not increase?
2. How would they control the wheel brakes? What if the pilot touches the rudder pedals would it just override the autoland brakes or the entire autoland.
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Cheap is subjective but I’d start around $10,000 and go up from there. We’ve got a Terra Radar Altimeter at work has and I think they’re maybe $10-12K new.
 
Flocker said:
Good questions! Also,
What if there is a disabled aircraft on the runway? Deer on the runway??? Etc.
I assume it checks the METARs as part of the wx decision which could be an hour old.

Lot's of questions...
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It’s an emergency landing with an incapacitated pilot. Perfect circumstances aren’t a requirement. If there’s a disabled plane on the runway then someone’s bad day ends up worse.

I’m guessing it doesn’t care what the weather minimums are. It’s just flying it into the ground in a controlled manner anyway.
 
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