Vfr Flight plans

Pinstriper

Pinstriper

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Pinstriper
So a buddy of mine was sort of flabber gasted today when he asked me if I filed a flight plan this past Sunday when I flew to the coast and I said no. The trip is 116nm straight west and I get FF as soon as I depart OVE and also LLR on the way back (about 5mi after departure) I also got a standard briefing from Lockheed Martin.. At 175hrs he said I was learning bad habits? So what the consensus here? Should I file? After all I'm talking to ATC..
 
My policy is that ideally I should have someone on the ground who knows my flight path and approximate takeoff/landing times. If there isn't a single person who can do that for me, then I'll call Lockheed and file, however I really don't remember the last time I files a VFR flight plan.

You can't always rely on ATC because they can be busy or you may be out of radio range.

Either way I don't see how you can be learning bad habits by not filing.
 
I only filed a flight plan one time and it was a 3 hour leg beginning at 9 PM with wife and kids in the plane.

I get FF and generally someone on the ground knows where I am going. No real need for a flight plan IMO.
 
I've more or less given up on VFR flight plans after a few experiences having a really hard time getting through to FSS to open them in the air. Plus, the areas I'm flying are very well radar covered anyway, and I take flight following. That being said, I did file (and open!) the couple of times recently I flew over sparsely populated Appalachia at night.
 
The only real downside to not filing a VFR flight plan is, what happens if you don't have flight following?

Remember that FF is an as available service and generally requires radar coverage.

In certain parts of the country, radar coverage can be problematic, especially at lower altitudes or over mountainous terrain.

And ATC can get busy. I've heard Miami Center (not exactly a radar coverage problem) deny FF to a number of pilots (I was on an IFR flight plan). My own first experience with a denial was when I was on a student solo cross country in New England and encountered unforecast weather. The unanticipated lowering ceilings meant ATC was extra busy and didn't even respond to my calls. That taught me that the time you might not get FF are exactly the times you want it the most.

That's just information. Whether or not you file a VFR flight plan is your decision.
 
I don't file but I fly in the southeast. Haven't had any issues with radar coverage.
 
Filing online is easy. It's a good precaution in case flight following isn't available. (It's also easy to get a briefing online. It's been years since I've used a phone call for briefing, for filing, or for closing a plan.)
 
I rarely file VFR (exceptions are using VFR Lake Services to cross the Great Lakes at night - and to pass through Canadian airspace without having to file an International Flight Plan)
I Never talk to ATC if there is a way to avoid it
If I crash and die (shrug) they will figure it out someday
If I am in the air and having problems and no one is answering the radio there are the 7000 codes on the transponder to get attention
If I am below radar there is the ELT switch on the panel
(not sure why I would bother with either when the guy on the ground cannot fly the plane for me)
If you have to depend on someone on the ground to bail your butt out you had no business leaving the ground in the first place - period

A typical long XC flight for me is going from Michigan to Florida and back and not using the radio except for unicom when landing and taking off. I manage to pull it off roughly half the time - the other half weather forces me to file or I have passengers that need to be dropped off at a controlled airport. If these are bad habits they seem to work for me

Let me caution you about routinely using VFR filing. What becomes routine soon becomes enshrined in regulation. And you know how much we need more regulations over GA :hairraise:
 
Dr. O said:
If I crash and die (shrug) they will figure it out someday
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It's more useful if you happen to crash and live.

Let me caution you about routinely using VFR filing. What becomes routine soon becomes enshrined in regulation.
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But many pilots have routinely filed VFR plans for decades. It remains voluntary.
 
I would concur that if you're getting flight following, filing a VFR flight plan is generally redundant. If you don't check in with the next sector/facility, they will start looking for you.

I do have a little trick for flight following, particularly if you aren't flying a straight line from A-to-B and want to put some waypoints in the plan. Your mileage may vary between ATC facilities on this. Go online and file an IFR flight plan, except in the altitude box, put 'VFR'. You can put in an altitude if you'd like: for 6500 you'd put in VFR/065. Foreflight and DTC Duat will accept this, I have never tried with any other online filing service.

What this does is put your flight plan "in the system" and when you call for flight following (or call clearance delivery at a towered airport), ATC will have your route and squawk code. Along the same lines, if you file IFR and decide you just want FF, you can tell ATC you have an IFR on file, but would like to just get flight following. The controller will make the 'VFR' entry in the computer, and the end result will be the same. Since you're already in the system and the controller doesn't have to put in your information, you will have a much higher chance of getting the flight following all the way to your destination and not just to the facility's airspace boundary.
 
acrophile said:
Filing online is easy. It's a good precaution in case flight following isn't available. (It's also easy to get a briefing online. It's been years since I've used a phone call for briefing, for filing, or for closing a plan.)
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This and this. I used LM's EasyActivate/EasyClose service for the first time on Sunday and it was brilliant. Filed online at the LM site, got the email with a link to open the plan and clicked the link just before takeoff, landed and there was an email with a link to close it waiting for me.

 
Jmcmanna said:
I do have a little trick for flight following, particularly if you aren't flying a straight line from A-to-B and want to put some waypoints in the plan. Your mileage may vary between ATC facilities on this. Go online and file an IFR flight plan, except in the altitude box, put 'VFR'. You can put in an altitude if you'd like: for 6500 you'd put in VFR/065. Foreflight and DTC Duat will accept this, I have never tried with any other online filing service.
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You're about to resurrect a very old subject. I personally have used this method in the past before I was instrument rated, and might use it again in the future if I'm out of IFR currency, but it's come out in the last couple of years that the FAA strongly frowns on using it (other than in the SFRA) by pilots who are not legal to fly under IFR. There is a (in my opinion, totally illogical) General Counsel opinion out there to the effect that checking the IFR box will be interpreted by them as evidence of intent to operate under IFR even if a clearance is neither asked for nor picked up.

The only muddy point is that the question leading to the GC opinion misstated the details of the technique and spoke of "putting a VFR altitude in the altitude box" instead of "VFR", which as you said changes the semantics of the flight plan. Whether the GC could be convinced that the technique, done as you described, is okay for a non-IFR-legal pilot is an open question.

I posted a link to the letter a while back but can't find it at the moment; a search on "Goodish letter" might turn it up.
 
azure said:
You're about to resurrect a very old subject. I personally have used this method in the past before I was instrument rated, and might use it again in the future if I'm out of IFR currency, but it's come out in the last couple of years that the FAA strongly frowns on using it (other than in the SFRA) by pilots who are not legal to fly under IFR. There is a (in my opinion, totally illogical) General Counsel opinion out there to the effect that checking the IFR box will be interpreted by them as evidence of intent to operate under IFR even if a clearance is neither asked for nor picked up.
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I believe that I am the one (or one of the ones) who wrote to the FAA and received a response on this matter. Whatever your opinion on the practice, there is nothing illogical about interpreting the filing of an IFR flight plan as an intent to operate IFR. On the contrary, it is illogical and nonintuitive to assume an intent to operate VFR when an IFR flight plan is filed, which is where the risk lies for the pilot who is not rated or equipped for IFR flight.

Regardless, I believe that FF remains a service provided as long as workload permits, and therefore the filing of a flight plan is not likely to impact whether it is provided. With that being said, I almost never file VFR flight plans, but will request FF, and am almost never denied. Sometimes I'm dropped on the handoff, but I can usually call the next facility and have FF re-established.


JKG
 
I can't remember the last time I've filed a VFR flight plan. Most of my routes take me places where a VFR flight plan buys me little to nothing if I go down.

I won't usually call for FF on short flights, but I generally will on long ones, and on long night flights even in clear conditions, I might file IFR just to guarantee I have someone to talk to that already knows who and where I am if something goes South.
 
Vinny said:
I used LM's EasyActivate/EasyClose service for the first time on Sunday and it was brilliant. Filed online at the LM site, got the email with a link to open the plan and clicked the link just before takeoff, landed and there was an email with a link to close it waiting for me.
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Cool. I hadn't known about that. I've been using DUATS, which doesn't have an online option to open a flight plan. That makes the VFR flight plan even more convenient.
 
Usually don't file VFR flight plans. I either file IFR,or go without a flight plan with flight following. A lot of the time now of you ask for FF AtC puts you in the system. Have had VFR flights with FF show up on flight aware.
 
I have only filed a VFR flight plan a hand full of times and only opened a few of those. I always make sure someone knows where I am going. I have a spot tracking unit and pass along the link to family. I will prob start opening VFR flight plans more often now that you can open and close through foreflight and it seems very simple and easy. I was told by my instructor and many other pilots that you are actually safer to have someone that cares about you know where you are going and when to expect to hear from you. whether that is true or not??
 
JGoodish said:
I believe that I am the one (or one of the ones) who wrote to the FAA and received a response on this matter. Whatever your opinion on the practice, there is nothing illogical about interpreting the filing of an IFR flight plan as an intent to operate IFR.
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It is illogical to infer that a flight plan with the IFR box checked is an IFR flight plan. If "VFR" or "VFR/xxx" is in the altitude box, the resulting flight plan is NOT an IFR flight plan and should NOT result in an IFR clearance being issued.
 
JasonM said:
I was told by my instructor and many other pilots that you are actually safer to have someone that cares about you know where you are going and when to expect to hear from you. whether that is true or not??
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Easy way to tell if their information is reliable: did they mention any evidence for it?

I myself have never heard of an incident where a filed and activated flight plan failed to trigger a search and rescue effort when the plane was overdue.

Of course, there's no harm in filing a flight plan and also having family or friends know when to expect you.
 
frfly172 said:
Usually don't file VFR flight plans. I either file IFR,or go without a flight plan with flight following. A lot of the time now of you ask for FF AtC puts you in the system. Have had VFR flights with FF show up on flight aware.
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Yep. This is what I do. I seldom file VFR flight plans and if I'm VFR, I'll just get FF
 
Our club requires a flight plan if you are traveling more than 100 miles from home or flying across the Cascades. Typically if I'm going over the Cascades I'm filing IFR (weather requiring it or not) and N-S trips are less than 100 miles. I typically get FF if flying VFR and have never been turned down by Seattle center or approach.
 
Jmcmanna said:
I would concur that if you're getting flight following, filing a VFR flight plan is generally redundant. If you don't check in with the next sector/facility, they will start looking for you.
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I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I can clarify this, but my understanding is that they won't go looking for you if you just fail to check in, etc. To my mind the benefit of FF is that you have a location and some form of strip if you need to make an emergency call, and if you start to descend at 2000 fpm you might get lucky and have someone notice. But to the best of my knowledge just falling off the map as a VFR FF, nothing will happen. I've on rare occasions heard exchanges:
"bugsmasher 2345, change to center frequency xxx.xx"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, change to center frequency xxx.xx"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, are you receiving?"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, radar contact lost, squawk VFR and have a good day"
 
mcmanigle said:
I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I can clarify this, but my understanding is that they won't go looking for you if you just fail to check in, etc. To my mind the benefit of FF is that you have a location and some form of strip if you need to make an emergency call, and if you start to descend at 2000 fpm you might get lucky and have someone notice. But to the best of my knowledge just falling off the map as a VFR FF, nothing will happen. I've on rare occasions heard exchanges:
"bugsmasher 2345, change to center frequency xxx.xx"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, change to center frequency xxx.xx"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, are you receiving?"
[no response]
"bugsmasher 2345, radar contact lost, squawk VFR and have a good day"
Click to expand...

At my facility, we had a small VFR aircraft that was looking for flight following out of the Chicago area, but the controller put him 'in the system'. He was instructed to contact Chicago center, but the pilot never checked in, just squawked 1200 and went on his way. His code was still active in the system, and 30 mins after his ETA (the computer estimates this) they began S&R for him. Once you've been radar identified, ATC has some responsibility to account for you.
 
I've been denied FF about as many times as I've gotten it. The only times that I've been almost guaranteed to get it is when headed very close to ATL class B. As when going under one layer, and close to another layer.
 
The purpose of a VFR flight plan is so that someone starts looking for your downed aircraft if you run into trouble and don't show up on time right?

Well, I see the point of that if you're over water or in Alaska or over a desert- basically anywhere that you could crash or make an emergency landing without anyone seeing you. Otherwise who would know, where would they look?

But over land throughout most of the mainland US what are the odds nobody would see you and come looking before you'd even be missed at your destination? I'm seriously asking, any statistics or interesting stories?
 
cowman said:
But over land throughout most of the mainland US what are the odds nobody would see you and come looking before you'd even be missed at your destination? I'm seriously asking, any statistics or interesting stories?
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That would be an interesting statistic. I am sure there are plenty of cases. In eastern San Diego, there is a lot of desert and mountains where no one would see you if you went down. I am sure there are plenty of similar areas of low population over which people fly.
 
Come fly in AZ. In most places, nobody will find you. We had a couple in a 172 go down 10 miles outside Sedona. They found the plane (and maybe a couple of bones) 2 years later.
 
Yeah I can believe that. I'm used to flying VFR here in the midwest where I can see dozens of farmhouses at all times.
 
I learned back there. After moving here, I became hugely paranoid about encounters with terrain (at night) and SAR issues.
 
Dr. O said:
Let me caution you about routinely using VFR filing. What becomes routine soon becomes enshrined in regulation. And you know how much we need more regulations over GA :hairraise:
Click to expand...

There are so many pilots who say they don't file, that I would say filing is a long long way from becoming the norm.
 
azure said:
You're about to resurrect a very old subject. I personally have used this method in the past before I was instrument rated, and might use it again in the future if I'm out of IFR currency, but it's come out in the last couple of years that the FAA strongly frowns on using it (other than in the SFRA) by pilots who are not legal to fly under IFR. There is a (in my opinion, totally illogical) General Counsel opinion out there to the effect that checking the IFR box will be interpreted by them as evidence of intent to operate under IFR even if a clearance is neither asked for nor picked up.

The only muddy point is that the question leading to the GC opinion misstated the details of the technique and spoke of "putting a VFR altitude in the altitude box" instead of "VFR", which as you said changes the semantics of the flight plan. Whether the GC could be convinced that the technique, done as you described, is okay for a non-IFR-legal pilot is an open question.

I posted a link to the letter a while back but can't find it at the moment; a search on "Goodish letter" might turn it up.
Click to expand...

I found it.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1107737&postcount=32
 
If someone knows of your trip say a cross country and is expecting you, is there any advantage to filing a VFR flight plan? Seems like FF is so much better
 
Stryker1112 said:
If someone knows of your trip say a cross country and is expecting you, is there any advantage to filing a VFR flight plan? Seems like FF is so much better
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Why are they mutually exclusive?
 
Timmer said:
Why are they mutually exclusive?
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Maybe that's my question. What benefit over FF does it give you? Why should I ever file one when I fly any reasonable length of flight? And sure I could do both but why?
 
Supposedly LockMart now has a way to open and close VFR flight plans using text messages. They also now offer a way to integrate spidertracks with your VFR flight plan. I haven't tried either, but if it works it would certainly make VFR flight plans a lot less of a hassle and a lot more useful.
 
Stryker1112 said:
If someone knows of your trip say a cross country and is expecting you, is there any advantage to filing a VFR flight plan? Seems like FF is so much better
Click to expand...

A couple of reasons why a VFR flight plan is better than aunt hilda knowing that you arrive at 8:

- if you are delayed, e.g. because you have to circumnavigate some storms, you can call up FSS airborne and update them with your progress. No need to worry aunt hilda.
- if you are indeed overdue, FSS has numbers for airport managers along your route and start calling to see whether you landed there.
- if you are overdue, FSS has the direct line to the air force rescue coordination center and can get an alert notice issued for people to start looking for you. Aunt hilda can call the local police who will start calling around trying to figure out how to get hold of someone who can start looking for you.
- if you fly in remote areas and you are not at 12-15k AGL, ATC will often tell you 'radar contact lost, squawk VFR, you should be able to be picked up by Salt Lake Center in about 50 miles, try them at 123.45' and just when you are over the most desolate terrain you are on your own without anyone expecting you to check in on the other side.



I think the way VFR flight plans are being handled is backwards, particularly the lack of integration with flight following and the ATC system. There are certainly better ways of handling this, AFSSs effort to integrate with on-board trackers and the rumored ability to activate and close flight plans via text message sound like they are heading the right direction. If I fly up and down the east coast VFR, I just get flight following. You are allways in radar contact and most places are so densely settled that you will most likely land in someones yard in case something goes wrong. Towards that hilly part in the middle, filing VFR flight plans has value.
 
weilke said:
I think the way VFR flight plans are being handled is backwards, particularly the lack of integration with flight following and the ATC system. There are certainly better ways of handling this, AFSSs effort to integrate with on-board trackers and the rumored ability to activate and close flight plans via text message sound like they are heading the right direction. If I fly up and down the east coast VFR, I just get flight following. You are allways in radar contact and most places are so densely settled that you will most likely land in someones yard in case something goes wrong. Towards that hilly part in the middle, filing VFR flight plans has value.
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This is the key. VFR filing is useful only if you crash. It needs to be useful all the time and be integrated into FF
 
Stryker1112 said:
This is the key. VFR filing is useful only if you crash. It needs to be useful all the time and be integrated into FF
Click to expand...

Yup, if you file a VFR flight plan and call for flight following, it should open the VFR fligth plan. If you get out of radar range, it should kick the VFR flight plan with the updated position back to FSS for them to follow up whether you pop back up on FF or call/text to close. With FSS spun off to LockMart and them existing in a parallel universe, I dont see that happening.

Btw. there is a way to create a 'strip' to print for a VFR flight. You file with DUATS, select 'IFR' but then enter a VFR altitude. All that does is create an automatic way for ATC to pick up the flight plan information to attach to your tag without having to ask for destination, route etc. It doesn't create any mechanism to have SAR come looking for you if you dont arrive. The thing with FF is that if you stop talking to ATC or they lose your transponder, they may or may not try to locate you. I believe they are supposed to, but without an IFR flight plan on file, they may just assume you switched to 1200 and went on your merry way.
 
'Rarely file... only for special, long-distance flying adventures. And few of those. Gotta file for border crossings. I'll monitor ATC. I fly with a SPOT and, having done it for years, knows that it works. On any significant flight, I email several friends and family with an itinerary and a link to my SPOT track. Most of our friends/family know they can click on the link any weekend, to see if we are flying and where.
 
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