Using the word "traffic" at the end of approach and landing call outs

Lindberg said:
I thought using tail numbers was an FCC requirement.
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Negative. N numbers are but one way. From 47 CFR 87.107

(a)Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:
(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.

(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.

(4) An aircraft identification approved by the FAA for use by aircraft stations participating in an organized flying activity of short duration.

(b)Land and fixed stations. Identify by means of radio station call sign, its location, its assigned FAA identifier, the name of the city area or airport which it serves, or any additional identification required. An aeronautical enroute station which is part of a multistation network may also be identified by the location of its control point.
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What makes this further irrelevant, is there is no requirement that a station actually identify itself on each transmission like there is in other services.
 
flyingron said:
Negative. N numbers are but one way. From 47 CFR 87.107

(a)Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:
(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.

(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.

(4) An aircraft identification approved by the FAA for use by aircraft stations participating in an organized flying activity of short duration.

(b)Land and fixed stations. Identify by means of radio station call sign, its location, its assigned FAA identifier, the name of the city area or airport which it serves, or any additional identification required. An aeronautical enroute station which is part of a multistation network may also be identified by the location of its control point.
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What makes this further irrelevant, is there is no requirement that a station actually identify itself on each transmission like there is in other services.
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Looks like affirmative, unless you have an assigned call sign or flight number. No option there for type and color.
 
Now let's divert to the discussion (argument) of calling out runway numbers.

I'm strongly of the opinion that approaching runway 2/20 (to use the most problematic example) that the callout should be "zero-two" and "two-zero"; not "two" and "two-zero". AIM has no clear guidance here, that I can find.
 
@wrbix - I'm with you. Always two characters for the runway numbers, even the (let me think...) niner that need a zero first.

And don't go pullin that Ten crap on me... that's one zero.
 
No. I'll start calling it Zero Two when the FAA calls it 02 in the A/FD, runway markings, and ATC phraseology. Until then it's Runway Two.
 
Ah ha! AFD no longer exists. Got another rationale? ;)
 

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A big "2" on the runway adds clarity that "02" would distract from. Much like calling out "zero - two" adds clarity and distinction from a stepped on truncated "two-zero".

Maybe I just think too much. So my wife says, and I'm smart enough not to answer in the reverse. :eek:
 
I have been known to throw that last "traffic" in there from time to time. I can't fathom why anyone would give a crap really. I find that not saying the airport name at all at the end, or not saying it clearly is a bigger problem.

As for calling out your plane type and tail number, I don't care what color you are, although I wouldn't mind a bit if you said it. Mainly, I want to know your type, your position, and your intention at an uncontrolled field. The type has little to do with me helping to spot you. It has more to do with me being able to judge your speed, for spacing.

If someone calls in when I'm on downwind "experimental XYZ, 5 north, straight in for Rwy 18, I don't know if it's a Zenith or a Lancair. I'm likely going to behave differently depending on which one it is.

I've never actually heard anyone say their airplane color outside of Oshkosh.
 
OK. I confess. I NEVER use the word traffic.
If the field has no tower, there is only 1 frequency so "traffic" is redundant.
If there is a tower, then I use "Money hole Tower, this is............."
 
Timbeck2 said:
We have one guy who does radio maintenance who always calls us thusly:

D-M ground, (inflection up) D-M ground (inflection down) this is radio maintenance with a V-H-F radio check, how copy, over.

I always answer: Radio Maintenance Radio Maintenance this D-M ground, D-M ground, you're loud and clear, loud and clear.

He hasn't gotten the hint in years. I hate that guy.
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5x5
 
Shepherd said:
OK. I confess. I NEVER use the word traffic.
If the field has no tower, there is only 1 frequency so "traffic" is redundant.
If there is a tower, then I use "Money hole Tower, this is............."
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There are usually at least 2-3 other airports with the same frequency within radio range around here. Got to specify.
 
nauga said:
No requirement to leave it out, either.

Nauga,
spotted
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Truth. And I often include it: "Yellow Cub xxxPR turning left downwind 17...." I could just say "Piper," but that might be misleading. I don't think it's that hard to figure out what would be useful or not in a given situation. But the official station id is the type and N number.
 
wrbix said:
Now let's divert to the discussion (argument) of calling out runway numbers.

I'm strongly of the opinion that approaching runway 2/20 (to use the most problematic example) that the callout should be "zero-two" and "two-zero"; not "two" and "two-zero". AIM has no clear guidance here, that I can find.
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I just use a falsetto voice..... "out of the way boys, I'm going to land now...."

Seriously, there was a girl in Alaska that would do something similar, if she used the radio at all. Otherwise she would just show up and land no matter if there were planes in the pattern or not.

She ended the problem when she dumped a plane into the ocean.
 
Advisory Circular 9-42F, "Traffic advisory practices at airports without control towers."

Bob
 
OkieFlyer said:
I've never actually heard anyone say their airplane color outside of Oshkosh.
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Palmpilot said:
I hear some pilots doing it here in California
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I'm in SoCal and my CFI drilled me to use color instead of N. He explained 'cause nobody can read your N up in the air it's better to use color. But reading the posts here I realize that in a busy area I won't be the only white Skyhawk (although no one else in the pattern has a female voice with such cute accent than me (so I was told).
Once a guy over Big Bear heard us using color, he asked why, CFI responded, guy said 'great, from now on I will use color only'...:D
 
Timbeck2 said:
We have one guy who does radio maintenance who always calls us thusly:

D-M ground, (inflection up) D-M ground (inflection down) this is radio maintenance with a V-H-F radio check, how copy, over.

I always answer: Radio Maintenance Radio Maintenance this D-M ground, D-M ground, you're loud and clear, loud and clear.

He hasn't gotten the hint in years. I hate that guy.
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Of course not, he thinks - "Hey it's someone who uses the radio like me. And he's official, so I must be doing it right!"
 
Shepherd said:
I do.
"Cow Patty, Yellow Cub 5 miles out, 1,500ft, for runway 29. Cow Patty"
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Standard phraseology exists for a reason. You might confuse the UNICOM operator, for example.
 
"Clemson traffic, Cessna (it is a 152, not a skyhawk/skylane etc) 407, right downwind runway 25, Clemson" is my typical call. No unnecessary info that is not required by the FAR/AIM.

One issue I have noticed though is that some uncontrolled airports use different terms for their location. My home base for example. Oconee Regional Airport in the chart supplement, but 95% of the time you will hear Clemson traffic, not Oconee or Oconee Regional traffic. Most of the time when I see an out of town jet come in, they use the name in the chart supplement, while locals use Clemson since we are right next to the university. I always wondered how much confusion this causes for pilots who don't frequent the airport, and has made me think about it when traveling to new places.
 
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dmspilot said:
Standard phraseology exists for a reason. You might confuse the UNICOM operator, for example.
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What UNICOM operator? At every non-towered airport I've been into in the last 50 years there has only been 1 radio and 1 frequency, and 99% of the time there is no one there to operate it.
Also, Ronbonjovi makes an excellent point. Many airports have "official" names, but everyone uses the "local" name. For example, I fly out of Walter J. Koladza Airport. I have NEVER heard anyone utter that name. Honestly, I don't even know how to pronounce it. It's always "Great Barrington" or "GBR".
Yes, every pilot should absolutely know all the official standard phraseology. Yes, every pilot should endeavor to speak clearly and succinctly, with a minimum of obfuscation.
That being said: Standard phraseology only exists in the minds of the FAA, and a few really anal tower jockeys.
Fly into the Class "B" airspace around NYC. "Yo, 69 Foxtrot Uniform wadda ya doin? Ya putz!" was a recent gem.
I'm not sure the guy in Shreveport can speak English at all.
 
Ronbonjovi said:
One issue I have noticed though is that some uncontrolled airports use different terms for their location. My home base for example. Oconee Regional Airport in the chart supplement, but 95% of the time you will hear Clemson traffic, not Oconee or Oconee Regional traffic. Most of the time when I see an out of town jet come in, they use the name in the chart supplement, while locals use Clemson since we are right next to the university. I always wondered how much confusion this causes for pilots who don't frequent the airport, and has made me think about it when traveling to new places.
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"CLEMSON" appears right above "OCONEE CO RGN" in the Chart Supplement, and in larger type. Both are in boldface.
 

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Palmpilot said:
"CLEMSON" appears right above "OCONEE CO RGN" in the Chart Supplement, and in larger type. Both are in boldface.
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That "CLEMSON" indicates that Clemson is the nearest city. If there are multiple airports in or near Clemson, they will all be under the same heading. Alternate airport names should be listed next to the official name.
 
Who you are talking to
Who you are
What you are doing
Where you are doing it
 
Lindberg said:
That "CLEMSON" indicates that Clemson is the nearest city. If there are multiple airports in or near Clemson, they will all be under the same heading.
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True, but my point is that anyone who has read the entry should not be confused when they hear other pilots calling it either "Clemson" or "Oconee..."

Alternate airport names should be listed next to the official name.
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I don't disagree.
 
Shepherd said:
Yes, every pilot should endeavor to speak clearly and succinctly, with a minimum of obfuscation.
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This is the number one most important thing to me, and probably the biggest problem with radio communication today. So many people just don't speak up and enunciate! Frankly, I don't care if your phraseology fits a standard at an uncontrolled field as long as you clearly enunciate the pertinent information in a reasonable amount of time. Adding "traffic", which takes a second or less to say doesn't make my list of things to worry about.
 
flyingron said:
Of course, if were in Australia (or many of the British Commonwealth) the call would begin "All stations and Cloverdale traffic...."
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“All stations, all stations, this is Crystal Palace with authenticated message from Brass Hat. All stations acknowledge ready for authentication in order.”
 
Instead of "traffic" would it be acceptable to use "homies", or "peeps"?
 
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