Upgrade options for an IFR clock?

mandm

mandm

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Looking to replace the quartz clock but wondering what options there are to meet the IFR clock requirement.
 
X3 Skier said:
Your Phone?
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It's not explicitly stated in 91.205 but it has been interpreted such that the clock is supposed to be 'installed equipment' which implies it meets the TC or STC/field mod approval.

If you've got an IFR GPS you've almost certainly got an 'approved clock' in it somewhere.

Nauga,
who can neither confirm nor deny...
 
nauga said:
It's not explicitly stated in 91.205 but it has been interpreted such that the clock is supposed to be 'installed equipment' which implies it meets the TC or STC/field mod approval.

If you've got an IFR GPS you've almost certainly got an 'approved clock' in it somewhere.

Nauga,
who can neither confirm nor deny...
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on Davtron website
upload_2022-8-18_15-16-37.png
 
The cheapest thing that works if you aren’t willing to settle for the built-in clocks in the avionics. You have to have a clock but no reg says that’s the one you have to use. Wayyyy better, non-installed options for actual IFR use IMO.
 
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You can use the time function on your GPS or transponder display. I usually have the FAA interpretation letter handy and could post it for you, but not at the moment; maybe search the forum and my user name.

I marked my clock INOP, removed the fuse, and printed a copy of the letter in my glovebox for my IR checkride (DPE never asked).
 
tsts4 said:
The cheapest thing that works if you aren’t willing to settle for the built-in clocks in the avionics.
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That would be my third favorite. If it's redundant but you gotta have it then spend the least amount of money. Otherwise, get it to do something not redundant like the AV20S or the MidContinent USB chargers. Everything in between seems a waste to me.
 
This again?

- IFR GPS (GNS430/530, GTN650/750, etc.) aren't suitable replacements for IFR clock. (G1000/similar "suite" may be suitable)
- Transponder clock/timer is not suitable.
- Your phone is not suitable.

Long thread I participated in sometime in the last couple of years, and provided all the references, not hard to find here at POA.
 
Ryan F. said:
This again?

- IFR GPS (GNS430/530, GTN650/750, etc.) aren't suitable replacements for IFR clock. (G1000/similar "suite" may be suitable)
- Transponder clock/timer is not suitable.
- Your phone is not suitable.

Long thread I participated in sometime in the last couple of years, and provided all the references, not hard to find here at POA.
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Your comment on GPS and transponder is incorrect. Here is the reference:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...rps/2016/Nkugba_2016_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

My IFD-540 has a permanent clock display. Maybe other GPS units do not.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Your comment on GPS and transponder is incorrect. Here is the reference:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...rps/2016/Nkugba_2016_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

My IFD-540 has a permanent clock display. Maybe other GPS units do not.
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It is not incorrect. You're to be forgiven for your confusion on this, and you're in very good company, but if you follow the "IFR Clock rabbit hole" to its conclusion you will realize you've misunderstood the Nkugba interpretation, which doesn't contain the support for what you've inferred.

It's a long thread, and it starts with a different question, but here it is:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/bad-tach-should-i-go-gi-275-eis.128365/

You could start on or near post #30 if you'd like to save a little time.

I am not intimately familiar with your IFR GPS. If the installed appliance's time field (top of display) is configurable and removable, it is not suitable for use as an IFR clock. If it is indeed permanent and not user configurable, it may be suitable. Usually, it will be full panel suites (G1000/etc.) which contain permanent clock displays. The GNS430/540, GTN650/750, etc. do not have them. You may own an exception to the rule, but "most" of the Navigators out there do not meet this requirement. Possibly, yours doesn't either, but I won't give an opinion on equipment I'm not familiar with.

On the other hand, you're definitely in err regarding transponder displays. There are no transponders I'm aware of which meet the requirement for a permanent clock display. That's a no go.

You can follow the thread I linked to for the rest of it. I don't have the time to go through all of that again, but the ability to navigate the guidance to come to the correct conclusion on the subject of "legal IFR clocks" has piqued my interest as a possible FAASTeam webinar. It is highly technical and nuanced, but I think there are takeaways for the end user vis-a-vis how to parse seemingly conflicting guidance.

Best of luck,
 
@Ryan F. thanks for taking time, I will look at the link you provided.

The IFD-540 time-field is configurable. You can’t inadvertently delete it, but you can remove it as a field if you wanted by going into settings mode.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
@Ryan F. thanks for taking time, I will look at the link you provided.

The IFD-540 time-field is configurable. You can’t inadvertently delete it, but you can remove it as a field if you wanted by going into settings mode.
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That's what I expected - and that is not suitable for the purposes of meeting the 91.205 clock requirement.

Sorry to send you down the IFR clock wormhole.
 
mandm said:
Looking to replace the quartz clock but wondering what options there are to meet the IFR clock requirement.
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When I bought my 172 the fuse was removed for the clock and hobbs meter so the battery would last longer since it was not flown much.

I put the fuse back in and use the hobbs and the quartz clock. At first it didn't work too well, the clock. Sometimes getting behind. I would check it every flight against my I pad. I fly often so no worries about the battery going dead. Couple years ago I was thinking about replacing it with one just like it. But now it is running like a top...I mean a clock! lol Hardly ever misses a beat and must of freed up inside after about 2 years of use? Not complaining, glad I didn't replace it.
IMG_1306.JPG
 
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mandm said:
Looking to replace the quartz clock but wondering what options there are to meet the IFR clock requirement.
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Why are you looking to replace it? If it doesn't work, then yes, a lot of the advice in this thread is valid.

But if does work and you just want something better, then spending the excessive amount of money that most vendors want is, IMO, a big waste. Comply with the regulation with the existing clock, then use whatever means you want (iPad, watch, kitchen timer) when you actually need to time something (which is extremely rare in my experience).
 
RussR said:
Why are you looking to replace it? If it doesn't work, then yes, a lot of the advice in this thread is valid.

But if does work and you just want something better, then spending the excessive amount of money that most vendors want is, IMO, a big waste. Comply with the regulation with the existing clock, then use whatever means you want (iPad, watch, kitchen timer) when you actually need to time something (which is extremely rare in my experience).
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^^^^^THIS^^^^^
 
I replaced my flakey clock with a uAvionix AV20S about a month ago. So far I like it a lot! Its a bit of a novelty, but still pretty useful. The AOA function is pretty dang accurate and the timers / clocks are nice too.
 
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