This one is $229,500
https://vanbortel.com/aircraft-for-sale/aircraft-inventory/905/1998-cessna-182s-skylane
This one is $289,500
https://vanbortel.com/aircraft-for-sale/aircraft-inventory/1045/2002-cessna-182t-skylane
What do yall think would happen if I go for a 182 or similar for around the $200,000 range and fly it for a year or 2 and put on say... 100hrs - 150hrs a year. How much money will I loose if I'd trade it back into them for a 6 seat or something higher performance/more complex provided the economy stays in good shape?
Well, a good gauge for that is what Vref (aircraft valuation tool) says. For a normally-aspirated 182 around that time frame, this is what they say:
1998: Retail $155,000, 2870 hours assumed, $5.54/hr airframe, $22/hr engine
2000: Retail $170,000, 2590 hours assumed, $6.73/hr airframe, $22/hr engine
2002: Retail $180,000, 2310 hours assumed, $7.99/hr airframe, $22/hr engine
As you can see, newer airplanes are assumed to cost more, every hour on the airframe has a bigger hit to the value, but the engine value is constant.
So, I would expect that if you buy a 2002 182 now, and sell it 2 years and 300 hours from now, you'll take a depreciation hit of about $10,000 (retail) + $6600 (engine time) + up to $2400 (airframe time) for a total of $19,000.
Or, the economy could keep humming and the airplane market could keep going up and you could sell it for what you bought it for or more.
Or, the economy could tank and you could end up losing $50K if you're in a must-sell situation. Who knows.
I think my biggest questions now would be if I head most everyones advice and go for a 182 to train in and use for 1 or 2 years or so max and then I want to trade it for like a 350/400 or a twin or maybe even a Lancair or something, what will that look like financially for me. I imagine if I got something with around 700-800hrs smoh and I put 300 hrs on it in 2 years it wouldnt be so bad on a 70's 182 but what if I get one that is in the $200,000 range, will it retain its value the same or is it a depreciating money pit and I'll loose big time in 2 years?
Really, it could go either way, as I outlined above. Personally, I'd aim for something that's more in the 500-hour SMOH range, since in reality the value at sale is somewhat non-linear both early and late in the engine's life. When I was trying to sell a plane with 1200-1400 hours on a 2000-TBO engine, people were saying the engine "would have to be done right away"! (I picked up a partner and kept the plane, and we're at 1999 hours now, with no trouble at all from the engine...)
Also I researched the 182's more last night and read up on the 182T - the turbo version. Although engine rebuild cost look to be almost that of a N/A twin its looking like if you fly 14,000 or so that you could cruise around the 145-155 mark, maybe even faster, and if you opt to use oxygen then its quite abit faster yet..
But remember that you'll spend longer climbing (at a slower speed) to get up to that altitude. Really, turbos don't give you any significant speed advantage until you are flying 300+ mile legs on a regular basis. Below about 10,000 feet, a normally aspirated plane will actually be faster, and you won't gain a significant speed advantage until you're in the upper teens. So, look at your normal mission and see if you're going to be doing that the majority of the time. I've thought a lot about whether I should switch to a turbo bird, but in reality, it'd only help me about a half dozen times a year, while the rest of the time I'd be paying for more fuel and more maintenance to go slower. Plus, a lot of those times I'd like a turbo, I have my wife and son along and while my wife is fine with breathing oxygen sometimes, I can't exactly teach my 20-month-old how to breathe through a cannula if I even had one that'd fit him. With children, you pretty much need to stay in the altitudes where the normally-aspirated plane is faster anyway.
When training, you haven't yet developed a lot of finesse when it comes to handling your engine, and you'll be doing a lot of go-arounds, some of them in "panic mode", after a botched approach or landing attempt. Put those together, and you have a recipe for big maintenance costs. Plus, unless they changed the turbo system in the newer 182s (
@flyersfan31 had one, maybe he can elaborate), you can't push the throttle to the stops without overboosting, which makes it even more likely that some of the early panic-y go-arounds you'll have during your first couple hundred hours will result in very expensive trips to the shop, if not a full engine overhaul.
Don't get a turbo for your first plane, in other words.
So trade in value is that 85% per 100hrs a good rule of thumb? Would I be better off getting pre approved at like Dorr or something and then shop the private market for something without the dealer markup?
Working with Van Bortel is very different from most of the rest of the market. They do things like let you return the plane within a certain time frame, and I think they have some guarantees in place as well. But, you do pay handsomely for that - Consider it kind of an insurance policy. (Van Bortel also mainly works with Cessnas.)
Most airplanes are sold with no returns possible and no guarantees whatsoever. A pre-buy inspection is common, but once you sign on the line, it's yours, no matter what expensive thing may pop up. But, it'll probably save you a lot of money, you just are taking on the risk that it may cost you just as much or more. It also opens up a much larger market.
The DA40 is an excellent airplane to start in as well. You can get a newer/nicer one for your money compared to a 182. Their safety record is stellar. They're as easy to fly as a Cessna, but way more fun. The view is fantastic with the canopy. They're incredibly efficient as well, going as fast as a 182 on 9-10 gallons per hour instead of 13. They hold their value very well - In fact, my club has had one for about 8 years now, and it's worth just as much now as it was when we bought it.
The biggest drawback in comparison to the 182 will be useful load. Depending on year, 600-650 pounds with full fuel, whereas the 182 should be able to carry about 100 pounds more with full fuel. More details below...
If you have the money for it, they also make a twin version (the DA42 TwinStar) as well as a larger, 7-seat twin (the DA62 Super TwinStar). However, they're going to be expensive, especially the 62 as it didn't come out until just the last couple of years. If you want to move into a 7-seat twin for probably $700K as your next plane, starting with Diamond now might be a great idea... And really, they're nice planes even if you'd rather go in a different direction for your next one.
Decent cruise speed. 130(ish) at about 10-11gph full rich. Leaning helps as always.
That'd be one of the older, non-glass ones (2001-2003). Our club's 2006 (the 2004-2006 birds were pretty much all the same) will do 140 on 9-10 gph, 135 if you get way LOP burning 7.5 gph, or 145 if you really push it and burn 11 gph. The 2007 and later birds got some aerodynamic cleanups and can be 5-10 knots faster.
Can't stick the tanks very well. What looks like a half inch fuel means you are almost full. When you can't see any, you really have no idea how much you have except by the gauges.
The plane comes with a contraption that you can attach to the fuel drain and put on the leading edge of the wing to get the equivalent of sticking the tanks.
40gal/34 useable (2003 model)
There are 40-gal and 50-gal planes. Easy to tell between them - They cut holes for both sets of tanks in the top of the wing, so there will be one that has the filler cap in it and the other one that has a composite plug glued there. If the cap is on the inboard hole and the plug on the outboard, it's got 40-gal tanks. If the cap is outboard and the plug inboard, it's got 50 gallons.
Regarding older 182's. Most (like ours) have a 1500 TBO on the Continental motor. So if you buy at 700smoh (just like we did) and you fly it 300hrs it will still have about 33% of its hours remaining. If you have a good relationship with the mechanic and take care of it, he may let you fly it past 1500.
May? It's not up to the mechanic, it's up to the owner. We took our old 1500-TBO 182 up to 2,451 hours before it needed an overhaul. Part of what allowed that is being flown regularly, which keeps things nice and lubricated and keeps corrosion from forming.
Now adding that G1000 to a older Cessna 182 I think is some crazy amount (maybe $50K, maybe more, ???).
You actually can't add the G1000 to an older plane. It either comes from the factory, or it doesn't. 2003 and earlier will be "steam gauges", 2004-2006 will be the initial non-WAAS G1000 with an external autopilot (which is getting somewhat orphaned by some manufacturers), 2007+ will be the WAAS G1000 with integrated GFC 700 autopilot. The GFC 700-equipped birds tend to sell for about a $60K premium over the older G1000 birds.
