United CEO says it's passenger's fault regarding seat pitch

He is correct. The unwashed masses want cheap tix, this is how you get cheap tix. Want better seats? Pay more money or find another way to travel. Nobody is putting a gun to people heads and telling them they have to get the cheapest thing they can find.
 
People like to stir up drama over anything they possibly can. There's a reason why one is called the 'economy' or main cabin and the other is 'business/first class.'

I just flew on a new Delta 737-900 this past Wednesday, riding in the poor man's cabin and I was thoroughly impressed. Very comfortable seats with ample leg room and LCD displays in the seat backs that provided free satellite TV.

Pay more or shut up and quit the complaining.
 
First, great companies don't make a crappy product just because they can't figure out a better way to compete in the market. Good companies don't blame their customers for their own lousy product. United needs to decide what customers they want to focus on and make the experience exceptional for those customers; attempting to compete with Emirates and Spirit on the same airplane does not serve that goal well.


JKG
 
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I often wonder what the breakpoint is. How much extra do they make by the extra seats they can squeeze in.
Also, not that much bit it would make the plane slightly lighter (passengers and their baggage, times say 10-12) etc.

Because while I can't or won't pay the huge extra amount for business class, I definitely would choose a ticket that was somewhat (100,150 bucks) more expensive if I knew it meant legroom and comfort. I can't believe I'm the only one.

On flights longer than a few hours, I really do wonder what the difference in price would be to make up for their lost seats if they took a row or even two out. That price, spread among x amount of passengers, seems like it ought to be doable. And an honest ad campaign ("for x dollars more, you will have y amount more room over our competitors when you fly, so when you get to your destination, you'll feel a lot better!") ought to win them a lot more folks.

The majority of folk may only choose the cheapest (until they get tired of being conned, finding out there are lots of add on costs, and the price isn't the real price) but I suspect there is still a large enough market that would pay a little more for comfort. But currently we can't "vote with our wallet" because it isn't an option.

Oh wait, there is one carrier in the US that offers more room isn't their?
 
Ryanb said:
People like to stir up drama over anything they possibly can. There's a reason why one is called the 'economy' or main cabin and the other is 'business/first class.'

I just flew on a new Delta 737-900 this past Wednesday, riding in the poor man's cabin and I was thoroughly impressed. Very comfortable seats with ample leg room and LCD displays in the seat backs that provided free satellite TV.

Pay more or shut up and quit the complaining.
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As I posted, I would definitely pay more. But not their business class prices.
Sounds great, what you experienced, I'm curious though, when you bought your ticket did they have any mention online about the extra room? Did you know at point of purchase that it would have more room on economy or was it a pleasant surprise?

I would hope they would make sure folks could easily see that though the price was maybe higher than competitors, they offer seating comfort.
 
"Seat pitch has come down because that's what customers voted with their wallets that they wanted," said Kirby. "I know everyone would tell you, 'I would like more seat pitch.' But the history in the airline industry is every time airlines put more seat pitch on, customers choose the lowest price."
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This is BS.

The airlines specify price but not pitch, for the seats they offer.

Customers choose based on the information offered them. If the airlines clearly told you the pitch along with the price, some customers, especially taller ones, would choose the airline that had enough legroom.
 
United is whining, they chose to be a low budget carrier, they get low budget passengers. But still, some passengers are whining too. Those that want more leg room can pay the $25 extra for the economy plus or more for for business/first class, and those that want to save money can sit in the cheap seats. It's a choice, the market offers options.

Personally, I choose the lowest price that is not Spirit, Allegent, or United. I choose for reliable transportation, not luxury. The market says most people do.
 
I got into a price war once running my first business. Customer visits were up, but sales were flat. Went back to being 25% more expensive but still with the best customer experience. Lost customers, made tons of money. I don't know the vagaries of the business but it's possible the airline industry could solve a lot of problems if they raised prices substantially. Lower pax loads means either tons less fuel or tons more cargo go on every flight. I'd love to see an industry-wide shift to raise coach prices by $100-150/seat.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I often wonder what the breakpoint is. How much extra do they make by the extra seats they can squeeze in.
Also, not that much bit it would make the plane slightly lighter (passengers and their baggage, times say 10-12) etc.

Because while I can't or won't pay the huge extra amount for business class, I definitely would choose a ticket that was somewhat (100,150 bucks) more expensive if I knew it meant legroom and comfort. I can't believe I'm the only one.

On flights longer than a few hours, I really do wonder what the difference in price would be to make up for their lost seats if they took a row or even two out. That price, spread among x amount of passengers, seems like it ought to be doable. And an honest ad campaign ("for x dollars more, you will have y amount more room over our competitors when you fly, so when you get to your destination, you'll feel a lot better!") ought to win them a lot more folks.

The majority of folk may only choose the cheapest (until they get tired of being conned, finding out there are lots of add on costs, and the price isn't the real price) but I suspect there is still a large enough market that would pay a little more for comfort. But currently we can't "vote with our wallet" because it isn't an option.

Oh wait, there is one carrier in the US that offers more room isn't their?
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It is not the break point, it s getting every last cent out of every flight to justify excessive CEO pay.
 
gasfiltered said:
I got into a price war once running my first business. Customer visits were up, but sales were flat. Went back to being 25% more expensive but still with the best customer experience. Lost customers, made tons of money. I don't know the vagaries of the business but it's possible the airline industry could solve a lot of problems if they raised prices substantially. Lower pax loads means either tons less fuel or tons more cargo go on every flight. I'd love to see an industry-wide shift to raise coach prices by $100-150/seat.
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I miss the days when folks actually dressed nicely for flights. These days I am in the minority as I still show for trips dressed up for coach or first class. Higher rates may bring the quality of pax back at least.
 
I fly JetBlue when i can, and am happy to pay a bit more. Hopefully they stick to their model as it works for me. Ill never get on a Spirit or similar. All this just makes me more want to upgrade to a Bo so i can skip this commercial nonsense. 95% of my flying is on the east coast. I wouldn't miss airliners one bit.
 
Clip4 said:
It is not the break point, it s getting every last cent out of every flight to justify excessive CEO pay.
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By "breakpoint" I meant, they don't lose a dime. How much extra would it cost per passenger if the whole economy class had a little more room, so that it would make up for the lost revenue (or even give them slightly mor profit) of the seats taken out.
 
Flymeariver said:
I miss the days when folks actually dressed nicely for flights. These days I am in the minority as I still show for trips dressed up for coach or first class. Higher rates may bring the quality of pax back at least.
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If there's one thing I've learned on the ramps of airports over the years, it's that you cannot assume a person's status by their dress. I don't mind if people wear whatever they want, but civility is a requirement. Civility is the first to go when an already indigent life is stressed further by being treated like cattle. I won't assume that poorer people are genuinely uncivil or that never having been exposed to "proper" manners means they lack basic decency; just that they are a lot closer to the breaking point than perhaps you or I.
 
Flymeariver said:
I miss the days when folks actually dressed nicely for flights. These days I am in the minority as I still show for trips dressed up for coach or first class. Higher rates may bring the quality of pax back at least.
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I went to a good friends funeral service. I was one of two wearing a suit. There were even some family members dressed as if they were going to a mall. One heavyset guy was wearing a t shirt, shorts,socks and sandals. He was a member of the family. This was in the Netherlands. I don't know if it just isn't the custom there or what, but I was pretty taken aback.

Folks don't dress up for much anymore. I notice in the US, all over the place grown up (well grown up) men walking around in oversized tennis shoes, (heh...gave away my age..."tennis shoes" smirk...) shirts and oversized t shirts, resemble big kids to me.

I think we can give up on hoping folk decide to dress up to fly. And honestly, with economy seating, the hassles, the warmth if the plane sits on the Tarmac delayed....I wouldn't do it either. I dress comfortable (not sweats, but looser pants, light shirt, etc.) for the hassle that is commercial flight these days.
 
gasfiltered said:
If there's one thing I've learned on the ramps of airports over the years, it's that you cannot assume a person's status by their dress. I don't mind if people wear whatever they want, but civility is a requirement. Civility is the first to go when an already indigent life is stressed further by being treated like cattle. I won't assume that poorer people are genuinely uncivil or that never having been exposed to "proper" manners means they lack basic decency; just that they are a lot closer to the breaking point than perhaps you or I.
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The worst outbursts I myself have witnessed, seem to come from people who seem to have money but for whatever reason (decided to save money, or business was sold out) expect first class treatment in coach.
 
LongRoadBob said:
As I posted, I would definitely pay more. But not their business class prices.
Sounds great, what you experienced, I'm curious though, when you bought your ticket did they have any mention online about the extra room? Did you know at point of purchase that it would have more room on economy or was it a pleasant surprise?

I would hope they would make sure folks could easily see that though the price was maybe higher than competitors, they offer seating comfort.
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It was just a surprise! This was one of the new 739's that had the mood lighting as well. I could be wrong, but I feel like the new aircraft entering service with the airlines are more of this way (improved economy cabin). I typically fly SWA when I go airline, but I was able to snag a good price on Delta and as I said prior, I was thoroughly impressed with them.
 
Cheap tickets = ghetto pax

I don't mind paying a little more for a good experience.

They should just say, you bought a cheap ticket, you got what you paid for.

I hear homeless shelters have cheap dinners too, don't whine when it's not a fine French bistro atmosphere or quality.
 
The biggest jerk I ever saw on an airplane was a Bozo in first class who refused to get off his cell phone after boarding until Security took him and his phone off the plane. BTW, he was dressed nice (until he got his jail issued gear I hope)

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
The biggest jerk I ever saw on an airplane was a Bozo in first class who refused to get off his cell phone after boarding until Security took him and his phone off the plane. BTW, he was dressed nice (until he got his jail issued gear I hope)

Cheers
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They're usually the guys that say, "Do you know who I am?????!!!!!"
 
Ryanb said:
People like to stir up drama over anything they possibly can. There's a reason why one is called the 'economy' or main cabin and the other is 'business/first class.'

I just flew on a new Delta 737-900 this past Wednesday, riding in the poor man's cabin and I was thoroughly impressed. Very comfortable seats with ample leg room and LCD displays in the seat backs that provided free satellite TV.

Pay more or shut up and quit the complaining.
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How tall are you and what's your BMI? I'll be that anyone over 5'9" and a 24 BMI is going to fell like a sardine.
 
paflyer said:
How tall are you and what's your BMI? I'll be that anyone over 5'9" and a 24 BMI is going to fell like a sardine.
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6' 0" online BMI calculator says a 23.1. For an economy class seat, these were significantly better than any others that I've been in and I think *most* people would agree. I could stretch my legs out completely FWIW.
 
Ryanb said:
It was just a surprise! This was one of the new 739's that had the mood lighting as well. I could be wrong, but I feel like the new aircraft entering service with the airlines are more of this way (improved economy cabin). I typically fly SWA when I go airline, but I was able to snag a good price on Delta and as I said prior, I was thoroughly impressed with them.
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I think that is so strange. It seems odd they wouldn't point it out on the ticket. If it was down to a choice of the same price as a different company, but they pointed out the comfort, who wouldn't go for that. It is weird they don't push that. Maybe they either don't always know which exact airplane will do the route at that time, or are afraid if they have to substitute at the last minute with an old style, they will get tons of complaints and people wanting money back?
 
LongRoadBob said:
I think that is so strange. It seems odd they wouldn't point it out on the ticket. If it was down to a choice of the same price as a different company, but they pointed out the comfort, who wouldn't go for that. It is weird they don't push that. Maybe they either don't always know which exact airplane will do the route at that time, or are afraid if they have to substitute at the last minute with an old style, they will get tons of complaints and people wanting money back?
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I dunno, but I'm not saying these were first-class seats fitted into economy, but they were significantly better than any of the other Econ seats I've sat in over the years. Not to mention the legroom and free satellite TV as well. As I said in a prior post, I believe that the new aircraft entering airline service have upgrades such as these, so we'll likely see it more and more. I can't imagine how much better first class could have been IMO.
 
The author of the article showed his ignorance when he equated Spirit and Southwest, two airlines which are similar only in the fact that each carries passengers. Southwest is businesslike and does not jack you up on fees (not the cheapest, either, but a fair and rational price, with decent policies in things like luggage and changes. They also have significantly better seat pitch than most coach products.

Spirit... well, their website is purposely made to look like it was written in crayon. Waiting for, "tie your seat ropes."

Back when AA had the "More Room Throughout Coach" policy, I absolutely paid more to fly them, and it was a valuable point of difference for me. Apparently, I was in the minority on that, though.
 
The airline market is very efficient. The reality is that most consumers will not go past the fist page of an internet search for an airline ticket. So when your fare pushes you past the first page, you've lost customers. The industry has tried several things to improve passenger comfort, all of which have been busts. Time will tell if economy plus will stay around.
 
My wife and I are pretty small people. I'm the bigger at 5'7" / 180 so I don't have to airline shop to find one that fits. When we fly commercial it to a vacation spot only so I honestly could care less about how luxurious my 2-4 hours of flying is. Once we hit the beach in the carribean it will all be forgotten.

I think this has a lot to do with how infrequent we fly commercial. If we were regulars we might be more inclined to take note of good vs crappy conditions? It's usually southwest or delta so maybe I've just never had a really bad commercial experience.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
The airline market is very efficient. The reality is that most consumers will not go past the fist page of an internet search for an airline ticket. So when your fare pushes you past the first page, you've lost customers. The industry has tried several things to improve passenger comfort, all of which have been busts. Time will tell if economy plus will stay around.
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Easy to say. Explain then Southwest Airlines. what I seem to see is a virtual monopoly. There certainly is a share of the market that only looks at the price. There are also a part of the market that IF they are made aware, would pay a little more for comfort.
 
arkvet said:
My wife and I are pretty small people. I'm the bigger at 5'7" / 180 so I don't have to airline shop to find one that fits. When we fly commercial it to a vacation spot only so I honestly could care less about how luxurious my 2-4 hours of flying is. Once we hit the beach in the carribean it will all be forgotten.

I think this has a lot to do with how infrequent we fly commercial. If we were regulars we might be more inclined to take note of good vs crappy conditions? It's usually southwest or delta so maybe I've just never had a really bad commercial experience.
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Definitely part of it. I also don't care as much if the flight is a couple of hours long, but when it gets into 4 or more hours, it means a lot to me and I would (if I could, but often I can't because it isn't either offered or it isn't clear) pay a little more for comfort.

I used to travel a lot, long flights too, for business, back in the 90's, and at the time the company would pay for us to get business class because they found out we wee much more productive when we got to our destination. Those times are gone. Most businesses won't pay for it now, and I would like to hear if they even can choose a an airline at all. In my company, you are forced to choose the lowest price.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
The airline market is very efficient. The reality is that most consumers will not go past the fist page of an internet search for an airline ticket. So when your fare pushes you past the first page, you've lost customers. The industry has tried several things to improve passenger comfort, all of which have been busts. Time will tell if economy plus will stay around.
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Yup. People can't claim to be a capitalist *and* knock the airlines. 80% or more of people are gonna buy the cheapest seat and, this is key, do not shop with any other attribute in mind. Hell, half the time they don't even take luggage fees, ticketing fees and the other add-ons into account.

If you are $75 more than the competitor, you will be flying mostly empty planes. The free market is demanding one thing and one thing only: Price.
 
SCCutler said:
Back when AA had the "More Room Throughout Coach" policy, I absolutely paid more to fly them, and it was a valuable point of difference for me. Apparently, I was in the minority on that, though.
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Don't forget that many folks don't have a choice...they're flying for business, and many companies require the lowest possible fare be selected irregardless of other circumstances. When I was employed, they'd schedule me for multiple legs instead of a non-stop if the fare was lower.

For my personal travel, I've found that First Class isn't the huge fare hit people think it is. On one leg of a recent trip, first class was only $30 more...and my checked bag was free, saving me $25. One beer, and I'd broke even.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Flymeariver said:
I miss the days when folks actually dressed nicely for flights. These days I am in the minority as I still show for trips dressed up for coach or first class. Higher rates may bring the quality of pax back at least.
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You're not suggesting that well dressed, "quality" passengers no longer fly just because you personally don't see them, are you? Passengers choose to wear what they want now; making them pay even more per seat will only increase their already overly heightened sense of entitlement, not gentrify the masses.
 
if you want some reasonable comfort - you can pay for it via the seats with extra legroom.

Delta even gives you free drinks.

United is currently the worst at lying to passengers about delays and uncomfortable seats -

Delta is currently best -= AA is in the middle.

Alaska is kinda good in a class all its own because it lacks an extensive network -

Then you have the 'other' airlines - and I rank them such:

JetBlue
Southwest
then tied for last and worst

Alleigant
Frontier
Spirit
Suncountry
and whomever may not have been mentioned.

ALL of the Regionals suck because of seat width, lack of reliable dispatch and no consequence if they are not on time -
 
Acrodustertoo said:
He is correct. The unwashed masses want cheap tix, this is how you get cheap tix. Want better seats? Pay more money or find another way to travel. Nobody is putting a gun to people heads and telling them they have to get the cheapest thing they can find.
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Well, maybe not a gun, but certain bosses and travel departments hold a threat to impact your addiction to food, clothing and shelter if you don't buy the least expensive tickets. Not saying it's right, just saying that business travellers at least are forced into spending downward.
 
comanchepilot said:
if you want some reasonable comfort - you can pay for it via the seats with extra legroom.

Delta even gives you free drinks.

United is currently the worst at lying to passengers about delays and uncomfortable seats -

Delta is currently best -= AA is in the middle.

Alaska is kinda good in a class all its own because it lacks an extensive network -

Then you have the 'other' airlines - and I rank them such:

JetBlue
Southwest
then tied for last and worst

Alleigant
Frontier
Spirit
Suncountry
and whomever may not have been mentioned.

ALL of the Regionals suck because of seat width, lack of reliable dispatch and no consequence if they are not on time -
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Some of our seats are wider than mainline planes. Most of the time, Delta tells us when to delay and cancel a flight so we don't really have a say over it. It makes sense too. They'd rather delay or cancel a 76 seat RJ as opposed a 180 seat 757
 
Ryanb said:
People like to stir up drama over anything they possibly can.
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Very true....and that reality makes Kirby as much of an idiot as Munoz.

These guys really need to learn to shut up and THINK about the statements they make.
 
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