Uncontrolled field protocol

[2Airtime2]

I'm a low time pilot but I feel like I should know the answer.

Saturday was a nice day to fly and there were lots of planes taxiing, taking off, landing, and in the pattern. Everyone is announcing their intentions and everything seemed smooth. I turn final and the jump plane announces he's taxiing onto the runway for takeoff. I continue my decent thinking he's going to expedite his movement, nope. I had to abort my landing by turning to the right (right traffic pattern) and fly 500' below the downwind leg with 2 planes on the downwind. I had immediately announced what I had to do and we all three had each other in sight so it was a non issue. I circled around to the left and re-entered the 45 downwind.

What was supposed to happen to avoid me having to abort my landing? I heard the jump plane announce he was taxiing to the runway but as far as I know he never announced he was taking off til I was on short final. You know, I always look to the right before I taxi onto the runway. No matter who had the right of way, how the he!! do you (as a commercial pilot) pull right out onto the runway and stop?

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Once he took the runway, right or wrong, best would be to go around, maintain runway heading, and offset to one side of the runway, announce position and intent, and rejoin the pattern on the crosswind.

What you did was survived. Nothing wrong with that.

Flying is learning.

 

[RyanB]

Well if you were on final before he taxied onto the runway, than technically you had the right of way and he should’ve held short and waited.

Other than that, it’s just 2-way communications between you and the other pilots to coordinate what you’re going to do (although it’s not required).

 

[mscard88]

No matter who had the right of way, how the he!! do you (as a commercial pilot) pull right out onto the runway and stop?

That's why it's called 'uncontrolled'!

 

[Clark1961]

Your question: What was supposed to happen? Aircraft on final has the right-of-way.
How the hell do you pull right out onto the runway and stop? It happens, didn't hear the radio call for any number of causes, didn't see you on final. Stopped to check aircraft config prior to departure.

Any other questions?

Okay, I know your questions were more rhetorical than serious. Stuff happens. Avoid an accident because any number of reasons including you end up dead or injured.

 

[catmandu]

Yeah, he was making money, and felt privileged. You were having fun, and got to have more fun by executing your planned go around that was not interrupted by a landing, that particular time. You communicated your intentions, something many forget. I give you this week's POA GOLD STAR AVIATOR award! Huzzah!

 

[denverpilot]

Chit happens. Even at controlled fields.

Once your landing runway was blocked, your decision was made for you. Go around.

Stuff enters and exits runways even at controlled fields and sometimes they’re still there when they shouldn’t be. Sometimes it’s not humans.

You get to exercise those spiffy Pilot in Command skills and assure a good outcome to your flight.

 

[Shawn]

Communication...never assume he A) heard you, or B) knows exactly where you actually are.

"Podudunk traffic, Skyhawk 123 on SHORT final for full stop...jump plane on runway, ya better start rollin"

Having been in that situation before in a hectic environment, I get into the go around mindset but proceed then figuring out when I NEED to abort always leaving myself an out if he does not roll. Can be tight, but usually works itself out especially when there is a bit of communcation.

There are times if you are expecting a clear base, final, runaway and upwind before you commit to landing you will never get your wheel on the ground.

 

[Tom-D]

simple, just be the lowest plane, shut up and land.

Seems to work for every one except me.

 

[luvflyin]

Once he took the runway, right or wrong, best would be to go around, maintain runway heading, and offset to one side of the runway, announce position and intent, and rejoin the pattern on the crosswind.

What you did was survived. Nothing wrong with that.

Flying is learning.

Yeah. I'd say unless something going on made it necessary at the time, turning out 90 degrees and holding it low under the downwind is not the best action. Keeping the 'flow' of the 'pattern' by what you described is probably the better action. I'd add to it, go around 'right side' assuming you are flying from the left seat to keep an eye on whats going on down there on the runway. If that guy rolls and gets kinda 'abeam' you, you want to see it.

 

[FastEddieB]

That's why it's called 'uncontrolled'!

Funny. With Steven Bochco passing away I just looked to see if more seasons of Hill Street Blues were up. Previously only 1-3 could be streamed. Now all 7 seasons appear to be available on Hulu. Great show.

Oh, and to be pedantic, the FAA would prefer these fields be called “non-towered”, and has for some time.

 

[James331]

As someone who was a full time turbine DZ pilot for a couple years.

Did you ask him how to best enter the pattern?

Sometimes basic conversation solves these issues.

 

[Half Fast]

Funny. With Steven Bochco passing away I just looked to see if more seasons of Hill Street Blues were up. Previously only 1-3 could be streamed. Now all 7 seasons appear to be available on Hulu. Great show.

Oh, and to be pedantic, the FAA would prefer these fields be called “non-towered”, and has for some time.

I don’t know why they aren’t called “pilot controlled.” A field may have a tower that’s closed at certain times. It’s not like the tower vanishes and the field magically becomes non-towered; it merely reverts to pilot control for several hours.

 

[luvflyin]

........................................................................................................................................................................
...Oh, and to be pedantic, the FAA would prefer these fields be called “non-towered”, and has for some time.

I wonder if that was because they thought 'uncontrolled' just didn't sound good. Or because Towered airports ain't exactly under 'control' sometimes....

 

[dmspilot]

As someone who was a full time turbine DZ pilot for a couple years.

Did you ask him how to best enter the pattern?

Sometimes basic conversation solves these issues.

Why would someone who has already entered the traffic pattern ask an aircraft who is taxiing to the runway how he should enter the pattern?

 

[dmspilot]

I wonder if that was because they thought 'uncontrolled' just didn't sound good. Or because Towered airports ain't exactly under 'control' sometimes....

Maybe, but consider the perceived paradox in the case of an airport in a Class E surface area that doesn't have a control tower. An uncontrolled airport in controlled airspace? Likewise, it is also possible to have a towered airport in Class G.

 

[luvflyin]

Maybe, but consider the perceived paradox in the case of an airport in a Class E surface area that doesn't have a control tower. An uncontrolled airport in controlled airspace? Likewise, it is also possible to have a towered airport in Class G.

Yeah. Maybe all the confusion over what the definition of 'controlled airspace' is led to it. They got tired of answering questions about what's a 'controlled airport' doing in uncontrolled airspace

 

[James331]

Why would someone who has already entered the traffic pattern ask an aircraft who is taxiing to the runway how he should enter the pattern?

If you're flying into a busy drops zone, probably because you don't want to end up in a NTSB report

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I fly out of a "non-towered" that has a tower. But the tower is used just one weekend a year for the airshow.

 

[wilkersk]

Just another day in the life. Where I'm based, its like a free-for-all sometimes. With students doing stop-n-goes, "yellow-cub" doing 60mph 737 sized patterns, FedEx Caravan's making 10 mile straight-ins "traffic permitting" and the odd RV or Glassair making the "overhead break", you just learn to deal with it.

 

[denverpilot]

If you're flying into a busy drops zone, probably because you don't want to end up in a NTSB report

I think you misread who was on the ground and who was in the air.

I’m not quizzing anyone who says they’re taxiing out on how I should be flying my pattern, and no need to teach a student to do that either.

That’s stupid.

The jump plane was on the ground, pulled onto the runway and stopped for an extended period of time in front of landing traffic.

Read it again.

 

[Palmpilot]

I don’t know why they aren’t called “pilot controlled.” A field may have a tower that’s closed at certain times. It’s not like the tower vanishes and the field magically becomes non-towered; it merely reverts to pilot control for several hours.

Calling uncontrolled fields "pilot controlled" is looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, IMO.

 

[2Airtime2]

Thanks for all the replies. I did consider just a normal go around but to be honest, I had no idea when he was going to firewall that 700hp Cessna Caravan. I assume he didn't know I was there and was afraid he might fly right into my undercarriage. One thing I didn't mention, we have a grass strip beside (to my right) the main runway. There were trucks, a tow plane, and a glider all sitting on that grass runway. I guess I could have flown over them but when I decided to abort (luckily) I immediately saw a plane on downwind and determined there was a good safety factor (separation) by just going under.

I actually hesitated after I got in my truck to leave. I turned toward the Caravan which was loading passengers again. Then I stopped, turned, and just drove home. I'm glad I did. By reading the above responses (s#!t happens) and confronting the pilot...well, I can't think of anything good that would come from that.

Oh well. Stay alert and ALWAYS, ALWAYS fly the plane 1st.

 

[paflyer]

Sounds like the kind of goat rodeo airport I avoid like the plague.

I absolutely would have had a “chat” with the ahole timebuilder in the Caravan.

 

[jspilot]

Tough situation to be in but in the end, you handled it well and landed safely. I fly out of a pilot controlled airfield with jump planes doing nearly non stop takeoff a and landings practically all Spring-Fall. My experience is those guys are good on the radio but are not patient. I've watched them do extremely tight patterns and quick take offs with planes on final fairly often. I've never had a guy pull into the runway and then hold but I'd imagine maybe the guy did that because something was going on in the back of the plane that did not allow him to take off.

 

[Salty]

Sounds like the kind of goat rodeo airport I avoid like the plague.

I absolutely would have had a “chat” with the ahole timebuilder in the Caravan.

Most jump planes I’ve seen are the opposite. They don’t sit on the runway, they blast through the pattern like bulls in a china shop, usually their calls result in you looking two steps behind what they are actually doing.

Thanks for all the replies. I did consider just a normal go around but to be honest, I had no idea when he was going to firewall that 700hp Cessna Caravan. I assume he didn't know I was there and was afraid he might fly right into my undercarriage. One thing I didn't mention, we have a grass strip beside (to my right) the main runway. There were trucks, a tow plane, and a glider all sitting on that grass runway. I guess I could have flown over them but when I decided to abort (luckily) I immediately saw a plane on downwind and determined there was a good safety factor (separation) by just going under.

I actually hesitated after I got in my truck to leave. I turned toward the Caravan which was loading passengers again. Then I stopped, turned, and just drove home. I'm glad I did. By reading the above responses (s#!t happens) and confronting the pilot...well, I can't think of anything good that would come from that.

Oh well. Stay alert and ALWAYS, ALWAYS fly the plane 1st.

I think you did fine. I don’t like the idea of flying through the pattern, but I would have been worried about the same as you, the caravan would climb right through you. Maybe a turn to the right instead of left into the pattern?

 

[2Airtime2]

I did turn to the right but I know what you mean, turn away from of the pattern. I can't do that at my field. It's KLHZ, and the active was 5 which is R pattern. Planes have to stay on their side and the choppers have theirs. I'm sure one of the instructors (doing tandems) in the back told the pilot to hold because, as mentioned, they fly like cowboys here just like everywhere else and are seldom sitting still. I've seen their climb rate which is why I wanted to be nowhere above/in front of him.

 

[Ravioli]

Some things for @2Airtime2:
As stated previously, it's non-towered. If there is a tower that is not in operation it is non-towered. It is never uncontrolled, as the controls expected of pilots operating at a non-towered airport are well defined and you'd not be flying solo without demonstrating understanding of those controls.

Your dialog said you "always look right" before entering a runway. I think you mean you always clear the approach and departure ends of the runway. It's picky, but not every taxiway is a left turn to the runway. And only checking one direction is also problematic.

When the jump plane announced entering the runway, did you say immediately "Bugdestroyer 666 is short final RWxx, someplace" That usually wakes them up since they were just talking on the Freq. They may not have seen you, but they may hear you and hold.

Describe your go-around procedure. If you were on final, and some jackwagon stole your runway, why are you departing the pattern to go and reenter on the 45 to downwind? I would step to the pattern side (so as to not be overflying the runway), climb to pattern altitude, turn normal x-wind, and rejoin the downwind as if I was doing a go around... which is what you were doing. Moving to the pattern side should keep you away from the departing jump plane.

Finally, if the events happened as you described I'd be using the telephone to let jump commander know what he did. In these here parts (playing Texan for ya) there is a very popular non-towered airport with a jump outfit and good BBQ. (KSEP - Stephensville) It's popular for group fly outs, lunch runs, first solo XC, jumpers, and 4 corporate jets are based there. Talk about a balled up mess of experience levels

 

[UngaWunga]

Did you get on the horn and yell at the guy? That'd be the type-A pilot thing to do.

 

[mscard88]

Oh, and to be pedantic, the FAA would prefer these fields be called “non-towered”, and has for some time.

Yup. I'm slowly using that term more and more. Hell Eddie I'm still working on ATAs and CZs!

 

[FastEddieB]

Yup. I'm slowly using that term more and more. Hell Eddie I'm still working on ATAs and CZs!

When ever I see the “upside-down wedding cake”, what often first comes to mind is “TCA”, not “Class Bravo”.

Anyone can continue to call these things anything they like. But I think Flight Instuctors in particular should strive to use the recommended terminology with their students - and in online communication.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Jump planes are trying to cycle jumpers as fast as they can - expect them to take off and land on random runways - even downwind - most of the time they will announce intentions over the radio (at least in my experience). Ag guys are similar except they come in much lower and may or may not announce over CTAF.

They are trying to make the rent in a tough business, I'm just putzing for the sake of putzing. Move out of the way, and move on. No big deal.

 

[mscard88]

Anyone can continue to call these things anything they like. But I think Flight Instuctors in particular should strive to use the recommended terminology with their students - and in online communication.

 

[BigBadLou]

Jump planes are trying to cycle jumpers as fast as they can

Agreed, no problem with that. Except this dude stopped on the rwy instead of taking off.
If everyone shares the air and rwy nicely and politely, it works out. But if someone hogs something, playtime is drastically altered.

OP, you did it right, you went around. I might have added a snarky word or two to my go-around announcement like "Going around for a dumbazz parked on the rwy".

 

[denverpilot]

... I immediately saw a plane on downwind and determined there was a good safety factor (separation) by just going under.

I actually hesitated after I got in my truck to leave. I turned toward the Caravan which was loading passengers again. Then I stopped, turned, and just drove home. I'm glad I did. By reading the above responses (s#!t happens) and confronting the pilot...well, I can't think of anything good that would come from that.

Oh well. Stay alert and ALWAYS, ALWAYS fly the plane 1st.

As far as the side step goes, always try to sidestep to the side away from oncoming downwind traffic if you can. Can’t usually do that safely with parallel runways however.

As far as confronting the other pilot, I usually just ask “What happened?” The idiots I’ve seen who walk inside and yell at people never really accomplish anything.

For all you know he pulled out there and pushed the power up and had a mixture set too lean for taxi and killed it, or... any number of things. Some jumper screaming they don’t wanna die... LOL. Who knows.

Poor judgement for that pilot to rush out in front of you like that, but I bet they thought they could beat you off the runway. And then couldn’t. Or just completely missed or forgot you were there.

As long as you didn’t hit them or anybody else, I’d say you did fine for the cluster**** that a busy uncontrolled airport can become quickly. One pilot doing something odd can cascade into a circus.

 

[timwinters]

Jump planes are trying to cycle jumpers as fast as they can - expect them to take off and land on random runways - even downwind - most of the time they will announce intentions over the radio (at least in my experience). Ag guys are similar except they come in much lower and may or may not announce over CTAF.

They are trying to make the rent in a tough business, I'm just putzing for the sake of putzing. Move out of the way, and move on. No big deal.

I call total BS on this post. Making a living does not equal permission to ignore the regs and procedures. When the ag plane landed opposite direction over the top of me as I was rolling out at Lamar, Mo... it was not "no big deal."

He cleared me by 10'...15' max.

He and I are both lucky I wasn't carrying that day.

 

[Lindberg]

Thanks for all the replies. I did consider just a normal go around but to be honest, I had no idea when he was going to firewall that 700hp Cessna Caravan. I assume he didn't know I was there and was afraid he might fly right into my undercarriage. One thing I didn't mention, we have a grass strip beside (to my right) the main runway. There were trucks, a tow plane, and a glider all sitting on that grass runway. I guess I could have flown over them but when I decided to abort (luckily) I immediately saw a plane on downwind and determined there was a good safety factor (separation) by just going under.

I actually hesitated after I got in my truck to leave. I turned toward the Caravan which was loading passengers again. Then I stopped, turned, and just drove home. I'm glad I did. By reading the above responses (s#!t happens) and confronting the pilot...well, I can't think of anything good that would come from that.

Oh well. Stay alert and ALWAYS, ALWAYS fly the plane 1st.

The "normal" go around in this case would be to continue on the runway heading, sidestep to the right. I understand there was a tow plane and glider to the right of the runway, but it will be obvious when they're going to go. And they won't be at your altitude by the end of the runway. But bottom line, communicate.

 

[denverpilot]

When ever I see the “upside-down wedding cake”, what often first comes to mind is “TCA”, not “Class Bravo”.

Anyone can continue to call these things anything they like. But I think Flight Instuctors in particular should strive to use the recommended terminology with their students - and in online communication.

 

[danhagan]

My field used to be extremely busy, and things like that would happen (jump planes also - but never had issue with the jump planes). One of the CFIs (not around anymore) used to turn down the radio volume to talk to the student, with both he nand the student forgetting to correct it after run-up. Had several occasions that he pulled out on me on short final ... and I'd side step, keep an eye on him and climb back into the upwind.

This behavior stopped after everyone began to announce politely (I did several times and it caught on - as in a nice exchange - i.e. "Tiger 630 going around for the Cessna in the touchdown zone - tone of voice was never agitated in anyone's voice). We often would get as many as 6-10 in the pattern with at least 6 of those in closed traffic. That extended to guys at the hold short often keying up with "I've got the base to final traffic and expediting departure"

 

[steingar]

I would have calmly dressed down the jump pilot, preferably in front of a crowd. Indeed I would have been unable to leave without doing so. He created a very clear safety hazard. If I just let it go he could do the same thing with less desirable results, and some of that blame would be on me for not doing anything when I should have. I think a little reminder that he was depending on his ticket for his livelihood and his future and had quite a lot to loose with his unsafe behavior.