Uncontrolled field protocol

[RyanB]

I would have calmly dressed down the jump pilot, preferably in front of a crowd. Indeed I would have been unable to leave without doing so. He created a very clear safety hazard. If I just let it go he could do the same thing with less desirable results, and some of that blame would be on me for not doing anything when I should have. I think a little reminder that he was depending on his ticket for his livelihood and his future and had quite a lot to loose with his unsafe behavior.

You and me both. Once in awhile I’ll come across individuals who do things such as this and I usually will politely address them.

I put myself in their shoes. If I do something that was incorrect, I want to be told so I am made aware of my wrong doing.

 

[steingar]

You and me both. Once in awhile I’ll come across individuals who do things such as this and I usually will politely address them.

I put myself in their shoes. If I do something that was incorrect, I want to be told so I am made aware of my wrong doing.

More importantly (to me), if its you or I, we'll perhaps expose others to our unsafe behavior intermittently. A commercial jump pilot will have far more opportunity to endanger others, and should be held to a higher standing anyway. I'm just an amateur, the jump pilot is a pro.

 

[DaleB]

They are trying to make the rent in a tough business, I'm just putzing for the sake of putzing. Move out of the way, and move on. No big deal.

The fact that you're flying for money doesn't get you any "I don't need to follow procedures or watch for traffic" points. Unsafe is unsafe. That said, I do try to make room for people flying for a living, or flying things that suck down fuel like there's no tomorrow. I really don't mind doing a 360 for spacing or taking a lap around the lake while things settle down a bit.

I would have calmly dressed down the jump pilot, preferably in front of a crowd. Indeed I would have been unable to leave without doing so.

Why in front of a crowd? If you have a conversation with the offending pilot, it's for the sake of safety. Making a spectacle of it smacks of ego stroking, and makes the recipient of your adivce, request or tirade defensive and much less receptive. If there were a crowd around, I'd ask the guy to step aside and talk privately for a few minutes while we figured out what went wrong and how to avoid a repeat.

My own experience... I was on short final when another plane pulled out onto the runway right in front of me. It had never happened before. I opened the throttle, made a radio call to announce a go-around for traffic on the runway, went around and rejoined the pattern.

When we discussed it later, we figured out what happened. He had called to open his flight plan and left the radio on the wrong frequency (non-towered field, but we call Clearance at the nearby C). He didn't see me on final, probably because he didn't look -- I'm bright yellow and hard to miss. His first indication that I was there was when he was just lifting off and I went over the top of him at low altitude. He screwed up and pulled in front of me... I screwed up by NOT offsetting to one side or the other for the go-around. Lessons learned all around.

 

[RyanB]

More importantly (to me), if its you or I, we'll perhaps expose others to our unsafe behavior intermittently. A commercial jump pilot will have far more opportunity to endanger others, and should be held to a higher standing anyway. I'm just an amateur, the jump pilot is a pro.

Agreed. Although I am an amateur pilot, I try my best to make my flying as professional as possible to limit any unsafe behavior toward other pilots.

Why in front of a crowd? If you have a conversation with the offending pilot, it's for the sake of safety. Making a spectacle of it smacks of ego stroking, and makes the recipient of your adivce, request or tirade defensive and much less receptive. If there were a crowd around, I'd ask the guy to step aside and talk privately for a few minutes while we figured out what went wrong and how to avoid a repeat.

Yeah, shaming someone amongst a group isn’t necessary nor cool. A quick nudge on the shoulder or queue on the radio sends the message just as well.

 

[James331]

I think you misread who was on the ground and who was in the air.

I’m not quizzing anyone who says they’re taxiing out on how I should be flying my pattern, and no need to teach a student to do that either.

That’s stupid.

The jump plane was on the ground, pulled onto the runway and stopped for an extended period of time in front of landing traffic.

Read it again.

I read it, just don't care.

Coordinate with others, I've never met a single person who was glad that they pushed their right of away, being right doesn't feel as cool when it ends up with people in the ICU.

I would have calmly dressed down the jump pilot, preferably in front of a crowd. Indeed I would have been unable to leave without doing so. He created a very clear safety hazard. If I just let it go he could do the same thing with less desirable results, and some of that blame would be on me for not doing anything when I should have. I think a little reminder that he was depending on his ticket for his livelihood and his future and had quite a lot to loose with his unsafe behavior.

A crowd of jumpers...yeah...I'm sure they wouldn't have thought you were the man lol More likely you would have got laughed at, presuming the guy even shut down, many busy drop zones can keep that prop turning for 8 hours straight.

If I'm flying into some airport and someone is doing photography, DZ, simulated engine failures, I'll have a two way conversation and figure out the best way for both of us to do what we want, really isn't rocket surgery.

 

[steingar]

"In front of a crowd" is so the offending pilot looses face, which will hopefully cause him to remember the lesson longer and with greater clarity. I always made it a rule to never dress down my subordinates in front of others. If anything like that were to happen it was in my office behind a closed door. Their mistakes might have affected their work, but hey didn't create safety hazards. If anyone did something like that they'd get it in front of everyone. Thankfully I had a good crew and never needed to go there. But the jump pilot created an unsafe condition that easily could have cost lives.

 

[James331]

"In front of a crowd" is so the offending pilot looses face, which will hopefully cause him to remember the lesson longer and with greater clarity. I always made it a rule to never dress down my subordinates in front of others. If anything like that were to happen it was in my office behind a closed door. Their mistakes might have affected their work, but hey didn't create safety hazards. If anyone did something like that they'd get it in front of everyone. Thankfully I had a good crew and never needed to go there. But the jump pilot created an unsafe condition that easily could have cost lives.

I don't think this ego stroking mission would go the way you think it would go.

 

[James331]

Also the full stop could have been for a valid reason, winds change for a student jumper, tandem gets cold feet, who knows.

I'd have just flown the pattern, or circled.

 

[PaulS]

"In front of a crowd" is so the offending pilot looses face, which will hopefully cause him to remember the lesson longer and with greater clarity. I always made it a rule to never dress down my subordinates in front of others. If anything like that were to happen it was in my office behind a closed door. Their mistakes might have affected their work, but hey didn't create safety hazards. If anyone did something like that they'd get it in front of everyone. Thankfully I had a good crew and never needed to go there. But the jump pilot created an unsafe condition that easily could have cost lives.

Yeah, you know, when you get an opportunity to show your superiority over someone by attempting to humiliate them you do it in front of a crowd so everyone can see your awesomeness and power, you know, to give the guy a lesson..... got it.

 

[James331]

Yeah, you know, when you get an opportunity to show your superiority over someone by attempting to humiliate them you do it in front of a crowd so everyone can see your awesomeness and power, you know, to give the guy a lesson..... got it.

And he would have come off as that old guy in his new balance sneakers yelling for kids to say off his lawn.

The drop zone crew would have laughed about him later that night at the bar.

 

[zaitcev]

"In front of a crowd" is so the offending pilot looses face, which will hopefully cause him to remember the lesson longer and with greater clarity.

What he's going to remember is how wrong you were and how poor your upbringing was, longer, is all.

 

[Zeldman]

As I was going around, I probably would have keyed the mike and said, "Jump plane on the runway, were you aware of the traffic on short final as you pulled out in front of me.?" And let it go at that. He might not have replied, but hopefully he will check final next time. Or the boss might hear it.

 

[RyanB]

As I was going around, I probably would have keyed the mike and said, "Jump plane on the runway, were you aware of the traffic on short final as you pulled out in front of me.?" And let it go at that. He might not have replied, but hopefully he will check final next time. Or the boss might hear it.

Ditto.

 

[PaulS]

As I was going around, I probably would have keyed the mike and said, "Jump plane on the runway, were you aware of the traffic on short final as you pulled out in front of me.?" And let it go at that. He might not have replied, but hopefully he will check final next time. Or the boss might hear it.

This, we all screw up, luckily the op was on the ball that day and prevented a disaster, good job.

 

[BigBadLou]

As I was going around, I probably would have keyed the mike and said, "Jump plane on the runway, were you aware of the traffic on short final as you pulled out in front of me.?" And let it go at that. He might not have replied, but hopefully he will check final next time. Or the boss might hear it.

Sure, he needs to know that he's causing trouble and creating a safety hazard.
But will the boss care? Not really if he wants to make money hauling meatbombs. His business is based on quick turnarounds, not being polite and following rules. But let's hope that they actually do care about safety.

We had a situation years ago where a customer wanted to buy product B. Sales guy kept pushing product A and kept showing it off. Customer requested numerous times to see product B. Sales guy wouldn't back down and kept showing product A since it was pricier and the commission was juicier.
Customer got fed up, told the sales guy to go have sexual relations with himself and bought similar product B from a competitor.
This got to the sales manager here in HQ. When he heard about it, he called the sales guy in all the way from FL. Poor guy, we thought, he's gonna get it. He sure did! He got it big time. He was promoted to local sales branch manager for his heroic efforts.
See, nobody gives a sh*t about the customer anymore, only about his money. We are cash cows. Get used to it. Moooo!