Uncontrolled airport with knucklehead in pattern

Shawn said:
Sorry...immature is attacking the messenger and not the message. Didn't realize perfect grammar was a prerequisite for valid opinions...talk about judgmental...but to be expected on POA.

I am wrong all the time and like to learn from that.
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I didn’t attack you. I gave you a polite heads up that using slang words like “cuz” makes you look lazy and immature. That’s not attacking you.
 
The looking at the iPad wasn't a problem. If you hear a stall horn you look at the airspeed to confirm. He simply glanced at the traffic screen to try to confirm what he was hearing. As for a guy flying against the grain? It happens. You aren't the airport police. Break out and re-enter the pattern after the chucklehead is down. The only one you're responsible for is you.

Immature is the repetitive reference to iJunk.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I didn’t attack you. I gave you a polite heads up that using slang words like “cuz” makes you look lazy and immature. That’s not attacking you.
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HA!...Ok, I am not lazy and immature...just LOOK lazy and immature due to my grammatical malfeasance and that is not a personal attack? That is called a backhanded compliment...none of which has anything to do with the issue at hand hence the backlash.

(trying to use big words to "look" mature)
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I think you just don’t like hearing that you’re doing it wrong. Using “cuz” multiple times in your post also makes you come across as lazy and immature.
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Tarheelpilot said:
I didn’t call him any names. What on earth are you talking about???
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Shawn said:
Most of today's younger generation spends all day rapidly processing digital information and muti-tasking. It is a skill that much of the older generation do not possess (many, not all).

What set me off was the notion that just cuz some takes a long time to process that information as you noted, it is extremely judgmental to assume that everyone has that limitation...cuz it is not the case for everyone.

I am not advocating for heads down in the pattern, but to admonish someone for using all available tools at their disposal for safety as an AID to situation awareness is freakin absurd IMO.
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I’ve been “rapidly processing digital information” since long before you were born. I’d wager I’m above average at it. It’s not a factor.

It takes more than a second to find the targets on an iPad and understand the information about them. Especially when there are 3 or 4. A LOT more than a second. You shouldn’t have your focus inside the plane for more than a second when in the pattern with 3 or 4 others planes.
 
Wow - it's so fun to post on POA and watch how fast it degenerates into name calling and snarky remarks. I get it - thats the charm of this place.


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PaulS said:
I should clarify, I'm talking about looking to a TAS display on the panel, which literally takes about a second to glance at and look back outside. I don't use my IPAD, which is on my knee, for this.

I think tas is very useful, especially when 5 miles out, just to figure out what is going on in the pattern, at least with AC that have adsb.
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My comment had nothing to do with 5 miles out. It had to do with being in the pattern with 3 or 4 other planes.
 
PaulS said:
Yup, he was RNAV 14 circle to land 32, could be an issue depending on how he flew it, or a non issue if he broke off into the circle in time. I'm working on my IR and have been doing a lot of circle to land approaches, always interesting, haven't had a traffic issue yet, except at my busy home field where I've been asked to break it off early and land to accommodate other traffic.
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There was no issue on my ability to enter pattern based on what everyone was flying. It was of a post about how someone was situationally unaware with 5 planes in the pattern.


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Kritchlow said:
I’m not suggesting he was not a knucklehead, but....

There is no active runway at an unctrolled airport, and your instructor had no business demanding he not land.
I think a “there’s lots of traffic in the pattern and we are all using 32” would have been more appropriate.
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Yes that's true. I don't remember the exact phrase but not stopping his landing opposite to one on the runway and one on final would not be good either.


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Salty said:
My comment had nothing to do with 5 miles out. It had to do with being in the pattern with 3 or 4 other planes.
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I know Salty, and you and I disagree, I would look at the traffic display for someone like the OP described unless I saw him immediately, just like I look at the airspeed indicator occasionally in the pattern. YMMV.
 
Tommar98 said:
There was no issue on my ability to enter pattern based on what everyone was flying. It was of a post about how someone was situationally unaware with 5 planes in the pattern.


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I know, I was answering Eman.
 
Unit74 said:
Yea Bruh.... Im like, OK... Are you in IFR mode and all that while the mouth breathers are be-bopping around the patter? Lemme guess OP, you were also calling out your location by the FAF and IF all hot shot like....... Ain't showing up on your iPad? Is your eyeball broken too or was your head down trying to figure out why your ADSB wasn't 100% accurate?
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So I understand the trolling on POA but not sure I get where your coming from. I wasn't in "IFR mode" when we ended the approach and entered the pattern. We did announce 6 miles out on rnav 14 and circle to land. I announced crosswind entry. I announced we had traffic on downwind ahead of us. I also understand someone can get goofed up on which runway is being used. But with so many people announcing pattern for 32 it is odd how this person was so unaware of what was going on.

The point of the IPad reference was to reiterate that it isn't a good tool in the pattern and your eyes out of the cockpit are more helpful. I doubt I looked at my yoke mounted iPad for more than a few seconds - that was my point - it's not helpful unless you bury your head in the cockpit - which isn't good.


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iPads are very useful. I use one paired with a gdl39 for traffic, weather, and navigation. I just don’t think it’s a good use of your attention in a pattern with a bunch of other airplanes.
 
Shawn said:
Great...there goes my ENTIRE argument...jeez...[throws iPad out the window]
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Sorry. I like the IPad en route to help when atc says "traffic 2 O'clock 5 miles..." and it was helpful when we were further out from pattern. But my takeaway from the experience was that looking out the window and finding the other traffic was clearly the way to go. When I was turning base and heard his call I looked back downwind and there is was angling toward me and cutting short his patter (very short I might add) since I was still well within the standard pattern flown for 32. Anyway- it was just an experience to share. Maybe I shouldn't have titled it "knucklehead" in the pattern.


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I don't fault anyone for glancing down at their ADS-B in to verify a traffic call anywhere. There are a lot of knucklehead pilots, students and sometimes instructors flying around. There are also a lot of trainee air traffic controllers around. We're about to wash one out because, among other things, every traffic call he makes is "twelve o'clock."
 
Shawn said:
Sorry, that is complete and utter BS. Having technology as an AID to situational awareness to QUICKLY obtain a visual on the traffic you are looking for is a MUCH better when you are looking for multiple known targets rather then having to find them all blindly and still look for the unknown. If you rely on the information as your only input, yes, you are an idiot but if a glance at a screen is too much information for you to manage in the cockpit in a high workload environment, there are bigger issues in the pilot's abilities.
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Aircraft A announces: mid field left down wing podunk.

You are mid left field poduck and you look at your IPAD?
 
Clip4 said:
Aircraft A announces: mid field left down wing podunk.

You are mid left field poduck and you look at your IPAD?
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You are making assumptions as to FIRST course of actions and not what I said or advocated for. When there are four other targets announcing and NOT immediately identifiable visually I am sure as heck taking a quick glance to get an orientation where they ACTUALLY are in relation to me and where exactly to look out the window if that information is readily available vs just taking a guess outta any one of the windows. Pilots make incorrect and sloppy position call ALL the time.

Context matters per the OP's scenario vs. your cherry picked example.

But addressing your scenario...if the the other pilot DOES announce also in downwind that I am on and I can't find him...dang right I am gonna take a glance to possibly see where he is as well as continue to communicate! To ignore that available information is foolish IMO...as is being fixated on an iPad screen...which is not necessary unless you do not understand what you are seeing quickly enough.
 
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Believe the OP's CFI forgot who has right of way during landing at a non towered airport. If the aircraft landing on 32 was lower he had right of way..

This happens when Instrument pilots decide to practice approaches on CAVU days, you must know that the nordo's are going to be out in force.
And the IFR guy has their eyes on ??

really not using common sense.
 
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Agreed...use everything you have to enhance the safety of the flight. This includes your eyes and any relevant technology you have at your disposal.
 
I would be curious ? where was the wind when all these aircraft were trying to land?
 
Tom-D said:
Believe the OP's CFI forgot who has right of way during landing at a non towered airport. If the aircraft landing on 32 was lower he had right of way..

This happens when Instrument pilots decide to practice approaches on CAVU days, you must know that the nerds re going to be out in force.
And the IFR guy has their eyes on ??

really not using common sense.
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That's correct. CFI told pilot on base leg to 14 that one plane was on runway and another on short final for 32.


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Tom-D said:
I would be curious ? where was the wind when all these aircraft were trying to land?
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14 is the calm wind runway. Winds were roughly 330 at 10-12. I didn't even want to get into that but he would have had a decent tailwind to handle. The scenario was more about lack of situational awareness with so much traffic. I'm sure on a quiet day with only 2 planes in the pattern and wind not a factor - this could and does happen. With all the radio calls going on it's just puzzling that he was so unaware of what was happening.


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Tommar98 said:
So I was finishing up some IFR training with my instructor doing an RNAV approach with a circle to land back at our uncontrolled airport. It was sunny skies and busy. It was busy enough that approach control had dropped one pilot VFR flight following and the supervisor came right back on the frequency and told that plane to maintain its squawk and stay on the frequency. I was cleared for approach and asked to squawk VFR by approach. We could hear about 4-5 planes in and around pattern as we approached and announced our position as we proceeded in. The RNAV approach was for opposite end of currently used runway (RNAV approach was for runway 14 and runway 32 was being used for TO/landing).

I announced our crosswind for active runway and counted 3 planes ahead of me. A fourth plane announced downwind for 14 (not the active runway). I assumed maybe he said it in error as maybe it was a student pilot. I looked down at foreflight on my Ipad and located 3 of the planes ahead of me but not the 4th that announced. I then announced I was in downwind for 32. At that time one plane was landing; one was on final and another was turning base. Just then, I hear the 4th pilot announce turning base for 14! My CFI pipes in and tells him "32 is active- do not land on 14, there are 3 planes in pattern for 32." So the pilot announces he's headed for downwind for 32. Obviously he doesn't have any ADSB because I cant see him on Ipad. As I am turning base - had to extend it just a tad because of line - I hear this guy now announce he's on downwind for 32 and turning base!

I was looking out my window and there he is coming toward my on an angle -basically cutting off the downwind and angling toward base leg. I have to announce WE are on base leg and can see him - asked if he had us in sight. He says "oh ya - I see you" and then turns back toward the downwind.

Needless to say it was a big distraction having to keep track of this joker. No idea what he was listening to on CTAF (he was obviously on it and announcing position) and how he could be so unaware of what was going on. I did learn a little something about the foreflight and ADSB during this experience. It can see it might be easy to get distracted with your head down in cockpit looking at that instead of out the window. I didn't do that but I can see it being a potential problem. In my case, listening to who was where in the pattern and looking out the window (and seeing him coming to cut off my base turn) was clearly more valuable. Just a reminder of how crazy it can be on a busy GA day. It just made me wonder if it was just the guy on short final and the other guy landing what could have happened.
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Don’t think you should need to be looking at ADSB to be able to see other aircraft in the pattern for the same airport, let alone runway.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Yes really. I said “it comes across” not “you are”. My comment was very specific to the way the the post could be perceived not what he actually is as a person. Read the whole post. Not just what you bolded.
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Semantics is not en excuse....
 
I've always wondered why folks come here and makes these posts like the OP. What was to be learned from it? Now I wonder why it hasn't been locked as it's really served no purpose.
 
EppyGA said:
I've always wondered why folks come here and makes these posts like the OP. What was to be learned from it? Now I wonder why it hasn't been locked as it's really served no purpose.
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Maybe not to you.
 
Tommar98 said:
14 is the calm wind runway. Winds were roughly 330 at 10-12. I didn't even want to get into that but he would have had a decent tailwind to handle. The scenario was more about lack of situational awareness with so much traffic. I'm sure on a quiet day with only 2 planes in the pattern and wind not a factor - this could and does happen. With all the radio calls going on it's just puzzling that he was so unaware of what was happening.


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He may have been talking to ATC on the RNAV 14 approach.
 
Tommar98 said:
...With all the radio calls going on it's just puzzling that he was so unaware of what was happening...
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What do you expect to get out of this thread? Someone to tell you that you're so right and that guy was a jerk? Then what? Nothing happened, let it go already and move on with the rest of your life.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I’m not making excuses. Im correcting you.
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Regardless of what you say now, you posted it, not me. You’re not correcting me.,.. you are walking it back. Nice try flipping the script though. Perhaps you should address it with him, not me.
 
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