Uncontrolled airport: Full or partial call sign?

[Johann]

Let's hear it.

Of course, assume there's no one on frequency with a close enough call sign.

What I read is that partial is recommended. Uses less air time, easier to remember if someone needs to refer to me, and since this is not ATC having to keep track of airplanes (for enforcement or whatever), it's good enough.

My instructor used the full one when we went, but I still think partial is better. Any good argument for using the full one?

 

[EdFred]

No one can read my tail number anyway.

Podunk traffic, Comanche base 27, podunk.

 

[N659HB]

I fly from an uncontrolled field. When flying with my instructor we would always use the full call sign initially with an abbreviated version thereafter. It comes naturally now.

 

[Shawn]

I use "Cessna XYZ" for non towered and "Skylane 79XYZ" for any ATC communications...more for just convenience. Other pilots won't care what my full call sign is but may care that I am a Cessna when looking out for me.

Some pilots seem paranoid about using their tail number over the air...heard more then once at my home field and surrounding airports "Watsonville traffic, Blue Mooney...or Yellow Bi-Plane..."

 

[MachFly]

I just say my type, tail number is irrelevant. No one needs to know it nor should be close enough to be able to read it. In cases where there is another aircraft of the same type I add a color, if that doesn't work only then I add a part of my tail.

 

[Aileron]

I don't use a callsign at all, just color and type. No need to volunteer free information to those who own scanners and live to complain.

Sent from my SM-T325 using Tapatalk

 

[FORANE]

The AIM provides guidance on this issue if I recall and recommends phraseology including aircraft type and tail number which is what I do.

 

[Shepherd]

FAA says use your full call sign.
But:
Near a local uncontrolled field we have professional whiner who listens to the field frequency, and will report any plane that uses it's "N" number as "flying dangerously low" or "doing illegal aerobatics", and even "buzzing children playing at the school".
We use creative radio techniques when we fly there.

 

[SCCutler]

Color and type is more relevant, really.

I will use an abbreviated N-number in most instances.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

FAA says use your full call sign.
But:
Near a local uncontrolled field we have professional whiner who listens to the field frequency, and will report any plane that uses it's "N" number as "flying dangerously low" or "doing illegal aerobatics", and even "buzzing children playing at the school".
We use creative radio techniques when we fly there.

May I suggest N50545?

 

[comanchepilot]

No one can read my tail number anyway.

Podunk traffic, Comanche base 27, podunk.

First call up gets my full number for the NSA - after that - I use the above -

 

[JHW]

same here. no call sign most of the time

"travel air left downwind 33"
"king air 2 mile final 18"
" "
(that last one was my call from the aeronca champ)

 

[flyingriki]

Color and type is more relevant, really.

I will use an abbreviated N-number in most instances.

works for me

We had a local Stearman with 747 in his tail number....guess what his call out was?
Boeing 747 left base fot 18.
Got some folks pretty excited!

 

[ClimbnSink]

Trick question if the field is uncontrolled your radio, if you even had one, wouldn't be on.

 

[asechrest]

"White Cessna 22V, left downwind 18."

 

[timwinters]

I use full call sign on my initial call "skylane 5057d" then "skylane 57d" on all subsequent calls.

Why?

I don't know.

 

[asechrest]

I use full call sign on my initial call "skylane 5057d" then "skylane 57d" on all subsequent calls.

Why?

I don't know.

Well, it does make it a bit easier for another plane in the pattern or on the ground to reference you.

"57D, I see you on final and we're holding short."

 

[timwinters]

May I suggest N50545?

Or N805MX...that might give the guy a woody.

 

[poadeleted20]

No one can read my tail number anyway.

Podunk traffic, Comanche base 27, podunk.

That works fine if you're the only Comanche in the pattern out in the boonies, but not so much if you're a Cessna at a busy training field. We had a Grumman lunch fly-in a few months ago, and two people were just calling themselves just "Grumman" in the pattern at the same time-- that created some confusion. Some people like to use color plus make, but "white Cessna" doesn't help much, either. I'll stick with "aircraft type plus last three" (Tiger 2RL in my case) unless there's a similar call sign (like my old Grumman 64U and my pal Bill's Grumman 46U -- both Cheetahs, too) in the pattern at the same time, in which case I'll use more.

 

[airheadpenguin]

I've had someone adamantly demand my full tail number flying into Robinson field in New Jersey last year. I did nothing and figured we could discuss it on the ground of he really cared. ATC knew who I was,I had just been on flight following so it couldn't have been them.

Oddly I never did run into that guy,I suspect it was a perpetual whiner like mentioned above

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[jordane93]

I've always said type and N number

 

[MachFly]

That works fine if you're the only Comanche in the pattern out in the boonies, but not so much if you're a Cessna at a busy training field. We had a Grumman lunch fly-in a few months ago, and two people were just calling themselves just "Grumman" in the pattern at the same time-- that created some confusion. Some people like to use color plus make, but "white Cessna" doesn't help much, either. I'll stick with "aircraft type plus last three" (Tiger 2RL in my case) unless there's a similar call sign (like my old Grumman 64U and my pal Bill's Grumman 46U -- both Cheetahs, too) in the pattern at the same time, in which case I'll use more.

Agreed, but that's really only valid when your flying a 172 or Cherokee. Everything else is extremely rare. Plus if you do find another aircraft of the same type in the patter (as your Grumman occurrence) then you can easily adjust and add a few letters, you don't have to do it all the time.

 

[poadeleted20]

Agreed, but that's really only valid when your flying a 172 or Cherokee. Everything else is extremely rare.

That's not my experience. And folks flying 172's use "Cessna" a lot more than "Skyhawk", and there's a lot of "Cessnas" out there.

Plus if you do find another aircraft of the same type in the patter (as your Grumman occurrence) then you can easily adjust and add a few letters, you don't have to do it all the time.

Law of Exercise tells us otherwise -- generally speaking, you'll do what you do habitually. If you don't make type plus last-3 your regular habit, you won't do it when the pattern is full and the CTAF is busy.

 

[MachFly]

That's not my experience. And folks flying 172's use "Cessna" a lot more than "Skyhawk", and there's a lot of "Cessnas" out there.

I don't see that being a problem. All other Cessnas that are in the pattern can call themselves something else, and most do.
When I flew the 421 I called myself a "golden eagle" (or "twin-cessna" on occasion) and never had a problem of being confused with other 172s in the pattern that were calling themselves "cessna."

Law of Exercise tells us otherwise -- generally speaking, you'll do what you do habitually. If you don't make type plus last-3 your regular habit, you won't do it when the pattern is full and the CTAF is busy.

Perhaps.

 

[DesertNomad]

I always use type plus full for the first call and type plus 3 for subsequent calls. I never use "Cessna" but rather Skyhawk or Skylane

 

[Brad Z]

Unless "Red Cessna" is your radio station call sign, sounds like most of y'all (cap'n Ron included) are breaking the rules...

47 CFR §87.107 Station identification.

(a) Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:

(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.

(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.

 

[MachFly]

Unless "Red Cessna" is your radio station call sign, sounds like most of y'all (cap'n Ron included) are breaking the rules...

47 CFR §87.107 Station identification.

(a) Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:

(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.

(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.

Considering that you're allowed to not communicate at all while operating at an untowered field, I don't see legal a problem with saying just your type.

 

[3393RP]

I prefer to use an abbreviated call sign, and that's also what I prefer to hear from other aircraft. It helps my situational awareness and mental picture of traffic in the area.

 

[TheHulk]

I always open up with the full call sign and then abbreviate after that.

 

[EdFred]

Unless "Red Cessna" is your radio station call sign, sounds like most of y'all (cap'n Ron included) are breaking the rules...

47 CFR §87.107 Station identification.

(a) Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:

(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.

(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.

You must be a real hit at parties. Feel free to report me to the FCC.

 

[BillTIZ]

FAA says use your full call sign.
But:
Near a local uncontrolled field we have professional whiner who listens to the field frequency, and will report any plane that uses it's "N" number as "flying dangerously low" or "doing illegal aerobatics", and even "buzzing children playing at the school".
We use creative radio techniques when we fly there.

FSDO would most likely monitor the traffic at the airport, realize that the whiner's reports are bogus and then just pay him lip service in the future.

Plus, if you were to attend those FAASTeam safety meetings and meet your local FAA reps, you would have an inside track to counter the whiners complaints.

 

[jesse]

Considering that you're allowed to not communicate at all while operating at an untowered field, I don't see legal a problem with saying just your type.

FCC would disagree with you. They always want a way to determine who is responsible for a transmission, for well basically everything. The quoted regulation is FCC territory. They could care less about the aviation implication.

As to the likelihood of the FCC busting you over it, well, that's not going to happen.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I always only say "Tampico Six Papa Charlie" when I am inbound.
once on base or final, I just say "Six Papa Charlie's, final, one seven, full stop/Toucn n Go"

 

[Jim Logajan]

Considering that you're allowed to not communicate at all while operating at an untowered field, I don't see legal a problem with saying just your type.

Radio station ID is required by the FCC (not FAA) so that people who, say, don't realize their transmitters are emitting harmonics outside the bands it was approved for, can be warned of the problem so they can fix it. (The FCC generally does warn before initiating enforcement action.) You might not realize you are causing a problem - hence the ID requirement.

The radio spectrum is vastly more crowded than the skies are crowded with aircraft, and using radio station IDs in each transmission is a way of showing no ill intent should problems arise.

"Podunk traffic, blue Mooney 123 entering the 45 for left downwind 18, Podunk," would seem to satisfy both see-and-avoid and FCC requirements without too much wordage.

 

[JHW]

...is a way of showing no ill intent...

ah yes, the great conspiracy to tie up frequency 123.0 and deprive the people of it

 

[Brad Z]

You must be a real hit at parties. Feel free to report me to the FCC.

I am, actually.

Hey, I'm just reporting what the regs say. If they don't apply to you, do as you'd like, I don't really care.

 

[Zeldman]

Nothing, I mean nothing irritates me more than some idiot that gets on the radio at a non-towered airport and goes, "any traffic please advise". I usually respond with something like, "my airplane doesnt have a radio, so what do I say?" Or I will come back with "Brown and orange twin cessna 414 November 12345 still departing the area in the opposite direction as you as I reported 3 seconds ago."

Any traffic please advise. Oh please, I am a professional pilot and no more want to run into you as you want to run into me. That is why I just transmitted my intentions in the blind as to what I am doing and about to do 3 seconds before you came on the radio. I expect you to listen and visualise where I am and where I am going. If you missed anything ask me and I will repeat. I once heard a regional pilot ask any traffic please advise, so I announced my position and asked him if he was a student pilot. I think the captain made the radio calls after that.

I am very tolerant of any student pilot or any weekend fair weather pilot that may talk too much, but dont treat me stupid and ask any traffic please advise.

And to answer the original question, I just use "Podunk traffic twin cessna 321 10 east planning 24... Podunk." And if I hear other traffic then I will keep them informed on my position otherwise I just make standard traffic reports.

 

[Pilawt]

And what's with this "last call" thing I've been hearing from outbound traffic lately. Is that a threat or a promise?

 

[SkyHog]

"Airplane, Left Downwind."

 

[Lindberg]

Nothing, I mean nothing irritates me more than some idiot that gets on the radio at a non-towered airport and goes, "any traffic please advise". I usually respond with something like, "my airplane doesnt have a radio, so what do I say?" Or I will come back with "Brown and orange twin cessna 414 November 12345 still departing the area in the opposite direction as you as I reported 3 seconds ago."

Any traffic please advise. Oh please, I am a professional pilot and no more want to run into you as you want to run into me. That is why I just transmitted my intentions in the blind as to what I am doing and about to do 3 seconds before you came on the radio. I expect you to listen and visualise where I am and where I am going. If you missed anything ask me and I will repeat. I once heard a regional pilot ask any traffic please advise, so I announced my position and asked him if he was a student pilot. I think the captain made the radio calls after that.

I am very tolerant of any student pilot or any weekend fair weather pilot that may talk too much, but dont treat me stupid and ask any traffic please advise.

And to answer the original question, I just use "Podunk traffic twin cessna 321 10 east planning 24... Podunk." And if I hear other traffic then I will keep them informed on my position otherwise I just make standard traffic reports.

My favorites are the, "Podunk traffic, Bugs smasher 12345CV, thirteen miles to the NNW at 4,500, inbound for 18, going to practice the GPS approach to 18, low pass, Podunk. Any traffic, please advise." Then two minutes later, "Podunk traffic, Bugs smasher 12345CV . . . ."

I'll use Yellow Cub sometimes when I'm in the Cub because I don't have the tail number memorized and there's no placard, since there's no radio. "Yellow Cub" seems much more useful that Piper 1234R anyway. The good news is that when someone sics the FCC on me, they won't know who I am...