Uh oh, here we go again (Sleep Apena)

Here'sthe link to the new guidance:

https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=18156


>>>

What is the new guidance?

BMI alone will not disqualify a pilot or require an OSA evaluation. The risk for OSA will be determined by an integrated assessment of history, symptoms, and physical/clinical findings. OSA screening will only be done by the AME at the time of the physical examination using the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) guidance provided in the AME Guide. Pilots who are at risk for OSA will be issued a regular medical certificate and referred for an evaluation which may be done by any physician (including the AME), not just a sleep medicine specialist, following AASM guidelines. If an evaluation is required, a laboratory sleep study or home study will not be required unless the evaluating physician determines it is warranted. The pilot may continue flying during the evaluation periodand treatment, if indicated.. The airman will have 90 days (or longer under special circumstances) to accomplish this. The FAA may consider an extension in some cases. Pilots diagnosed with OSA and undergoing treatment may send documentation of effective treatment to the FAA to arrange for a Special Issuancemedical certificate to replace the regular medical certificate.

<<<
 
I have OSA but you probably couldn't tell by looking at me. 6' 220. I'm a bit think in the middle but certainly not a guy who a AME would look at and think, wow, that's an OSA candidate if I ever saw one.

That said, getting the special issuance took me almost 18 months of back-and-forth. It a terrible experience but the folks down in OKC were always professional and helpful (where they could be).
 
It says:

"OSA screening will only be done by the AME at the time of the physical examination using the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) guidance provided in the AME Guide."

I tried to find what the AASM guidance says in the AME Guide, but:

"When will the new guidance take affect?
The FAA plans to publish the new guidance in the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners on March 2, 2015."

Unless someone knows Doc Bruce and can get an advanced copy, we'll have to wait a little while to find out what criteria the AME is going to use to trigger further investigation.
 
In case anyone is interested - I did ask about this on the Red Board. I'm interested in 2 things: 1) what Doc Bruce says about it, and 2) the number of "it isn't fair!!!" and "this is stupid!!!" posts that result.
 
Oh.....
yawn.gif
 
I have absolutely no problem with this for a first class or even second class medical. Third class is absolutely absurd.
 
Can someone explain why this is a bad thing? (Thats a serious request)

As someone who is currently trying to sort out possible OSA before I go for my medical, it sounds like not being grounded while I deal with it is a good thing, no?


is it just the fact that sleep apnea grounds a recreational pilot?
 
Wrench978 said:
Can someone explain why this is a bad thing? (Thats a serious request)
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Because OSA in not necessarily a black and white thing. It takes the decision away from the pilot in say the IM SAFE acronym to make a safe evaluation of ones state mentally and physically in relation to their ability to safely fly a flight at that point in time. It takes it away from the individual and turns it into a blanket one size fits all since you have the possibility to be fatigued, you may not fly at all.

For commercial ops, I have no problem. It is done in the trucking industry.
 
Doc Bruce didn't get into details on the new AME guidelines for this, except to to say it's 22 pages long.

It sounds like the average AME might take the easy way out - instead of going through 22 pages of evaluations, he'll just send you off to deal with it on your own, and the clock will start running for your medical.

I didn't get an answer to my question: What's going to trigger the AME to initiate the evaluation in the first place?

Will have to wait until March.
 
Wrench978 said:
Can someone explain why this is a bad thing? (Thats a serious request)

As someone who is currently trying to sort out possible OSA before I go for my medical, it sounds like not being grounded while I deal with it is a good thing, no?


is it just the fact that sleep apnea grounds a recreational pilot?
Click to expand...

The GOOD thing - FAA will let you fly while you sort it out. The BAD thing - the AME is now being put into the position that should be the duty of the pilot's personal physician.
 
Imsafe doesn't work with osa. They don't know they are tired. Judgment on judgment is impaired.

Shawn said:
Because OSA in not necessarily a black and white thing. It takes the decision away from the pilot in say the IM SAFE acronym to make a safe evaluation of ones state mentally and physically in relation to their ability to safely fly a flight at that point in time. It takes it away from the individual and turns it into a blanket one size fits all since you have the possibility to be fatigued, you may not fly at all.

For commercial ops, I have no problem. It is done in the trucking industry.
Click to expand...
 
I also think this is telling about the chances of the 3rd class medical ever going away. If the FAA thought for a minute it was going away they wouldn't be bothering with this at the 3rd class level.
 
I'm wondering what problem this fixes? ....is this a problem causing accidents?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I'm wondering what problem this fixes? ....is this a problem causing accidents?
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I don't know about you but I have been losing sleep worrying that a sleeping GA pilot could plow through the roof of my house at any moment. :rofl:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I'm wondering what problem this fixes? ....is this a problem causing accidents?
Click to expand...

Yes, train accidents. If we are going to have medical standards to prevent crashes osa is a reasonable thing to look for. People don't like it because the risk factor is being fat, OK to pick on the drunks and druggies but fat people are sensitive.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I'm wondering what problem this fixes? ....is this a problem causing accidents?
Click to expand...

According to some reports, chronic fatigue causes the same kind of decision making degradation as 0.xx blood alcohol levels (I don't remember the number.) FAA doesn't want pilots flying while dopey - or, the overlords FAA report to don't want it.

I know we've been through the arguments many times before. But it sounds like it's a done deal now. Just have to see how it plays out starting soon enough.
 
I think the only recourse now is to have Congress cut their funding.
 
zaitcev said:
I think the only recourse now is to have Congress cut their funding.
Click to expand...


And go back to Continuous Resolutions without a budget, to keep them guessing and years behind where they "want to be".

I never realized how dumb it was of me to care enough to help push hard on politicians to vote them in a real budget, until after I did it.

Rookie mistake. Unknown budgets subject to being stolen by other more popular pork projects work way better to keep waste down as much as it can with trillions in loan money available.
 
denverpilot said:
And go back to Continuous Resolutions without a budget, to keep them guessing and years behind where they "want to be".

I never realized how dumb it was of me to care enough to help push hard on politicians to vote them in a real budget, until after I did it.

Rookie mistake. Unknown budgets subject to being stolen by other more popular pork projects work way better to keep waste down as much as it can with trillions in loan money available.
Click to expand...

Regardless of the question. The answer is never more government and certainly never more taxes. A bunch of rich people running a bankrupt organization to their own personal advantage with other peoples money. :mad2:
 
The EAA medical guy has some details on the eaaforums site.
 
Wrench978 said:
Can someone explain why this is a bad thing? (Thats a serious request)

As someone who is currently trying to sort out possible OSA before I go for my medical, it sounds like not being grounded while I deal with it is a good thing, no?


is it just the fact that sleep apnea grounds a recreational pilot?
Click to expand...

Where does it end? This is just one more hoop to jump through, one more cost to bear, one more chink in the armor. There are thousands of pilots flying LSA out there that self certify. I'm betting plenty of them are OSA or could be classified as OSA. If they are going to crash and the cause will be lack of sleep, then why not remove the self-certification for LSA pilots? If OSA is a problem, we know that ADD/ADHD is a problem, how about if you have ever exhibited signs of stress?

What about your blood pressure? Today 135/95. Wait, hold on there, it's now 130/90. Maybe in 2020 it'll be 125/85, hell, lets settle it out at 120/80. If you have BP higher than that, you need a SI. So, you get a piece of paper every 12 months that goes back and allows 135/95 again. Are you actually physically safer as a pilot with a piece of paper that cost you $3500, even though your BP is the same as before!

Imagine for a minute that any of this crap were applied to drivers getting a state driver license. Do you think for one SECOND that the driving public would put up with any of it? I can drive a 16,000 lb motorhome, with a 8000 lb trailer down the freeway next to a bus full of kids. Maybe I have high BP, OSA, cataracts, and mild heart arrhythmia. Do the feds care about that? But a pilot needs all this medical crap? WTF?
 
Matthew said:
Here'sthe link to the new guidance:

https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=18156


>>>

What is the new guidance?

BMI alone will not disqualify a pilot or require an OSA evaluation. The risk for OSA will be determined by an integrated assessment of history, symptoms, and physical/clinical findings. OSA screening will only be done by the AME at the time of the physical examination using the American Academy of Sleep Medicine (AASM) guidance provided in the AME Guide. Pilots who are at risk for OSA will be issued a regular medical certificate and referred for an evaluation which may be done by any physician (including the AME), not just a sleep medicine specialist, following AASM guidelines. If an evaluation is required, a laboratory sleep study or home study will not be required unless the evaluating physician determines it is warranted. The pilot may continue flying during the evaluation periodand treatment, if indicated.. The airman will have 90 days (or longer under special circumstances) to accomplish this. The FAA may consider an extension in some cases. Pilots diagnosed with OSA and undergoing treatment may send documentation of effective treatment to the FAA to arrange for a Special Issuancemedical certificate to replace the regular medical certificate.

<<<
Click to expand...


Amazing, they actually listened. Sounds good, it addresses the problem with minimal cost and risk to certification. No reason not to report because it isn't going to cause a denial, just start the process to getting you treatment. If you already have treatment, provide proof of treatment and you are already golden.


The issue is a real issue, and getting treated is reported as 'life altering' in a positive manner by many getting treated.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Gee....maybe DOT should look into this for boat captains too. :yikes:
Click to expand...

They started long ago, truck drivers too. Resistance isn't futile on this one, resistance is downright stupid! You cost yourself a large percentage of potential quality of life out of the pride of believing "I don't have a problem! I don't need that crap, I'm stronger than all that."
 
Henning said:
They started long ago, truck drivers too. Resistance isn't futile on this one, resistance is downright stupid! You cost yourself a large percentage of potential quality of life out of the pride of believing "I don't have a problem! I don't need that crap, I'm stronger than all that."
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OK....I'm with you on that.

But, is regulation and all the bureaucracy and intrusion that goes with it needed for this?

Is this really a safety of flight issue that will improve the accident stats? I bet not. :wink2:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
OK....I'm with you on that.

But, is regulation and all the bureaucracy and intrusion that goes with it needed for this?

Is this really a safety of flight issue that will improve the accident stats? I bet not. :wink2:
Click to expand...

This is as unintrusive as it gets, and sadly yes, it is necessary because these stupid people who refuse to get treated are killing innocent bystanders when they fall asleep behind the wheel.
 
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If it were a safety issue, then all drivers should be mandated. I want every driver around me to be tested for OSA every 2 years before being issued a license to drive a 6 ton truck and trailer around the freeway. Train engineers, boat captains, drivers, pilots. It's only fair....
 
Henning said:
This is as unintrusive as it gets, and sadly yes, it is necessary because these stupid people who refuse to get treated are killing innocent bystanders when they fall asleep behind the wheel.
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really?...in airplanes?:yikes:

prove it. :rolleyes:

The Docs are out to lunch on this....there should be a risk analysis required, similar to what's done for every AD issued.
 
docmirror said:
If it were a safety issue, then all drivers should be mandated. I want every driver around me to be tested for OSA every 2 years before being issued a license to drive a 6 ton truck and trailer around the freeway. Train engineers, boat captains, drivers, pilots. It's only fair....
Click to expand...

Yes, it's happening industry wide in all commercial operations sectors. It is a significant problem the insurance industry has targeted. It is being implemented as best it can. The entire population is an incredible task unless you break it down into sectors. Since we already have sectors under more stringent controls, you start there because implementation is simpler. At the same time the infomercials are doing their bit on educating people. Eventually the social exposure from people using CPAP devices and the advertising reduces the stigma we assign them and hopefully you get the rest of the population to adopt the technology voluntarily.

If they linked OSA to ED, this problem wouldn't exist.:rofl:
 
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I fly an aircraft that weighs less than most cars. It moves at roughly car speed. It carries car kinetic energy. Why I need more medical supervision to fly it than someone who drives a car is beyond me. Especially when an overwhelming body of data shows unequivocally that it doesn't do a blind bit of good.
 
You'll stood there while they threw ADHD, DUI, and kidney stone sufferers under the bus. Now they are coming for you fatties and there is no one left who cares. Resistance to this one is funny, sorry despite what ladies media says fat is not OK, there is no such thing as healthy fat. And society is going to start making you pay for the extra weight you put on society. Sleep well buttercups.
 
steingar said:
I fly an aircraft that weighs less than most cars. It moves at roughly car speed. It carries car kinetic energy. Why I need more medical supervision to fly it than someone who drives a car is beyond me. Especially when an overwhelming body of data shows unequivocally that it doesn't do a blind bit of good.
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Irrelevant to the point at hand, and you have the option to operate a wide range of aircraft with no medical supervision whatsoever. If you man up, you can just ignore all the social rules, all you have to do is forego insurance. Remember, most all the rules exist with much input from the insurance industry.

This thread is about Sleep Apnea, not the existence of third class medicals, because it also affects Second and First class holders.
 
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Henning said:
Amazing, they actually listened. Sounds good, it addresses the problem with minimal cost and risk to certification. No reason not to report because it isn't going to cause a denial, just start the process to getting you treatment. If you already have treatment, provide proof of treatment and you are already golden.





The issue is a real issue, and getting treated is reported as 'life altering' in a positive manner by many getting treated.
Click to expand...


We've also had folks report that "the process" took 18 months. And they gave you a generous 3 months to deal with it. LOL. Perhaps they should re-word it, "Fly until we get around to approving or denying your Special Issuance" and put the onus on themselves to get it in gear. Problem is, I know that won't lead to better work, it'd just lead to more denials to shuffle the paperwork faster.

That's by far the majority of guys like Bruce's real value. He knows what mountain of paperwork and all the special things to say to get that mountain of paper off of a desk and filed away in the bureaucratic morass with the appropriate check boxes ticked.

I know someone who took a DVD (it wouldn't fit on a 650 MB CD) worth of data and a three inch high stack of papers and letters to Bruce, as requested because he knew what to ask for, and was issued same day, in office, for a worse medical condition. One that usually takes a year or so of back and forth.

The question isn't whether he would qualify. It's how long it would take him to gather the stupid paper and digital data if asked for it one piece at a time.

Anyway. Three months won't be enough unless you're hiring someone as organized or interested as Bruce. Many AMEs simply aren't that interested / don't have the time for the hoops jumping and dump it all back on the patient to figure out in drips and drabs with letters back and forth from OKC for months and months.
 
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