Turbo Arrow lands on golf course in Sacramento

AV8R_87

AV8R_87

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Feb 1, 2024
Messages
824
Location
NE USA
Display Name
Display name:
OC
No serious injuries, so it's a good landing.

www.kcra.com

Plane makes emergency landing at Haggin Oaks golf course in Sacramento, crashes into pro shop

Surveillance video shows the plane narrowly missed a golfer on a practice putting green.
www.kcra.com www.kcra.com

Accident Piper PA-28R-201T Turbo Arrow III N135DG, Sunday 4 August 2024

On August 4, 2024 about 1315 Pacific daylight time, a Piper PA-28R-201T, N135DG, was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Sacramento, California. The pilot susta...
asn.flightsafety.org
 
I used to rent a turbo arrow (different tail number). That was a fun airplane.
 
Wow he did a great job getting it slowed down and on the ground before stopped against the building.
Luckily there was no fire…keeping the gear up probably helped?
 
Gary Ward said:
Wow he did a great job getting it slowed down and on the ground before stopped against the building.
Luckily there was no fire…keeping the gear up probably helped?
Click to expand...
The gear was down until it collapsed early in the sequence.
 
The reporter in the news video says "and crews have been working to remove all the jet fuel", and at first I thought, what a maroon, jet fuel in an Arrow..then wait a minute, is it possible to mis-fuel an Arrow with Jet-A?
 
A story I heard is that pilots flying turbo-equipped aircraft into Mexico remove any turbo badges on their planes. Reason being that jet fuel is called "turbosina", and refuelers are tempted to put it into anything with a turbo badge. I have no reason to believe (at this point) that we have a case of mis-fueling here.
 
MFE said:
The reporter in the news video says "and crews have been working to remove all the jet fuel", and at first I thought, what a maroon, jet fuel in an Arrow..then wait a minute, is it possible to mis-fuel an Arrow with Jet-A?
Click to expand...
Possible? Of course, but more than likely a journalist goof up.
 
He is fortunate to survive to ol' "impossible turn". To be fair I'm unfamiliar with that airport to know what his options were.
 
MFE said:
The reporter in the news video says "and crews have been working to remove all the jet fuel", and at first I thought, what a maroon, jet fuel in an Arrow..then wait a minute, is it possible to mis-fuel an Arrow with Jet-A?
Click to expand...

I noticed that too but perhaps the reporter didn't realize that putt-putt airplane engines don't use jet fuel. ;)

BTW ... I believe you meant moron & not maroon ...
 
Great landing under the difficult circumstances. What is not in the report above, but is clear if you listen to the audio, is that he departed from 16 at intersection C, giving up about 4400' of runway. As a CFI, I tell my students to never do that. I am sure this fellow won't do it again either.
 
DesertNomad said:
Great landing under the difficult circumstances. What is not in the report above, but is clear if you listen to the audio, is that he departed from 16 at intersection C, giving up about 4400' of runway. As a CFI, I tell my students to never do that. I am sure this fellow won't do it again either.
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking into it. That was my initial reaction, how come he didn't have enough altitude to make it back, when departing from a runway that's almost 2 miles long. His climb rate was pretty low, I wonder if using the whole runway would've given him enough clues to abort the takeoff in time.
 
From where he stopped, he must’ve really needed to have his clubs re-gripped.
 
I used to own a Turbo Arrow. The thought of what I might do if my engine crapped out departing 20 at KSAC crossed my mind... pretty much every time I flew it. And that would be setting it down in Haggin Oaks.
 
There is a Piper service bulletin to remove the "Turbo" lettering. Probably not relevant in this case but it is something to be aware of when dealing with fuelers. There are many wonderful, helpful folks at airports but it only takes one confused soul to ruin the day...
 
AV8R_87 said:
Thanks for looking into it. That was my initial reaction, how come he didn't have enough altitude to make it back, when departing from a runway that's almost 2 miles long. His climb rate was pretty low, I wonder if using the whole runway would've given him enough clues to abort the takeoff in time.
Click to expand...

I think he would have still been in the air when it quit, but would have been able to make it back to airport property and possibly the runway. Never give up usable runway!
 
miainco said:
There is a Piper service bulletin to remove the "Turbo" lettering. Probably not relevant in this case but it is something to be aware of when dealing with fuelers. There are many wonderful, helpful folks at airports but it only takes one confused soul to ruin the day...
Click to expand...
Decades ago when I was a ramp rat, I would guess less than 5% of GA piston pilots would supervise the fueling of their aircraft (no self serve at my FBO). Not much higher percentage with turboprop pilots. Probably 40% of the bizjet fuelings were supervised.
 
Avgas in a turbine isn’t nearly as bad as Jet A in a piston….
 
Daleandee said:
I noticed that too but perhaps the reporter didn't realize that putt-putt airplane engines don't use jet fuel. ;)
Click to expand...
The FAA inspector didn't realise that a Cessna 182 uses avgas when I was working with them to get my overweight permit, so I think it's fair that the typical reporter would not be aware of the different fuel types.
 
Four? I say one, and that's my final offer!
 
One of the things that unnerves me a little bit (okay a lot) about the TSIO 360 engine, is that because it's turbo supercharged, it needs greater than sea level atmospheric manifold pressure to achieve full takeoff power. And not just full takeoff power, but normal cruise as well. My settings were 38" takeoff, and 34" for a 65% cruise. So what happens if the turbocharger craps out?

One time I flew out of Little River (KLLR) heading back to KSAC. About half an hour in to it, I started to hear a grinding noise coming from the cowling. I was pretty sure I knew what it was - which was the turbocharger eating itself. There is a procedure for a turbocharger failure, you revert to normal aspiration and lean accordingly. But, that means a drop from 34" to something less than 27" (3,000 foot MSL), and there are now restrictions on both the exhaust and compressor sides from the stalled vanes. I was worried about whether or not I would be able to make enough power to maintain level flight. And if you're familiar with the area, it's solid hills and trees. For miles.

I started breathing easier once I cleared the hills and was over flat land. I decided to continue to KSAC as everything seemed to be holding at the time, and I made it before anything catastrophic happened. The A&P pulled the turbocharger, which was coked pretty solidly, and said it was within seconds of seizing.
 
Single engine, the TSIO-360 is 'interesting' over mountains. Practicing for turbo failure is rather eye opening. You really, really don't want to be heavy. Hope you get a choice in what valley you end up in and that there is an airport in that valley. Chose routes and altitude somewhat carefully...
 
...and turbo supercharged differentiates from turbo normalized...which in the case of the TSIO-360 means 7.5:1 compression ratio for the -FB which I believe is in the Arrow. A turbo normalized engine can/will have a higher mechanical compression ratio.
 
A turbo normalized engine isn’t boosted over sea level atmospheric pressure. A turbo supercharged engine is. The designation does not mean it is mechanically supercharged.
 
miainco said:
Single engine, the TSIO-360 is 'interesting' over mountains. Practicing for turbo failure is rather eye opening. You really, really don't want to be heavy. Hope you get a choice in what valley you end up in and that there is an airport in that valley. Chose routes and altitude somewhat carefully...
Click to expand...
How exactly do you do that?
 
Sac Arrow said:
How exactly do you do that?
Click to expand...
Do what? practice turbo failure? pull the throttle back. Sure it's a guess about how it will perform with a real failure. Ya prolly want to pull manifold pressure below the current density altitude pressure. It's sorta like any engine failure practice, not perfect but ya get to practice figuring out whatchgonnado.
 
Intersection departure was cited as an issue in the Bonanza that went down just after departing rwy 24 at KISP last month. It may not have been causal, but it sure limited the pilot's options when the engine failed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top