Treat minor filiform corrosion

Nastynox, now we use Braycote.


That was back when I worked on Hawkers. Ever seen an airplane almost completely assembled with bolts? Horrible countersunk coin-slot headed bolts that are not cheap? The kind of airplane where you buy a bag of a 100 drill bits and easy-outs just to get the panels off and blow a couple thousand $ in new bolts to put panels back on..

I don't miss them. Thankfully there is a team here that love that airplane design.
 
Demonstrating you're a what? It's in your pictures. One picture shows the nice orange paint and another picture shows the abraded aluminum and paint, with scratches extending from the paint onto the aluminum, elongated fastener holes, scribe lines, along with pitting remaining, .
Your imagination run wild often? why would I make scribe lines removing corrosion?
that statement makes us all believe you do not understand the processes used. Best get real.
Glen wants to run one of these on your aircraft, would you allow him?
That aluminum in that disk is what is supposed to protect your aircraft.
These disks simply remove it.
You can see where I use them, to clean and polish the aluminum prior to welding as they were intended. Not to sand away the protection the manufacturer placed there.
Glen seems not to understand what the tools that he uses actually do.
 

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That was back when I worked on Hawkers. Ever seen an airplane almost completely assembled with bolts? Horrible countersunk coin-slot headed bolts that are not cheap? The kind of airplane where you buy a bag of a 100 drill bits and easy-outs just to get the panels off and blow a couple thousand $ in new bolts to put panels back on..

I don't miss them. Thankfully there is a team here that love that airplane design.
No, never had that pleasure. Sounds like fun ;( My brother flew/managed the C-29A test program.
 
That was back when I worked on Hawkers. Ever seen an airplane almost completely assembled with bolts? Horrible countersunk coin-slot headed bolts that are not cheap? The kind of airplane where you buy a bag of a 100 drill bits and easy-outs just to get the panels off and blow a couple thousand $ in new bolts to put panels back on..

I don't miss them. Thankfully there is a team here that love that airplane design.

They are British through and through then! I used to see an old one from time to time with the pure jet engines - music to my ears!
 
They are British through and through then! I used to see an old one from time to time with the pure jet engines - music to my ears!

They are neat to look at. Its the only airplane where need your whole damn toolbox just to R&R wheel & tire assembly (figuratively speaking). A great many things require special tools to do things that on other aircraft all you needs is standard wrenches, like a slide hammer that threads into the aileron hinge pins to remove the ailerons. You need about 5 guys to remove an elevator because they weigh about 200 pounds are very bulky. You physically remove the snap rings and seals from flight control pivot bearings to inspect and re-grease them at defined inspection intervals.

None of that applies to Cessna lol.
 
I still have my British Standard sockets from working on 748's. My fingers ache just thinking of doing burner wipes!
 
... why would I make scribe lines removing corrosion?
No one said you made scribe lines, but they are there, and they are right on the edge of the lap seam. They are stress risers where a crack is most likely to form, and be hidden by the upper skin. Why wouldn't you address them?
 
I still have my British Standard sockets from working on 748's. My fingers ache just thinking of doing burner wipes!
I had a Snap-on BS wrench set when I worked on Darts. Paid $75 for them, used them for four years and sold them for $75.
I still have a burner wipe tool, here somewhere.
 
They are neat to look at. Its the only airplane where need your whole damn toolbox just to R&R wheel & tire assembly (figuratively speaking). A great many things require special tools to do things that on other aircraft all you needs is standard wrenches, like a slide hammer that threads into the aileron hinge pins to remove the ailerons. You need about 5 guys to remove an elevator because they weigh about 200 pounds are very bulky. You physically remove the snap rings and seals from flight control pivot bearings to inspect and re-grease them at defined inspection intervals.

None of that applies to Cessna lol.
;)
DC-10 gear reteact actuator rod ends were required to have internal and external threads inspected for corrosion at lubrication (used to use Mastinox on those threads). How do you do that inspection without disassembly?
 
No one said you made scribe lines, but they are there, and they are right on the edge of the lap seam. They are stress risers where a crack is most likely to form, and be hidden by the upper skin. Why wouldn't you address them?
More BS bloviation.
 
So how does one treat minor filiform corrosion?
 
So how does one treat minor filiform corrosion?
Read the thread.
Glen wants to grind it out with an abrasive disk. I say remove the corrosion deposits with Alum-Prep and alodine the area. Most of the minor Filiform Corrosion is less than .001" deep. Why make it worse by exposing the base metal, Like Glen likes to do.
But Glen Swares that that .001" must be blended out but you can't use metal tools.

6 pages in a nut shell.
 
Here are some pictures from Today. I used a polishing disk like glen advises and cleaned up the edge of panel I'm discarding just so you can see what happens when these abrasives are used.
I started by cleaning the top side and didn't even grind out the corrosion pits, (as you can see) then the bottom side just enough to remove the scale.
Then measured the sheet thickness, This was .020" 2024-T3 Alclad.
Less than 10 seconds each side. not even enough to remove the pits.
 

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Read the thread.
Glen wants to grind it out with an abrasive disk. I say remove the corrosion deposits with Alum-Prep and alodine the area. Most of the minor Filiform Corrosion is less than .001" deep. Why make it worse by exposing the base metal, Like Glen likes to do.
But Glen Swares that that .001" must be blended out but you can't use metal tools.
6 pages in a nut shell.
Every SRM I've seen and AC 43.13-1B agree with me. You leave pitting stress risers on PSE/Primary Structure. That is unacceptable. How are you determining your corrosion to be less than 0.001?
 
Every SRM I've seen and AC 43.13-1B agree with me. You leave pitting stress risers on PSE/Primary Structure. That is unacceptable. How are you determining your corrosion to be less than 0.001?
Because I have eyes and am here to see it.. YOU? not so much.
 
Every SRM I've seen and AC 43.13-1B agree with me. You leave pitting stress risers on PSE/Primary Structure. That is unacceptable. How are you determining your corrosion to be less than 0.001?
Have you ever seen a Cessna Structural repair manual? I really doubt it.
And your disks don't leave scratches ??

Get real Glen, You advocate using abrasives, and they leave scratches. You can't have it both ways. did you see the pictures above? The disk is full of aluminum that should be left to protect the base metal. But OH no,, you want to sand that all away.

Remember your remark about the alodine turning a blue tint? Ever figure that out? Every one else did, we all know you sanded away the al-Clad, and alodined the base metal, and the different alloy turned a different color.

OBTW I do have a scratch gauge.
 
Every SRM I've seen and AC 43.13-1B agree with me. You leave pitting stress risers on PSE/Primary Structure. That is unacceptable. How are you determining your corrosion to be less than 0.001?
Unacceptable to who? Who makes these decisions in 43/91 did you forget? we don't have job cards to tell those who have no experience in this.

And for the umpteenth time why do you insist the 43-13 is the Bible here?
If you really are an A&P you should know Cessna has a good set of manuals.
But I guess you can't look them up on the internet.
If you really need to know so you can argue more, buy a Cessna 100 service manual and read Chapter 19, para 17.
When you do that you'll understand how screwed up your thinking is.
 
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He's gone from: what scratches, there's no scratches, you're seeing things, to: your discs scratch too. It was about the brush being abrasive, I guess he now agrees. Sheesh.
 
He's gone from: what scratches, there's no scratches, you're seeing things, to: your discs scratch too. It was about the brush being abrasive, I guess he now agrees. Sheesh.
Trying to rationalize your using abrasives in .020" material. ?

Or are you trying to say you can tell how deep any thing is by pictures.

Your whole theory falls apart when you couldn't even recognize filiform corrosion when it was plane as can be.
then didn't know why Aldine turns a different color when applied to a different alloy.

You lack of knowledge on the subject is amazing, specially when you don't know what manual to use on a Cessna.
Has anyone noticed he didn't even know what holds the glass in an instrument? but he can tell every thing about what I show in pictures?
yet he still can't identify who determines airworthiness in part 91 / 43.

So now he tries to divert attention like always, can't answer the question change the subject.
 
OBTW have you read the 100 service manual chapter 19 para 17?

NO?

You should, you'd learn a new word.
 
OBTW have you read the 100 service manual chapter 19 para 17?

NO?

You should, you'd learn a new word.

Um, a question. (adjusts helmet and goggles) I believe your 150 is a 1976 M model. Why are you quoting a 100 series manual that stops at the 1968 model year and not the actual 150 service manual applicable to your aircraft?

Also, the clips of the service manual that I provided specifically state that the instructions in the service manual SUPPLEMENTS those in FAR PART 43 (ie: AC43.13). Clip added below.

From 69-76 C150 MM:
upload_2017-4-15_10-26-51.png
 
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Um, a question. (adjusts helmet and goggles) I believe your 150 is a 1976 M model. Why are you quoting a 100 series manual that stops at the 1969 model year and not the actual 150 service manual applicable to your aircraft?

Also, the clips of the service manual that I provided specifically state that the instructions in the service manual SUPPLEMENTS those in FAR PART 43 (ie: AC43.13). Clip added below.

From 69-76 C150 MM:
View attachment 52804
When was your manual last updated,,that's those yellow pages in the front of the manual..
 

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When Cessna makes that statement about part 43, they do not mention AC 43,13. they are referring to Appendic A Major repairs. and then refer you back to them for additional information.
In your attachment there is no mention of any AC
 
Show the folks the full title of the manual. If you have one take a picture and post it.

OK, I'll bite. Note that it is not current, but it is the correct manual for a 1976 150M. I don't need a current one for the planes I look after.
upload_2017-4-15_15-3-44.png
 
When Cessna makes that statement about part 43, they do not mention AC 43,13. they are referring to Appendic A Major repairs. and then refer you back to them for additional information.
In your attachment there is no mention of any AC

Cessna only makes reference to part 43, not to any specific section or appendix. Maybe there is some language in part 43 that might pertain to AC43.13. Just a thought.
 
qh jiklp'
Cessna only makes reference to part 43, not to any specific section or appendix. Maybe there is some language in part 43 that might pertain to AC43.13. Just a thought.
I will ask you a question to provoke a thought.

What is the 43,13-1b? What does it apply to, and is it approved data. when you research these questions you know the answer to your own question. Start by reading the whole AC. "AC" what does that stand for?
 
(Q) Why doesn't Cessna mention the AC anywhere in the publications?

(A) they know their pubs take precedence.
 
OK, I'll bite. Note that it is not current, but it is the correct manual for a 1976 150M. I don't need a current one for the planes I look after.
View attachment 52813
The 100 service manual with updates is the same manual for all intents and purposes.
 
Doesn't matter, I don't believe it's copywrited,

Anything you write is copyrighted, whether or not you put the little (c) on it. However, defending it is a whole lot easier if it is registered with the copyright office and annotated (c). But copyright is automatic whenever you create a work.

Jim
 
Remember your remark about the alodine turning a blue tint? Ever figure that out? Every one else did, we all know you sanded away the al-Clad, and alodined the base metal, and the different alloy turned a different color.

OBTW I do have a scratch gauge.
Please repost where I made any comment about alodine turning blue.

Your scratch gauge, I'd like to see that. No middle finger pictures, though. Thanks
 
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Anything you write is copyrighted, whether or not you put the little (c) on it. However, defending it is a whole lot easier if it is registered with the copyright office and annotated (c). But copyright is automatic whenever you create a work.

Jim
Title 17 US Code, Chapter 1,
107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use 106 and106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.


Tom might find interesting, that he frequently violates copyright in these forums when he changes quotes:
106A
"any intentional distortion, mutilation, or other modification of that work which would be prejudicial to his or her honor or reputation, and any intentional distortion, mutilation, or modification of that work is a violation of that right,
 
qh jiklp'

I will ask you a question to provoke a thought.

What is the 43,13-1b? What does it apply to, and is it approved data. when you research these questions you know the answer to your own question. Start by reading the whole AC. "AC" what does that stand for?

So, the Cessna Service Manual basically only covers replacing and patching, where did you acquire the repair information you are using, since not from 43.13-1B?
 
From the corrosion & treatment thread:
"Remember the 100 manual only started in 68. prior to that they had no manuals for the 100 series."

Tom, you might want to actually read your fancy manual, especially that front page you posted. :)

upload_2017-4-16_8-50-20.png

Apparently Cessna made a 100 series maintenance manual from 1963 up to the 1968 model year. AND, they made a maintenance manual for the 100 series for their aircraft prior to 1963 as well! And they tell you that in plain English on the very first page!

Also from the corrosion & treatment thread:
Question - "So what did mechanics do prior to 1968?"

Tom - "We used our heads and did what we were taught in A&P school." :rolleyes:
 
From the corrosion & treatment thread:
"Remember the 100 manual only started in 68. prior to that they had no manuals for the 100 series."

Tom, you might want to actually read your fancy manual, especially that front page you posted. :)

View attachment 52816

Apparently Cessna made a 100 series maintenance manual from 1963 up to the 1968 model year. AND, they made a maintenance manual for the 100 series for their aircraft prior to 1963 as well! And they tell you that in plain English on the very first page!
Do you understand what revisions and up dates do?
 
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