Transporting dry ice what's the problem?

Hocky

Hocky

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Hocky
So in another thread I mentioned I was going to be bringing a cooler with dry ice with me. Two of the most important reasons: It stays cooler longer and you don't get all that water mess to get rid of when it sublimates. Also you can keep frozen stuff frozen. Then someone (I won't name names ;) ) jumped all over me and said it was even worse than bringing propane.

Why would it be a problem? I'm going to have good ventilation in the plane. Am I missing something?
 
Rumor has it in the old skydiving days the local airport hater would end up with a hole in their roof straight through to the cellar whenever they went on vacation. No object or remnants of an object were ever found. But I doubt that is why you shouldn't fly with dry ice. You got a farmer Mcnasty problem?:wink2:
 
Let us know how you make out.
 
Just keep in mind that CO2 is heavier than air and when exposed to moisture, is extremely corrosive. Without really good ventilation, one would likely have a small amount of metal eating carbonic acid forming in the cabin as the CO2 contacts moisture in the air. Just FYI, from a guy who works with pure CO2 daily. I wouldn't say it's a no go, but it's not without at least some risk. You're call.
 
The real question is - will dry ice freeze an adult beverage?
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Dont feed the trolls.
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If you are referring to me, that's not my intent. I've seen people pass out in confined spaces with CO2 present, because it replaces the air in the space. I've seen "wet" CO2 eat through thick steel pipe flanges in a short amount of time. Just pointing out facts, because he asked for some. I ain't berry thmart, but I happen to make a livin mess in with CO2, and thought I could lend a hand.
 
I know in the ice cooler air conditioners for planes, they absolutely forbid dry ice...

Good 'nuff for me....
 
The thing that would keep me from doing it would be constantly worrying about the cooler sticking shut. BOOM.

I'm less concerned about the CO2 levels rising enough to be a problem given that I have several vents allowing outside air in. It's not recirculated air... it's from outside and at a much, much higher mass flow rate than whatever the dry ice is off gassing. But that's a wag... I haven't done the math.
 
It's not strictly illegal in noncommercial Part 91 operations, but OkieFlyer's covered well the reasons why it's not a real good idea. Choose wisely.
 
Labcorp, Quest and the other sample haulers fly hundreds of bags with a dry-ice pack every day. They have limits in their SOPs on how many sample bags with dry-ice they are allowed to carry on a given flight, but the amounts are considerable.
The air in your cabin at altitude is very dry. Unlessy your planes interior is soaked with water, I would not be too worried about the small amount of additional CO2 created by a couple of pounds of dry-ice in a well vented cooler (I would drill a vent hole in the cooler to make sure it cant build up pressure from altitude changes and dry-ice gassing off).
 
Well, at 1-2% CO2 in the cabin you will start to experience toxicity symptoms. An ounce and a half of dry ice will make more than 20 liters of gaseous CO2. Freezer blocks would be a better choice and have a similar heat capacity although more weight. Freezer blocks represent no respiratory risk. I won't be carrying dry ice in my plane. Same goes for liquid nitrogen.
 
weilke said:
Labcorp, Quest and the other sample haulers fly hundreds of bags with a dry-ice pack every day. They have limits in their SOPs on how many sample bags with dry-ice they are allowed to carry on a given flight, but the amounts are considerable.
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I'm sure they also have FAA-approved containers in which to put them and special training for the crews.
 
It looks like CO2 corrosion is only a problem at higher pressures than would be encountered in normal use:

http://corrosion-in-rod-pumped-wells.wikispaces.com/Corrosion+Mechanisms+and+Causes

Generally, for sweet gas wells with a pH of less than 7 the CO2 partial pressure can be used to indicate if corrosion is occurring.
For example:

  • A CO2 partial pressure above 30 psi usually indicates corrosion
  • A CO2 partial pressure of 7 - 30 psi usually indicates corrosion may be occurring
  • A CO2 partial pressure below 7 psi is usually considered non-corrosive
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If hauling dry ice around in a cooler was a problem, there'd be sensational stories on the news followed by calls for tighter regulation. But you can go to Wal Mart and buy dry ice, apparently. Wall Mart. The people who shop at Wal Mart can use dry ice responsibly. That's... amazing.

The key precautions seem to be don't try to confine it, and don't haul a ton of it.
 
chemgeek said:
And it's probably not loaded into the cockpit.
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They used to fly 58 Barons, the thermos sample bags are in crates under a cargo net in the passenger compartment right behind the pilot.

Appended is the FAA advisory circular on dry ice and a copy of Quests awareness training on CO2 poisoning. As a part 91 operator, they did not have a FAA approved hazmat policy, but from interviews in the docket, their policy was not to fly with more than 105lbs of dry ice in the cabin (the baron crashed btw. because the trainee pilot feathered both props, not due to pilot incapacitation).

I personally would not be worried about a cooler with 5 or 10lbs of dry ice in a non-pressurized cabin (i.e. no recirculation fan) as long as it is vented. But that is just my personal opinion and I recommend that anyone who plans to take dry ice make their own judgement on whether it is safe to do so.
 

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Why are you planning on bringing all of those consumables anyway - they just kill your usefull load which I'm guessing you don't have that much of to begin with. If you really want to bring that stuff you need to pack it all up and weigh it and see where you stand. Ice, beer, food, beer, propane, beer, and the like are readily available on-site. Or you can be like me and just go hang out at the SOS Bros tent and not worry so much about eating/drinking at the campsite. :D Anyway, someone else posted already that Target is just across from North 40 and if you can bum a ride there's a Wal-Mart about a mile up HWY 41.

Go to the AirVenture website, that have a plan your trip page:
https://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/plan-your-eaa-airventure-trip

Read up and save yourself a lot of aggrevation.
 
tsts4 said:
Why are you planning on bringing all of those consumables anyway - they just kill your usefull load which I'm guessing you don't have that much of to begin with. If you really want to bring that stuff you need to pack it all up and weigh it and see where you stand. Ice, beer, food, beer, propane, beer, and the like are readily available on-site. Or you can be like me and just go hang out at the SOS Bros tent and not worry so much about eating/drinking at the campsite. :D Anyway, someone else posted already that Target is just across from North 40 and if you can bum a ride there's a Wal-Mart about a mile up HWY 41.

Go to the AirVenture website, that have a plan your trip page:
https://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/plan-your-eaa-airventure-trip

Read up and save yourself a lot of aggrevation.
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Clearly, he is planning on attending the HOPS Party on Wednesday night, where admission is a 6-pack of good beer from your home town.

It wouldn't be right to bring warm beer, doncha know. :goofy:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Clearly, he is planning on attending the HOPS Party on Wednesday night, where admission is a 6-pack of good beer from your home town.

It wouldn't be right to bring warm beer, doncha know. :goofy:
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Touché -- Why didn't I see the obvious?!
 
I'm not a student pilot, but I bring a case of wine to Oshkosh with me. Nothing gets opened until after the flight line shuts down at 8PM then you're welcome to come by for a glass.

Dry ice in a cooler isn't going to sublimate much for two reasons.

First it's insulation. The temperature within the cooler will limit the amount of sublimation.

Second, moisture. On a summer day and with stuff in the cooler with some moisture content, ice will form on your block of dry ice, further reducing it's ability to sublimate. Those of us who have experience with theatrical fog (well, it actually comes from my disco lighting days, we never used fog in any of the couple of dozen theatrical productions I did), you need to heat the water to keep the dry ice fog flowing.
 
I plan to take a cooler of food to Oshkosh for the week. I will use frozen bottles of water as the coolant for the trip. No melted ice water in the cooler and plenty to drink when I get there.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Clearly, he is planning on attending the HOPS Party on Wednesday night, where admission is a 6-pack of good beer from your home town.

It wouldn't be right to bring warm beer, doncha know. :goofy:
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What is this HOPS Party you speak of?
 
cgrab said:
I plan to take a cooler of food to Oshkosh for the week. I will use frozen bottles of water as the coolant for the trip. No melted ice water in the cooler and plenty to drink when I get there.
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Not a bad idea but my thought process was that bringing a load of dry ice in a cooler then just buying water there would be more efficient in terms of how much weight I'm having to haul. I only want to bring in supplies I cannot get there. Like REAL beer, decent wine and prime steaks.

Speaking of which what is the hottest camp stove I can get that can be used to properly sear steaks?

I've never camped before... :redface:
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Dont feed the trolls.
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I'm sure glad that someone else asked that question. I'd hate to be considered a troll. I had thought about using dry ice on occasion but never looked into it and never saw the warnings.
 
JOhnH said:
I'm sure glad that someone else asked that question. I'd hate to be considered a troll. I had thought about using dry ice on occasion but never looked into it and never saw the warnings.
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TheHulk is just upset with me for calling him out as a timid pilot and is now popping up in my threads trying to disrupt. Which ironically is the very definition of being a troll so the best policy is to just ignore him. This question I asked is very real and something I needed to know and others too. I have thought of using it for cooling purposes too as I'm sure many others have too.

The carbonic acid angle is something I hadn't thought of. How serious a concern is that though? There is not going to be a whole lot of moisture in the plane. Remember I'm flying VFR.
 
Hocky,
The best thing for a steak is a cast iron pan. I know it is heavy and you have to feed it allot of heat before you can use it but it will cook evenly and maintain the temperature while you cook instead of cooling off when the steak hits it and having to heat up again. I use a two burner military stove-http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?fid/399/tid/26723/ that way I can heat the skillet and boil water at the same time and it uses the same fuel as my plane.
 
I'm still on the fence

Posts so far

  • Can a solo student fly another student, How would they know?
  • Can I transport Propane to OSH
  • Can I transport Dry Ice to Osh
  • I can't seem to hit the centerline
  • Can a solo student fly to Osh


Each on its own is somewhat ok but all from the same poster def has a Pete Flemming Super Troll feel to it ESPECIALLY with the newly mentioned "fine wine" comment...


I can't hit centerline but want to fly to OshKosh?


I don't know. I think you might be a troll but I like you so I will stay and play.
I am waiting for your next post to be about why female pilots are dangerous or some other trump post, followed by the PF multiple name changes then a death spiral spewing comments about how all other pilots will bow to your superior skills, etc.


Maybe not but the vibe is similar.


That being said, I have flown with dry ice before in a cooler and had no issues.

Carry on.
 
I can vouch for the lack of decent wine (other than what you bring in) but you're wrong about the beer. It is Wisconsin after all and there are several venues that sell some of the very good local craft brew. You can get beer and hard liquor at the Walmart too as long as you hit there before 9PM.

Getting bottled (or brought in water) is advisable. The on-site water is from wells that are pretty metallic. Makes lousy coffee (coffee and wine are about the only food we bring in), I use an aeropress to make the coffee.

I don't know if you'll get any portable stove up to the good steak searing temperature. Even most regular gas grills suck badly at that. However, I might give the jet boil pan option a try. The jet boil certainly gets hot enough. It will go from unlit to boiling a quart of water in about 70 seconds.
 
Hocky said:
Not a bad idea but my thought process was that bringing a load of dry ice in a cooler then just buying water there would be more efficient in terms of how much weight I'm having to haul. I only want to bring in supplies I cannot get there. Like REAL beer, decent wine and prime steaks.

Speaking of which what is the hottest camp stove I can get that can be used to properly sear steaks?

I've never camped before... :redface:
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REAL beer? Where are you from?
 
Humans exhale about 200 ml of CO2 per breath. Times 12 breaths per minute times 60 minutes gives us 144,000 ml/hour. At about 2Kg/m^3 that should come to about .3 kg/hour or .7 pounds per hour. So, to match the CO2 output of a single person (which we all know is enough CO2 to kill us outright in a confined space like an airplane) you would have to have such a urine poor cooler that it burns through 15 pounds of dry ice per day.

Yea. I'm going to worry about it.:rolleyes:
 
for the steaks... Just bring a small cooking grate or grill and pick up a bag of charcoal while on site.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Humans exhale about 200 ml of CO2 per breath. Times 12 breaths per minute times 60 minutes gives us 144,000 ml/hour. At about 2Kg/m^3 that should come to about .3 kg/hour or .7 pounds per hour. So, to match the CO2 output of a single person (which we all know is enough CO2 to kill us outright in a confined space like an airplane) you would have to have such a urine poor cooler that it burns through 15 pounds of dry ice per day.

Yea. I'm going to worry about it.:rolleyes:
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And that doesn't include pulling the cabin air vents open and doing about three or four full cabin air changes an hour.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
And that doesn't include pulling the cabin air vents open and doing about three or four full cabin air changes an hour.

Jim
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You probably don't even need to do that. Most airplane cockpits aren't airtight and the cockpit is usually in a low pressure area. Air is being sucked out of the cockpit continually (from experimentation in the Navion, it enters via the tail cone). Remember your IFR training about what happens if you open alternate static (or smash some instrument) if your static system gets plugged.
 
Hocky said:
I've never camped before... :redface:
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Just curious, does the person you plan to come with you have any camping experience? If not, as somone who's camped all his life, get all of your gear together set all of it up and learn to use all of it before you come to OSH even if it's in your backyard. You do not want to be opening stuff and trying to figure out how it works for the first time after arrival. That's a recipe for a miserable experience. Come to OSH to enjoy the event, not to learn how to camp.
 
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arejay said:
for the steaks... Just bring a small cooking grate or grill and pick up a bag of charcoal while on site.
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You can't use wood or charcoal in the the aircraft camping areas, just in Camp Scholler. Near the aircraft it's white gas or propane only (or 100LL if you have a multi-fuel stove like cgrab :yes:)
 
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