Tower Closings?

A

Ateaist

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
400
Location
San Diego
Display Name
Display name:
Ateaist
Today CNN reported that Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood has warned of towers at smaller airports closing if sequestration takes effect on March 1. If you fly out of a towered airport, how would that affect you?

Early this morning I was out for some practice maneuvers. Coming back to KMYF (Montgomery Field) I entered the left pattern for 28L as number 4, with operations on 28R equally intense. If there was no one in the tower, this place would be an absolute circus. :yikes:

Link to CNN story here:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/politics/forced-cuts-transportation/index.html
 
Isn't it interesting how the politicians can turn a slight increase in this year's budget over last years' into a panic situation?
($3.553 trillion in 2013 vs. $3.538 trillion in 2012). Does the main stream media understand this? It's actually a decrease in the proposed increase---again. Forbes explains it.

Best,

Dave
==================================================

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...ng-cuts-wrought-by-the-devastating-sequester/
 
What this demonstrates is EVERYTHING worthwhile and necessary that government does can really be funded by 2-3% of the federal budget. The rest is just bloat the essential stuff rides upon!
 
When there is a tower on the field and the tower is closed, the field reverts to an untowered field and you self-announce on CTAF, which is usually the tower frequency.
 
Please take the politics over to Spin Zone.
 
Ateaist said:
Today CNN reported that Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood has warned of towers at smaller airports closing if sequestration takes effect on March 1. If you fly out of a towered airport, how would that affect you?

Early this morning I was out for some practice maneuvers. Coming back to KMYF (Montgomery Field) I entered the left pattern for 28L as number 4, with operations on 28R equally intense. If there was no one in the tower, this place would be an absolute circus. :yikes:

Link to CNN story here:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/22/politics/forced-cuts-transportation/index.html
Click to expand...
Closing the tower at MYF would be akin to cats and dogs living together.....
 
My home field doesn't really need a tower, frankly. I sure do like having them there, though, to get my clearance and open/close IFR flight plans for me.
 
AuntPeggy said:
When there is a tower on the field and the tower is closed, the field reverts to an untowered field and you self-announce on CTAF, which is usually the tower frequency.
Click to expand...
The issue that the OP is talking about if the airports like MYF that are crazy busy during the day....so busy between intense flight training, and corporate trafficthat you sometimes have to circle outside the D for 10 minutes just to establish comms with the tower.

Combine that with the fact that MYF is in a very narrow corridor between two different Class B surface areas and you have a potential disaster in the making....at least initially until the majority of folks realize that it is safer to go to SEE or SDM.
 
Weirdly, today in a conversation not even related to politics, we were wondering why this airport (KFMN) even has a tower.
 
LDJones said:
What this demonstrates is EVERYTHING worthwhile and necessary that government does can really be funded by 2-3% of the federal budget. The rest is just bloat the essential stuff rides upon!
Click to expand...
Brilliant! Post of the day! :thumbsup:
 
LDJones said:
What this demonstrates is EVERYTHING worthwhile and necessary that government does can really be funded by 2-3% of the federal budget. The rest is just bloat the essential stuff rides upon!
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. It means that the stuff people are willing to talk about is small.

No one is talking about furloughing the Army, for instance. Just the civilians.

Most of the Federal budget is not discretionary, and it's excluded from the conversation.

As for the "smaller increase," when the cost of doing just about everything goes up by 3% annually, anything less than a 3% increase really IS a decrease. At least in the very real sense that you can do less with it than you could last year.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Isn't it interesting how the politicians can turn a slight increase in this year's budget over last years' into a panic situation?
($3.553 trillion in 2013 vs. $3.538 trillion in 2012). Does the main stream media understand this? It's actually a decrease in the proposed increase---again. Forbes explains it.

Best,

Dave
==================================================

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...ng-cuts-wrought-by-the-devastating-sequester/
Click to expand...
Trying to stay out of the political side as I do not participate in the Spin Zone, but the issue is how the federal budget is set up and the fact that the cut is happening mid-year. Most federal agencies were operating under the CR expecting Congress and POTUS to work something out, but now that this is occuring mid fiscal year, the impact of any reduction is magnified.

We just had an admiral onboard for lunch today that explained the sequestration budget impact fairly well. The Navy spends about $1 billion per month on operations. That means that our expected cost of operation is about $6 billion for the fiscal year April-Sep. The Navy's share of the sequestration cuts amounts to about $4billion....so basically, if the cuts kick in starting in April, we will only have $2Billion available to conduct $6billion worth of operations. And because of the way the money works, we can't take from things like R&D projects, pay or retiree benefits. The cuts have to come from the day to day operations budget. Very little pork will be touched by the reductions.

I suspect the FAA and other Federal Agencies are in similar predicaments.
 
The "budget" is irrelevant. The real issue is Appropriations. No funds are allocated by the budget. Only an Appropriation disburses funds.
 
Meh. Hood threatens towers, the other cabinet hacks are threatening whatever they represent. I'm sure the NPS is saying they don't have enough money to take over air museums, whatever.
 
Here's the list of possible tower closures released earlier today by the FAA:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf

Not for the first time, I fail to grasp the agency's logic in determining the closures. Double Eagle II (AEG) is the busiest contract tower in New Mexico, thanks to a large volume of student and military traffic, with my home field of SAF close behind. Santa Fe also has commercial service, albeit limited to about a dozen operations per day.

On the flip side, Lea Co. Regional (HOB ) is near the bottom of the nationwide list of contract facilities in traffic volume. ROW is somewhere in the middle.

Everskyward said:
Weirdly, today in a conversation not even related to politics, we were wondering why this airport (KFMN) even has a tower.
Click to expand...

I agree, no clue why Four Corners Regional isn't on this list, though if I had to guess it may be because there isn't another towered airport in the area for approx. 150 miles.
 
Last edited:
ClimbnSink said:
Meh. Hood threatens towers, the other cabinet hacks are threatening whatever they represent. I'm sure the NPS is saying they don't have enough money to take over air museums, whatever.
Click to expand...

NPS has already said that it'll close parks, Smithsonian has put access to the National Zoo on the list.
 
i think it would generally be great. i'd immediately suggest that our glider club shift operations to Mid Continent since it is super close to my house.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I'm sure the NPS is saying they don't have enough money to take over air museums, whatever.
Click to expand...
Funny you say that...there is a thread on the sequester over at the WIX Warbird Information Exchange and all they seem to care about is that the Navy and Air Force museums may have to the put some if their warbird restorations in hold....

I am a warbird fan myself, but museum aircraft are the last thing I am worrying about when we don't have the money to fix the ships and planes that are in current commission, not to mention that DoD civilians are basically looking at a 20% pay cut for the rest of the year due to furloughs.
 
wsuffa said:
NPS has already said that it'll close parks, Smithsonian has put access to the National Zoo on the list.
Click to expand...

Which is a load of crap, those things can be run profitably, gov always burns the publics happy stuff first.
 
The airports on the closure list with which I am familiar do not in any way need a tower. My home field is among them. With only one exception, the towers would not be overly missed. A very good idea on the FAA's part, and they could easily make it permanent.
 
flightwriter said:
Here's the list of possible tower closures released earlier today by the FAA:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf

Not for the first time, I fail to grasp the agency's logic in determining the closures. Double Eagle II (AEG) is the busiest contract tower in New Mexico, thanks to a large volume of student and military traffic, with my home field of SAF close behind. Santa Fe also has commercial service, albeit limited to about a dozen operations per day.

On the flip side, Lea Co. Regional (HOB ) is near the bottom of the nationwide list of contract facilities in traffic volume. ROW is somewhere in the middle.



I agree, no clue why Four Corners Regional isn't on this list, though if I had to guess it may be because there isn't another towered airport in the area for approx. 150 miles.
Click to expand...

There is a very real danger here. If these towers are closed and operations continue without any problems it will demonstrate that these towers are not needed.
 
Everskyward said:
Weirdly, today in a conversation not even related to politics, we were wondering why this airport (KFMN) even has a tower.
Click to expand...

Been there, and I agree!

Possible Michigan closings
ARB Ann Arbor Municipal Ann Arbor MI
BTL W.K. Kellogg Battle Creek MI
DET Coleman A. Young Municipal Detroit MI
JXN Jackson County-Reynolds Field Jackson MI
MKG Muskegon County Muskegon MI
SAW Sawyer International Marquette MI
Click to expand...

There's really no need for a tower at any of these places. As long as they keep the ILS at SAW open, I'm OK with this.
 
Last edited:
I was trying to stay factual. The Forbes article did, of course, have some opinions in it. As far as agencies spending in terms of thinking Congress and the Administration would get things worked out, and now having to cut in a shorter period of time....uh...seems folks that did that may have misjudged (g).

Best,

Dave
 
If you understand sequestration, you'd understand some of the panic. There's no way that the FAA can decide to just shutdown one program to save money for another. Second, be it federal employees or contractors, they also are predisposed against doing nothing.

Unlike the 536 jackasses up on capitol hill right now, a federal employee faces severe criminal penalty (anti-deficiency act) for overspending his allocated funds. Where as Congress can get away doing nothing, the real workers have to make plans so as not to end up breaking the law.

The practical side of the federal government is going to continue to get further log jammed unless congress bellies up and passes at least a longer term continuing resolution if not a real budget authorization.
 
obviously no difference between FAA & Contract. We've known all along that FTG is a target - contract, very few operations. But I'm really surprised at BJC. A great deal of training and biz traffic. Neither FTG nor BJC has scheduled traffic. On the other hand, APA doesn't have scheduled traffic so why isn't it on the hit list?

Oh look - Santa Monica. Another sly reason to justify shutting down the airport?
 
Last edited:
Is it FAA vs Contracted towers?
Because the list of airport tower closures doesn't make sense for the ones they have listed for Florida.

KCRG - Lots of training flights and at least ten times busier than KJAX.
KHWO - Another very busy training field.
KISM - Very busy airport just outside of Disney World with lots of training.
KLAL - Other than Sun 'n Fun I don't really see a need for a tower here.
KOCF - Tumble weeds don't need a clearance to cross this runway.
KORL - Just as busy as KMCO with all it's training flights.
KSGJ - No tower required here, let Northrop Grumman pay the bill.
KSPG - No tower required here at any time throughout the year.
KTIX - Lots of training flights.
KVQQ - A tower at this airport is definitely a waste of taxpayer money.

Towers that could be closed with no major loss:
KJAX
KDAB
KMLB
KEYW
 
flav8r said:
Is it FAA vs Contracted towers?
Because the list of airport tower closures doesn't make sense for the ones they have listed for Florida.

KCRG - Lots of training flights and at least ten times busier than KJAX.
KHWO - Another very busy training field.
KISM - Very busy airport just outside of Disney World with lots of training.
KLAL - Other than Sun 'n Fun I don't really see a need for a tower here.
KOCF - Tumble weeds don't need a clearance to cross this runway.
KORL - Just as busy as KMCO with all it's training flights.
KSGJ - No tower required here, let Northrop Grumman pay the bill.
KSPG - No tower required here at any time throughout the year.
KTIX - Lots of training flights.
KVQQ - A tower at this airport is definitely a waste of taxpayer money.

Towers that could be closed with no major loss:
KJAX
KDAB
KMLB
KEYW
Click to expand...

When I flew in JAX airspace there was need for a tower. It was pretty busy.
 
flav8r said:
Is it FAA vs Contracted towers?
Click to expand...

There are FAA towers on the list. Most of the listed towers are contract towers because most of the low traffic towers are contract towers.

Because the list of airport tower closures doesn't make sense for the ones they have listed for Florida.

KCRG - Lots of training flights and at least ten times busier than KJAX.
KHWO - Another very busy training field.
KISM - Very busy airport just outside of Disney World with lots of training.
KLAL - Other than Sun 'n Fun I don't really see a need for a tower here.
KOCF - Tumble weeds don't need a clearance to cross this runway.
KORL - Just as busy as KMCO with all it's training flights.
KSGJ - No tower required here, let Northrop Grumman pay the bill.
KSPG - No tower required here at any time throughout the year.
KTIX - Lots of training flights.
KVQQ - A tower at this airport is definitely a waste of taxpayer money.

Towers that could be closed with no major loss:
KJAX
KDAB
KMLB
KEYW
Click to expand...


Other than AirVenture there's no need for a tower at KOSH, it's also on the list.
 
It's not just the class Ds that will be affected. My brother works ABI class C and was told to expect 11 day furloughs, a freeze on leave, and a reduction of hours including no more 24 hr ops. There are plenty of small towers that could be closed but places like MYF or CRG would be a mad house if they went to uncontrolled.
 
the busiest patterns that i've been in or observed would have been hindered not helped by the existence of a tower.
 
I see FTY my home airport is on the list, even though it is not as busy at it once was, it is still just a few miles from ATL.;) I think the need for a tower here is more about departures under the class B and so close to ATL. But, I am sure we can use FSS for clearances, it will just be slower.:mad2:
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
Quite a few Maryland/Virginia airports on that list!
Click to expand...

The two I am familiar with, ESN (Easton,MD) and HEF (located in Manassas,VA but shows up under Washington,DC in the databases) are reasonably busy but could probably function without a tower.

Now at HEF, having the tower is really convenient as it makes SFRA departures rather transparent, with the parallel runways it wouldn't be too hard to keep track of everyone. ESN otoh has no sight-lines to some of the runway ends, without mandatory radio use, that place could get interesting without the tower. Then again, they did function without a tower for the longest time and with traffic counts down, they may do just fine.
 
weilke said:
The two I am familiar with, ESN (Easton,MD) and HEF (located in Manassas,VA but shows up under Washington,DC in the databases) are reasonably busy but could probably function without a tower.

Now at HEF, having the tower is really convenient as it makes SFRA departures rather transparent, with the parallel runways it wouldn't be too hard to keep track of everyone. ESN otoh has no sight-lines to some of the runway ends, without mandatory radio use, that place could get interesting without the tower. Then again, they did function without a tower for the longest time and with traffic counts down, they may do just fine.
Click to expand...

I've gone in and out of ESN a bunch, and several times I've been glad there's a tower to sort things out for us. It can get really busy. Sometimes it can be sleepy, but there's usually someone else there.

I've been out at Ann Arbor ARB twice now, and it doesn't seem like it needs a tower. It has two intersecting runways, but the one is grass, so it's not all that frequently used, from what I understand.

Though I have to say...that list is really really long.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The Navy spends about $1 billion per month on operations. That means that our expected cost of operation is about $6 billion for the fiscal year April-Sep.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised the fiscal year only has 6 months. No wonder we're running out of money.:D
 
This was passed in 2011 yet no one thought to prepare in case it truly happened and yet we wonder why things are so screwed up.

Really good management at work here.
 
EdFred said:
When I flew in JAX airspace there was need for a tower. It was pretty busy.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the actual tower at KJAX or ARTCC ZJX?

I work out of the Jacksonville airport and even at the busiest time of day there isn't more than a couple of planes landing/taking off from there per hour.

Jacksonville Center ZJX on the other hand is extremely busy because they handle all of the traffic transitioning through Northern Florida.


On a completely different side note: Airnav.com does indicate the amount of air traffic a particular airport sees per day.

For example: according to Airnav.com KJAX has an average of 253 flight ops per day as compared to KCRG which has 435.
 
EppyGA said:
This was passed in 2011 yet no one thought to prepare in case it truly happened and yet we wonder why things are so screwed up.

Really good management at work here.
Click to expand...

I think that most folks had a bit more faith in Congress to figure something out to avoid it and not go on recess and just stomp around pointing fingers at each other.. Yes, silly I know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top