Too Much YouTube

Anymouse said:
So, I get that saying "That checks" is not the thing to say.

Can I say "Fat chicks" instead?
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Yes, but then you have to laugh maniacally.

Not too long ago I had traffic called out to me by ATC and for some reason contracted verbal diarrhea: "Yep, have the traffic on my ADSB, 77R." The other aircraft, when I was called out to him replied, "Got him on the Addsbee" as if it were a word. I do believe he was doing that for my benefit. :cool:
 
midlifeflyer said:
So yesterday, I'm departing from RDU. I'm handed off to Approach and report in, "one two hundred climbing two thousand five hundred." They were pretty busy and I was level at 2500 by the time I got the return call. "Radar contact. 4 miles from Raleigh Durham two thousand five hundred.

"Position checks" popped into my head :eek:. Never made it to my lips.:) But it was scary to think watching pilots on YouTube can infiltrate your head that way.:loco:



:stirpot:
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I've watched my share of youtube aviation videos, but I don't know what you are talking about. Never heard of the phrase "position checks" either.
 
In all honesty... you guys get your panties in a wad over the most irrelevant things in aviation.
On top of that, I promise I can pick out a 300 hour PP on the radio just by cadence, regardless of exact terminology.
Airline guys don’t give a crap about that stuff.
 
Kritchlow said:
In all honesty... you guys get your panties in a wad over the most irrelevant things in aviation.
On top of that, I promise I can pick out a 300 hour PP on the radio just by cadence, regardless of exact terminology.
Airline guys don’t give a crap about that stuff.
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Yup, you could pick me out easy, but I have moments of radio brilliance and in reality don't really care, just trying to get the message across.
 
Controllers don't need to hear "position checks" after we give you your position. What you DON"T hear after pilots say "position checks" is the controller saying either under his breath, thinking to himself, or to nobody in particular without keying the transmit switch is:

"I KNOW the position checks you dumbass. Other than turning on your transponder or pushing the ident button, I don't need your help in radar identification."
 
Timbeck2 said:
Controllers don't need to hear "position checks" after we give you your position. What you DON"T hear after pilots say "position checks" is the controller saying either under his breath, thinking to himself, or to nobody in particular without keying the transmit switch is:

"I KNOW the position checks you dumbass. Other than turning on your transponder or pushing the ident button, I don't need your help in radar identification."
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And when we hear “radar contact xxx miles north of xxx”, we say the same thing. We also know where we are.
 
Kritchlow said:
In all honesty... you guys get your panties in a wad over the most irrelevant things in aviation.
On top of that, I promise I can pick out a 300 hour PP on the radio just by cadence, regardless of exact terminology.
Airline guys don’t give a crap about that stuff.
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Lol so true (regarding everyone getting their panties in a wad here)
 
Timbeck2 said:
Controllers don't need to hear "position checks" after we give you your position. What you DON"T hear after pilots say "position checks" is the controller saying either under his breath, thinking to himself, or to nobody in particular without keying the transmit switch is:

"I KNOW the position checks you dumbass. Other than turning on your transponder or pushing the ident button, I don't need your help in radar identification."
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Dang it! I KNEW controllers were always calling me dumbass under their breadth.
 
Kritchlow said:
In all honesty... you guys get your panties in a wad over the most irrelevant things in aviation.
On top of that, I promise I can pick out a 300 hour PP on the radio just by cadence, regardless of exact terminology.
Airline guys don’t give a crap about that stuff.
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You should read the IMC/actual thread. Mental masturbation as R&W would say.
 
Some of these guys saying others have their panties in a wad seem to have their panties in a wad.... just sayin'. Position checks.
 
Timbeck2 said:
The difference is in that case, controllers HAVE to give you your position. ;)
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Why?? What good does it do without confirmation from the other side??
I mean I get that it’s the rules and everything, but without a response it’s useless.
 
RDUPilot said:
So lets start the list of annoying phrases all over again...
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Personally I kinda like a few that drive other people crazy. A few less esoteric:
"Initial for the overhead"
"Request carrier"
;)

Nauga,
and the tumbleweed traffic
 
Kritchlow said:
Why?? What good does it do without confirmation from the other side??
I mean I get that it’s the rules and everything, but without a response it’s useless.
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Yes, because its the rules but it gives pilots the opportunity to say, "That's not me." which no controller I've ever met has heard.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Yes, because its the rules but it gives pilots the opportunity to say, "That's not me." which no controller I've ever met has heard.
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I have said it once. A new voice came up on the frequency to verify my correct position. After that the original voice came back on and alluded to having a bad day training. Made me laugh a little and reminded me of the first time I ever had a student with me as a new cfi. Yeah... that guy flew with me exactly once.
 
Kritchlow said:
Why?? What good does it do without confirmation from the other side??
I mean I get that it’s the rules and everything, but without a response it’s useless.
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Why do they give you the position report? So you can confirm it. You can confirm it by not saying something to the effect of ‘uh, you better check on that dude, I think you may think I’m the wrong target.’ Saying nothing is your concurrence that you agree that the position he gave you is in fact where you are at.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Yes, because its the rules but it gives pilots the opportunity to say, "That's not me." which no controller I've ever met has heard.
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Oh BS. So the absence of a response is confirmation. Than why do we read back clearances if we understand them? The whole thing is a system of checks & balances. I’m not saying the crew should say “position checks” or the like, just rather it’s not wrong to do so.
 
luvflyin said:
Why do they give you the position report? So you can confirm it. You can confirm it by not saying something to the effect of ‘uh, you better check on that dude, I think you may think I’m the wrong target.’ Saying nothing is your concurrence that you agree that the position he gave you is in fact where you are at.
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I hear descend to FL230 several times a day, but I still need to acknowledge it. I do understand that’s a bit different, but it is the same concept.
 
Kritchlow said:
Oh BS. So the absence of a response is confirmation. Than why do we read back clearances if we understand them? The whole thing is a system of checks & balances. I’m not saying the crew should say “position checks” or the like, just rather it’s not wrong to do so.
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I never said it was wrong to do so. I said controllers don't care if you do.
 
Kritchlow said:
I hear descend to FL230 several times a day, but I still need to acknowledge it. I do understand that’s a bit different, but it is the same concept.
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Yeah. I hear ya. I think it’s more than just a little bit different though. At the end of the day I don’t think I would advocate for ‘concurrence of position’ reports to become mandatory though. I do however respect the reasons why many pilots give them anyway. I can say in my years as a controller a position checks report has never caused me any grief whatsoever.
 
The difference is between an instruction or clearance vs a statement by ATC. The first two require a bare minimum of acknowledgment (some cases a read back) on the ATC end. Radar contact with a position requires nothing. If you want to throw in “position checks” fine, just realize ATC doesn’t care.
 
Velocity173 said:
The difference is between an instruction or clearance vs a statement by ATC. The first two require a bare minimum of acknowledgment (some cases a read back) on the ATC end. Radar contact with a position requires nothing. If you want to throw in “position checks” fine, just realize ATC doesn’t care.
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I do realize that, and I don’t usually say it myself (mainly because I generally fly out of large airports).
My point was it’s not wrong, and the basis of this thread is useless verbiage. “With you” and the like serve no purpose. ATITP and position checks, may not be agreeable to most, but there is some purpose. I do understand the reasons not to do either.

I also understand “good morning” while checking in at FL350 is not required, but hey...
 
PaulS said:
Ok, now I'm confused.
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It's about the speaker needing to say something whether or not the listener needs to hear it, and then justifying it ;) Add to that an aviation readback habit, and we get a lot of nonessential communication we think has value.

That's not a flame on anyone. It's kind of the way we are built. Silence may be golden but it's hard to do.

But I am waiting to hear in response to,
"4 miles from FAFIX. Fly heading 230. Maintain 3000 until established. Cleared for the [Approach]"​
The response
"Position checks. 230, 3000 until established..."​

Why not say it if the confirmation of position is important? There are a few differences. But I think the biggest is we're saying something to fill the void, so we don't feel the need to.
 
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So page 3 before this thread is becoming a
giphy.gif


Come on PoA, what is taking us so long... :D
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's about the speaker needing to say something whether or not the listener needs to hear it, and then justifying it ;) Add to that an aviation readback habit, and we get a lot of nonessential communication we think has value.

That's not a flame on anyone. It's kind of the way we are built. Silence may be golden but it's hard to do.

But I am waiting to hear in response to,
"4 miles from FAFIX. Fly heading 230. Maintain 3000 until established. Cleared for the [Approach]"​
The response
"Position checks. 230, 3000 until established..."​

Why not say it if the confirmation of position is important? There are a few differences. But I think the biggest is we're saying something to fill the void, so we don't feel the need to.
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Uh Oh. You may have started something. Anyway, different situation. Airplane is already identified and correlated to the right target. The position from the FAF is just a nice thing to give the pilot when giving the Approach Clearance to help with his situational awareness. Now I know we all know WTF(where, not what) we are nowadays what with RNAV, GPS, Ipads, foreflight and all the clones, but it hasn't always been like that. There was a time when getting vectored you were giving up some of your situational awarness to the controller. Yeah, you may have had DME, even that was new gucci, space age stuff at one time. You could maybe even have two, yes, count em, TWO VOR's and maybe there was a VOR nearby that you could be cross checking some Radials on to have somewhat of an idea where you were. Knowing just about how far you are the FAF when you get your Clearance is kinda a nice thing to know, and that is why it is given.
 
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Kritchlow said:
In all honesty... you guys get your panties in a wad over the most irrelevant things in aviation.
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Bingo. I quit worrying about that stuff when on here I saw @Radar Contact and his fiancée say 'with you' when flying his plane and they're controllers themselves. That made me realize most controllers don't even care and don't think a thing about it. It's all us pilots that are anal about this stuff.

The one thing that does really bug me though is not a phrase but when somebody is making a position report in the pattern or the like and they take a minute to give it. They need to make it short and sweet. I've had that happen a lot lately, especially with some certain students at a certain flight school around the FFC and CCO area here in Atlanta. :)
 
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