Today's Stock Market

[Lawreston]

From NBC News: (MSNBC)

"The Dow Jones Industrial Average soared 135.54 points to finish at 153,26.60, logging a three-day win streak, boosted by IBM and Microsoft."

- - - and with that, we're all probably extremely wealthy.

HR

 

[kyleb]

From NBC News: (MSNBC)

"The Dow Jones Industrial Average soared 135.54 points to finish at 153,26.60, logging a three-day win streak, boosted by IBM and Microsoft."

- - - and with that, we're all probably extremely wealthy.

HR

Missed a decimal place, huh...

One thing that gripes me about end of day financial reporting is that they try to provide a pat answer for everything:

"The Dow was up 6 points today on lower oil prices." Um, 6 points on a basis of 15,000 is 4/100 of a percent. It isn't significant. And attributing a move of that magnitude to one factor is ridiculous. Not sure why the media feels compelled to do that.

 

[BillTIZ]

From NBC News: (MSNBC)

"The Dow Jones Industrial Average soared 135.54 points to finish at 153,26.60, logging a three-day win streak, boosted by IBM and Microsoft."

- - - and with that, we're all probably extremely wealthy.

HR

Nah, just making up the downturn in the market last week based on the "threat off war". It's a roller coaster ride.

 

[NoHeat]

Not sure why the media feels compelled to do that.

Because it would get old if every day they said that the market fluctuated mostly randomly today as various buyers and sellers randomly did different things.

 

[frfly172]

Fun to watch,harder to play and keep your mind,money.

 

[eman1200]

Because it would get old if every day they said that the market fluctuated mostly randomly today as various buyers and sellers randomly did different things.

 

[flyingron]

Read the book "Fooled by Randomness." A bunch of guys with about the same accuracy of reporters giving initial analysis of airplane crashes try to explain short term market behavior.

 

[Geico266]

The stock market today is a fool's game for the individual investor.

 

[Dr. O]

Playing the market is a fools game for fools. Hitting it big in the market has the same odds as hitting the lottery.

BUT, used with some care long term stock investment in solid companies is a good method of preserving your capital.

 

[airguy]

Playing the market is a fools game for fools. Hitting it big in the market has the same odds as hitting the lottery.

BUT, used with some care long term stock investment in solid companies is a good method of preserving your capital.

Without serious competent professional advise, I would have to agree. I enjoy the heck out of daytrading, I do a lot of it - but over the last 3 years I think I've made about 3% total return (been up and down 40%+ many times). I treat it like Vegas gambling, it's fun and I'm not using the mortgage payment for it. If I can break even or come close to it, it's good entertainment. Certainly not for long-term investment though, I've got a CPA that handles that for me.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I've lived off the stock market for the last seven years, except for 2008 and a part of 2009, when I lived off my cash reserves. I don't consider it a gamble, a game, nor do I think of myself as a fool for doing so. That said, I have to agree that I often times read the daily financial reports and think WTF.

 

[JOhnH]

The stock market today is a fool's game for the individual investor.

That may be true, but it is sort of like Democracy in the following quote:

No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

How else are you going to keep up with inflation? Commodities can lose value. Cash falls behind every second inflation exists, unless it is earning interest, in which case it falls behind slower.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

That may be true, but it is sort of like Democracy in the following quote:



How else are you going to keep up with inflation? Commodities can lose value. Cash falls behind every second inflation exists, unless it is earning interest, in which case it falls behind slower.

This assumes you can keep up in a rigged game. You can only keep what they let you.

Same energy and effort can yield better returns safer in collectable cars, coins, art, bottles and host of other things. Even real estate does well the old fashion way where you own it,manage it, rent it and then sell it. You can even flip homes today but you cannot bank on it automatically going up to make your deal. Even farming will net a pretty good return if you do attempt to do the get rich quick fiasco.

For offsetting wild gains or help income shifting this year to the future you can use wildcat drilling oil/gas wells if you can find share to buy in or buying live stock shares feed them incur all the costs this year and yield the revenues /profits if any next year.

 

[olasek]

Same energy and effort can yield better returns safer in collectable cars,

Disagree strongly, this is a very unpredictable market, there could be large swings in prices depending on current trends, fashions, moods, etc. Unless you are in this market because you simply like cars, like what you purchase, but counting it as "investment" may not pan out unless you are in it for a very long term, but then regular stocks market works well too if you are a long term investor. Art market can be equally tricky and unreliable.

 

[Old Geek]

Like an airplane is a great investment....

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

when I talk about investing the minimum time is 5 years-?. Collectables go down faster and deeper than the markets but they grow faster and higher than the market so they are more volatile but when you invest in a car, art, Tiffany lamp or a coin you do not think you can run down to cash it in to pay for your first months of retirement so you automatically are thinking more strategically...at least that is my assumption.

Disagree strongly, this is a very unpredictable market, there could be large swings in prices depending on current trends, fashions, moods, etc. Unless you are in this market because you simply like cars, like what you purchase, but counting it as "investment" may not pan out unless you are in it for a very long term, but then regular stocks market works well too if you are a long term investor. Art market can be equally tricky and unreliable.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Like an airplane is a great investment....

One thing is for sure about airplanes that is that your royalties or dividends are absolutely known.

I have no complaints about my ROI on aviation. If I walk away tomorrow I have friends and memories that I will hold dear forever.

 

[olasek]

so you automatically are thinking more strategically...at least that is my assumption.

Yes, but even strategic thinking will not spare your from some items going down and never recover their original prices. Frankly stock market is much more predictable in its down/up trends (which at least have some macro-economics understandable contexts) than art or antique or any other specialized market.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The stock market today is a fool's game for the individual investor.

Depends. If the individual investor does his research and due diligence there is money to be made.

I've done quite well in the market.

As Kenny Rogers once sang "You got to know when to hold 'emhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_in_poker#Call, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away, know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table,
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done."

 

[denverpilot]

Someone mentioned they're doing 3% day-trading. Is that before or after fees?

Sadly, while definitely fun and interesting, that's not a very good number. A low-fee S&P 500 index fund usually matches that right now.

Not trying to be mean. If you like doing all that work for an index fund gain, it's your fun, have at it. But you could have spent that time doing something else, maybe even something profitable, and ignored the money in one of those index funds, and made the same money.

I'm all for doing whatever you find fun. Heck, it's better entertainment than Hollywood and you don't pay $13 for a two hour block of entertainment.

Just remember to measure against indexes and pros... If they're beating you handily, you might consider letting them stress out while you go fishing. Pay 'em their fees, and give them grief when they can't beat the S&P working all day long at it.

 

[MSPAviator]

I'm long on GE @ $7.76/share. I haven't sold it yet because I'm three decades from retirement. Unfortunately I didn't buy enough of that in 2009 to retire now. Dividends are nice though.

 

[denverpilot]

I'm long on GE @ $7.76/share. I haven't sold it yet because I'm three decades from retirement. Unfortunately I didn't buy enough of that in 2009 to retire now. Dividends are nice though.

That's a nice triple, minus inflation.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Yes, but even strategic thinking will not spare your from some items going down and never recover their original prices. Frankly stock market is much more predictable in its down/up trends (which at least have some macro-economics understandable contexts) than art or antique or any other specialized market.

I find the opposite to be true.

Collectable markets are very predictable. Could one item or group of items go out of favor for a time? Yes, similarly to stocks you should use portfolio theory and not have more than 5% in any investment and it doesn't hurt to have 5 broad categories of collectables. Hard to do in the beginning but easier as you go on.

Coins are complicated by precious metal rise/fall but most art is more directly tied to how people feel about the economy and their future.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

My son is going very well with stocks. He bought a large quantity of a railroad I think it was Burlington Northern which was bought lock stock and barrel by Warren Buffet so now he has Berkshere stocks.

He also likes one of the Oil companies, I think Phillips 66. He made a killing on BofA stocks buying in at $2.60 but sold at $6.60, wished he kept it.

 

[Sam D]

I'm long on GE @ $7.76/share. I haven't sold it yet because I'm three decades from retirement. Unfortunately I didn't buy enough of that in 2009 to retire now. Dividends are nice though.

Why would you ever sell? You're getting a 10% dividend off a blue chip stock. That's pretty hard to replicate!

 

[Maxmosbey]

Someone mentioned they're doing 3% day-trading. Is that before or after fees?

Sadly, while definitely fun and interesting, that's not a very good number. A low-fee S&P 500 index fund usually matches that right now.

Not trying to be mean. If you like doing all that work for an index fund gain, it's your fun, have at it. But you could have spent that time doing something else, maybe even something profitable, and ignored the money in one of those index funds, and made the same money.

I'm all for doing whatever you find fun. Heck, it's better entertainment than Hollywood and you don't pay $13 for a two hour block of entertainment.

Just remember to measure against indexes and pros... If they're beating you handily, you might consider letting them stress out while you go fishing. Pay 'em their fees, and give them grief when they can't beat the S&P working all day long at it.

I've never done any day trading, but I've wondered if all the profits are taxed as short term capital gains?

 

[denverpilot]

I've never done any day trading, but I've wondered if all the profits are taxed as short term capital gains?

Generally, um... Maybe.

You have to meet certain trading criteria to be considered a "trader" as in "trading" is your business, which can change things taxation-wise dramatically.

Here's a law case where the person wanted to be classified as a trader since there are limits on tax benefits on large losses if you're only an "investor" and trading is not your business. He lost and was classified as an investor.

http://rubinontax.floridatax.com/2011/07/another-day-trader-taxed-as-investor.html?m=1