hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Well, I have only been following this board for a short time, and I do not read everything, as I am not yet a pilot, so a lot of it doesn't yet mean a whole lot to me.
To all the students out there.
- Thread starter saracelica
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Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
It will make more sense to you as you grow with time and experience. And I do believe that everyone on here has the best intentions, even though it may not always come off that way when you read the posts. So long as you keep that in mind in your time here, you should enjoy it. Although there are some people you won't like, just like every community.
Mike Smith
En-Route
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Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
+1
I obviously dont see this issue the same as others. However, this board has a wealth of information and experience. I dont "not like" anyone on here. People are different. I do absolutely respect everyones opinions and if I get in a jam I firmly believe that I could count on most, if not all on here to help. I am truly sorry that Sara got beat up like she did. But I do find this discourse helpful in a weird way.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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I think the discourse has provoked some very valuable discussions for everyone. Certainly there have been some over discourse for things I've done.
Thread creep used to bug me, at least on my threads. The people who told me it was the sign of a good thread were right. I now agree with them.
alfadog
Final Approach
Really? IDK. I do not know the personalities here but it seemed that folks with a prior beef with Sara came over to beat her up over something pretty innocuous that, IMHO, should have been taken in the spirit offered and gotten a pass.
Mike Smith
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Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
I agree with you. I guess what I mean is the discussion has made me think. I dont agree with her treatment, dont get me wrong.
denverpilot
Tied Down
The problem with the folks who say they're "helping" by pointing out other's weaknesses is that there's a fine line between being your Brother's Keeper and just being mean. Especially when the target of the criticism didn't ask for an opinion.
Some people are always going to fall down and go boom. And some are going to teeter on the edge of disaster for a lifetime. (Weebils wobble but they don't fall down! Grin...)
The certification system hasn't yet found a way to stop it, certainly no Internet message board ever will. At what point the criticism goes from constructive to destructive is the debate point here.
So someone's exhibiting "scary" behavior... At some point unless you're signing their logbook, you have to shrug it off unless you know them personally.
We can discuss how to change the process - that might lead to interesting new ideas. Or it might not.
In the end, it's well-proven that we, as pilots and humans, are by far the weakest link in Aviation safety. UAS's will just move that to the code developers, or "remote pilots".
Those who think they're s--- h-- in this game are just one bad wind gust away from enforcement action and an ALJ determining their fate, every time they go aloft.
Some people are always going to fall down and go boom. And some are going to teeter on the edge of disaster for a lifetime. (Weebils wobble but they don't fall down! Grin...)
The certification system hasn't yet found a way to stop it, certainly no Internet message board ever will. At what point the criticism goes from constructive to destructive is the debate point here.
So someone's exhibiting "scary" behavior... At some point unless you're signing their logbook, you have to shrug it off unless you know them personally.
We can discuss how to change the process - that might lead to interesting new ideas. Or it might not.
In the end, it's well-proven that we, as pilots and humans, are by far the weakest link in Aviation safety. UAS's will just move that to the code developers, or "remote pilots".
Those who think they're s--- h-- in this game are just one bad wind gust away from enforcement action and an ALJ determining their fate, every time they go aloft.
And if she demonstrates multiple hazardous attitudes that we all agree lead to killing people?
Calling the sentence that he objected to and relentlessly pursued a hazardous attitude would be an exaggeration at best, and he gave no advice that would help her be a safer or better pilot.
alfadog
Final Approach
I, for one, would rather that the bad ideas and hazardous attitudes were posted than not posted. I think it pretty unlikely that a true bad idea will go unchallenged and everyone can then learn something.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
Welcome Pinstriper, and I hope Sara comes back.
and the fact that most of the regular people in chat share this attitude really says something.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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Calling the sentence that he objected to and relentlessly pursued a hazardous attitude would be an exaggeration at best, and he gave no advice that would help her be a safer or better pilot.
Well, in my defense, I've given that to her plenty of times in chat. She's made it clear that she's not interested in advice, so I stopped wasting my time.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
It says it's ok to bully someone and dogpile them until they leave?
Well the "bullies" are the ones who have talked with her alot more.
When I read the opening post in its entirety, I don't see anything in it that requires the re-airing of past disagreements. If she had started repeating the hazardous attitudes, then fine, point out the problem. The relentless nit-picking in posts # 3, 10, and 15 contributed nothing to anyone's safety.
If I were a new pilot, and people were acting like I was incapable of learning to be a safe pilot, I sure wouldn't want to post here!
One reason I'm not a fan of chat is that it might not allow time to think things through, or to let things sink in, before replying.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
With the utterly arrogant attitude you evince in the posts int his thread, I would be similarly disinterested. Since she doesn't know you, I can easily see how she could reach the conclusion that you're a completely self-absorbed SOB. I am not entirely convinced I am still interacting with the charming young engineer I met in years past.
However, I remind myself that we can all be played false by the internet, yours truly spectacularly so. I really hope you don't consider it some sort of victory that you've helped drive away a frequent contributor to the board. As it stands she'll still go out and do whatever it is she'll do, but without the sage counsel that many on this board can supply.
Indeed, if the goal was to improve a pilot who you feel exhibits dangerous tendencies, then I submit all of your efforts are abject failures. If your goal was to illustrate how her attitudes were dangerous or improper, I believe you have failed similarly. At the end of the day all I see are high time pilots chastising a lower time pilot. Perhaps that's just me, but I've found in life that, despite my own peculiar tendencies, I am rarely alone in my viewpoint.
Given that your career in now predicated at least in part on flight training, you might give this episode some reflection.
Come on in sometime, we don't bite.
alfadog
Final Approach
a rabies shot prior to entering might be helpful...Except when we do
We're all vaccinated.
Captain
Final Approach
Hey, those were all my posts.
Look, I know many here see it differently than I. From where I sit and what I know of my intentions I see those posts as such:
Her: The 'statement' that I questioned.
Me (post 3) not angry. Just asking a question. I figured she'd see it (the statement) wasn't what she meant and back away from it.
Her: nothing. She responded to someone else but by omission (I waited almost an hour after that post to give time) it sorta seemed she was standing by the 'statement'.
Me (post 10) "so I guess we're not getting a response" was it snarky? A little. Okay, it was. But it was such a simple answer and I didn't think there was any way she could honestly think more things happened to her as a student than most pilots in a career.
Her: she quoted me and said something that in my mind had nothing to do with her 'statement' or my question. Like I ask if it's raining and she says she likes to swim. That leads to...
Me (post 15) in a not angry tone, not belittling maner I point out that what she said didn't have to do with the statement or the question. Do you really think the 'statement' is true?
That's when people piled on me and rather than monopolize her thread with endless banter I started my own...the 'Vent Thread'
Like I said before...I know some here don't see it that way or care how I see it. That's okay. I'm not here to make everybody happy. But what I just posted is how I actually see the events from my perspective.
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Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
I applaud you for seeing that it was snarky.
I've already explained why I disagree on that point. You haven't said why you find my explanation unsatisfactory. Once she said "I dunno," what more is there that needed to be said?
Perhaps this bears repeating:
I'm having a hard time seeing the perceived inaccuracy of her statement as important enough to pursue beyond the initial question. Also, I don't think tone comes across well on message boards. However, at that point, I don't think any real harm had been done.
When you started the new thread, you asked "how am I the bad guy?" People gave you their opinions on that question. (What were you expecting to happen?) That's when things really started going off the rails, because the thread was about determining who is the bad guy right from the start. And the implicit assumption was that there WAS a bad guy, rather than just differences of opinion.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Forgive me. I didn't realize that makes it ok to be a jerk. My apologies.
This is what it looks like to me, a noob. I hope that one day I see some redeeming quality in you, because right now, I don't.
I prefer having time to think about and edit my replies.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Is there some requirement that you ask a question and someone can't politely ignore you because you are out of bounds?
And she ignored you, so that made you angry, because when you ask a question, it must be answered.
She took the high road. IMO she's the better person - rather than defend herself, it looks to me like she tried to ignore the attack.
Because God forbid someone should not answer a question you ask, right?
Because you were in the wrong.
Because you felt the need for self-justification, and wanted everyone else to validate your need for it to be about you.
And instead of looking at how others see your attack, and perhaps learning from it, you are here posting again to justify your actions. I wouldn't fly with you if you offered me 500 hours of dual, free.
Captain
Final Approach
I guess "I dunno" was an answer and you accepted it. I might have to. It was the next sentence that made me think she either didn't understand what I said or didn't understand what she said or something.
'Is it raining? I dunno.' is different than 'is it raining? I dunno. I like to swim'
Break--
When I started the Vent thread I wasn't mad at Sara. I was upset at being piled on and said so. I probably shouldn't have started it. I said before it was sorta like going outside to yell by going in the corner of the room.
But I do think the discussion was overall healthy. Some good points were raised and talked about. Sara got her feelings hurt and that's unfortunate. Shell be fine though and I'm sure she'll be back.
Everskyward
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I agree. Seems like most of this piling on is more of a personality conflict than anything else. There are people I wouldn't want to get in an airplane with, not so much because I think they are bad pilots but because I suspect we would be very much like oil and water. Having worked in many crew parings both at work and in training I know it is true for me.
wabower
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Wayne
Don't even think about it. It's better to let this on run on forever to use up the time and attention that could otherwise be diverted to other threads.
cowtowner
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I tell you what.....when I read Cameron's statement, I knew one thing...he wasn't from Texas. If he was, he would have gotten he would have been taught better manners years ago. If I ran the forum, I'd ban him as this isn't his first time, and as a matter of fact brags about stirring the pot. Let him go to the red board and be an ass
silver-eagle
En-Route
+1!!!
and you can add a dozen or so to the list.
The red board has nothing on this place anymore.
Make that two ... and congratulations.
Threefingeredjack
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