Tips on landing flares

Jberg440

Jberg440

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Bozeman, MT
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Justin
Hey guys, well i cant seem to get the timing down of when to flare. Seems im always flaring too early. I understand the concepts i just think maybe i am over thinking it, and psyching myself out instead of landing the plane.

I did 12 landings today and i felt that 4 of them should have been better.

My CFI wants me to Solo Saturday if there is good WX. Any tips would be extremely helpful!

-Justin
 
quit worrying about it so much but that one is a lot easier said than done. tell your CFI to quite psyching you out by forecasting solos. just think about landing safely (slow touchdown) and you'll solo when you're ready.

look down to the end of the runway and use your peripheral vision to judge height. i like to teach the 'butt-sink' method which i probably picked up from someone on the forums.

come down to flaring height, pull until you are level, when you feel your butt start to sink, pull some more. continue this process until the nose is high, the speed is low, and the mains are on the ground.

quit thinking you have to land smoothly. just worry about landing safely. that means a nose high, slow touchdown on the mains.

oh yea, and quit thinking about soloing.
 
Grrrr.... I hate the "flare" word.

You're not "flaring" -- you're transitioning from descent to level off, the same way you do up in the air.

Get the airplane to fly about 2 feet above the runway while the stall horn chirps and you will land gracefully and gently.


-- I'll second Tony -- stop worrying about solo -- instead focus on airplane control while flying slowly close to the ground.
 
I'm a 19.8 Hour student Pilot and I'm still working on my Flares. I too flare early most of the time. Just wait for the sink and slowly pull the nose up and hold it up.
 
brilliant skip, ive never seen that one.
 
haha that's funny! Thanks guys for the tips. It nice hearing it put in other peoples terms.
 
Pull the power back, it will land eventually.






:fingerwag:
 
Jberg440 said:
Hey guys, well i cant seem to get the timing down of when to flare. Seems im always flaring too early. I understand the concepts i just think maybe i am over thinking it, and psyching myself out instead of landing the plane.

I did 12 landings today and i felt that 4 of them should have been better.

My CFI wants me to Solo Saturday if there is good WX. Any tips would be extremely helpful!
Click to expand...

Landing is easy. Just follow these three simple rules and you'll amaze your instructor with perfect spot landings:

1) Get on speed.
2) Pull the power at just the right height.
3) Pull back on the yoke at just the right time.

That's all there is toit. :D

Of course if ya screw up any part of it things can get very interesting. A Skyhawk can make a really neat "sprong" noise when yer just a tad late on #3 and bounce it about twenty feet or so in the air.:crazy:

Ok, a bit more seriously as others have said relax and follow the trained steps. Remember that you can almost always go around simply by opening the throttle and flying the plane. For me one of the biggest hurdles was learning to not watch the ground come up. On a good day I could judge the roundout just right by watching the ground but on a bad day I'd flinch as the ground came at me. Looking down the runway avoids the whole "ground rush" problem.
 
Don't sweat it and don't force it. I found that my ability to land dependably never happened. Actually, that's not entirely true, but my ability to land well is certainly a mite unpredictable. For you, it will happen when it happens and not a moment sooner. Everyone needs a different amount of time to learn different things, so don't worry, be happy.
 
Remember the palne will get itself on the ground. Your job is to make sure the mains touch down first and the longitudinal axis of the plane is moving down the runway.

Don't worry about your landings being smooth, just safe. At 450 hours and 600 or so landings over the past 2 years, I can still botch them up pretty well sometimes. Really nice greasers come with time and practice. The old adage of a great landing is any one that you can walk away from and the plane is immediately reusable is true!
 
Clark1961 said:
Landing is easy. Just follow these three simple rules and you'll amaze your instructor with perfect spot landings:

1) Get on speed.
2) Pull the power at just the right height.
3) Pull back on the yoke at just the right time.

That's all there is toit. :D

Of course if ya screw up any part of it things can get very interesting. A Skyhawk can make a really neat "sprong" noise when yer just a tad late on #3 and bounce it about twenty feet or so in the air.:crazy:

Ok, a bit more seriously as others have said relax and follow the trained steps. Remember that you can almost always go around simply by opening the throttle and flying the plane. For me one of the biggest hurdles was learning to not watch the ground come up. On a good day I could judge the roundout just right by watching the ground but on a bad day I'd flinch as the ground came at me. Looking down the runway avoids the whole "ground rush" problem.
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Sure you didn't mean this?
 

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Skip Miller said:
Try some of these. I understand you can get them from Sporty's.

-Skip
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Skip, i just got off the phone with em' over at Sporty's and unfortunately they were fresh out of Landing Flares......But i managed to score the last POH for pretty women, so now hopefully i can land one of them a little smoother ;)
 
A good landing, for me, has that je ne sais quoi about it. I find the really smooth ones sneak up on me, which tells me that its luck rather than skill. Just remember the muscle movements and tweak as needed.
 
Jberg440 said:
Hey guys, well i cant seem to get the timing down of when to flare. Seems im always flaring too early. I understand the concepts i just think maybe i am over thinking it, and psyching myself out instead of landing the plane.

I did 12 landings today and i felt that 4 of them should have been better.

My CFI wants me to Solo Saturday if there is good WX. Any tips would be extremely helpful!

-Justin
Click to expand...
Justin -

When I was learning to fly, my landings were always to the left of the centerline, but always on the runway. I flared high, pulling up on the yoke and gaining altitude, then letting it down, pulling up, and then dropping down onto the runway. Plop.

There are a number of things for you to consider. First is to find out why you are flaring high.

I was afraid of the concrete. The nose was pointed down and I was staring at this cement slab that was rushing up at breakneck speed. I held my breath and wanted to look away, but couldn't. As soon as the runway was unbearably close, I gritted my teeth and pulled back only to see the clouds again. Down, up, down, up, down, plop.

My solution was to learn deep breathing exercises (no lie) on final and coming in without flaps so that the sight picture was more shallow and the extra lift was not there. As soon as I thought I was ready to flare, my vision transferred to the far end of the runway and I got the sight picture that told me how high I was.

Which leads to another possible reason you are flaring high. Do you have a good sight picture? A friend always peeked to the side when landing just so he could see how high he was. Eyes back to the front, but he knew. Would it help to have your CFI call out your height above the runway, then tell you exactly when to flare? Certainly not every time, but once or twice until the picture is there.

A couple of months ago someone posted a website where a pilot posted several videos of approaches to different airports. I cannot find it, but I bet someone else can remember it. Anyway, if you watch those, it may help a little with getting that visual image.

Are you coming in a little fast for your airplane? My airplane has droop wings, gap seals, and stall dams. All of these decrease the stall speed. If I am coming in at good approach speed for other aircraft, and follow the same trajectory, we will float quite some extra distance down the runway.

All the answers you got from the guys in this thread are good. I just think you need to answer the question of why you flare high first. I'm a professional tester. We have a procedure.
1. Identify a problem
2. Find the cause
3. Fix the problem by removing the cause
4. Make sure the fix worked and didn't break anything else.

I think you were trying to jump straight from #1 to #3.
 
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My instructor explained it to me like this...


"You're a dragonfly with sore feet trying to land on a lillypad"
 
Jberg440 said:
Skip, i just got off the phone with em' over at Sporty's and unfortunately they were fresh out of Landing Flares......But i managed to score the last POH for pretty women, so now hopefully i can land one of them a little smoother ;)
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They sold you some snake oil there. And they were lying about not having any landing flares, I just bought a refill. ;)
 
Well, I think it's going too far to say good landings are "luck."

The difference between float-stall-horn-hold-it-boom and Barely-know-you-re-on-the-ground type landings is about 8 inches.

Sometimes you have the eye and feel it, other times you're off a bit. So shoot for perfection each time and keep your range 16 inches up or down. The same way you hold altitude -- instead of being satisfied with 100' +/-, shoot for 25'
 
Jberg440 said:
Skip, i just got off the phone with em' over at Sporty's and unfortunately they were fresh out of Landing Flares......But i managed to score the last POH for pretty women, so now hopefully i can land one of them a little smoother ;)
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The MSDS is not a POH even though they try to pass it off as one:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Substance: Woman
Chemical System: Wo
Manufacturer: God
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from 90 to over 200 lbs.
Occurrence: Large quantities found in urban areas and
shopping malls.


PHYSICAL PROPERTIES:
--------------------

1. Surface Tension--soft and warm.
2. Exposed surfaces usually cosmetically enhanced.
3. Boils at nothing.
4. Freezes without reason.
5. Melts with special reason.
6. Flavor initially sweet, becomes bitter if used incorrectly.
7. Found in various states of purity from virgin metal to common ore.
8. Yields to pressure applied to specific points.
9. Sometimes enlarges alarminly with age.
10. Even brief linking with male substance can cause substance to
reproduce with marked physical and mental changes.


CHEMICAL PROPERTIES:
--------------------

1. Has affinity for gold, silver, and precious stones.
2. Absorbs great quantities of expensive substances.
3. Highly volatile for reasons not clearly understood.
4. Verbal activity greatly increased by alcohol saturation.
5. Most powerful money-reducing agent known (See HAZARDS, #3)


COMMON USES:
------------

1. Highly ornamental.
2. Relatively brief exposure can be a great aid to relaxation.
3. Pleasurable companion until legally owned.


SUBSTANCE VERIFICATION:
-----------------------

1. Pure specimen turns bright pink when observed in natural state.
2. Turns green when compared to better specimen.


HAZZARDS:
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1. May explode spontaneously without cause.
2. Illegal to possess more than one specimen at a time.
3. Avoid specimen contact with plastic credit cards.
 
Aunt Peg, what you said is me exactly, i am having trouble judging how high i am off the runway, so when i pull up im actually 4 feet off instead of 1-2 ft which results in dropping like a rock. I know another thing that didn't help was that i was getting frustrated. Thanks again for all the insight everyone!!
 
Jberg440 said:
Aunt Peg, what you said is me exactly, i am having trouble judging how high i am off the runway, so when i pull up im actually 4 feet off instead of 1-2 ft which results in dropping like a rock. I know another thing that didn't help was that i was getting frustrated. Thanks again for all the insight everyone!!
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In a C150/152, you can sit in the airplane as your CFI pushes down on the rear of the fuselage (if he doesn't know where, he can ask an A&P where to push).

Then you can get a good look at what the ground should look like in a landing attitude.

Also -- are you looking straight ahead or a bit to the side? Glance to the side once in a while -- it will increase your height judgment and perception.
 
The same advice works for most landing problems. On a long runway, fly the approach normally. When you think you should flare, add enough power to maintain flight, just above the runway and in landing attitude. Fly the length of the runway, then climb and fly the pattern again. Repeat the approach process, but this time hold it a foot off the ground for a while, then pull the power back slightly. The airplane will land and you will spend the rest of the day wondering why it has been so hard.
 
wabower said:
The same advice works for most landing problems. On a long runway, fly the approach normally. When you think you should flare, add enough power to maintain flight, just above the runway and in landing attitude. Fly the length of the runway, then climb and fly the pattern again. Repeat the approach process, but this time hold it a foot off the ground for a while, then pull the power back slightly. The airplane will land and you will spend the rest of the day wondering why it has been so hard.
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Best advice yet, right there...

:thumbsup:
 
Justin:

You are NOT alone here my friend. Believe me, I am no expert, and learn every time I fly, and everyone on here has been following my adventures in learning and, even though I have logged somewhere over 250 landings and am taking my license checkride, it still is an exercise in working at getting them acceptable every time. When you said that you 'pull up' it hit me that I was doing just that and had the same issues you have now. It is not easy to trust the plane to settle down and not pull it up. Let the airspeed bleed off and as it does, keep the nose level and then with very gentle inputs increase the backpressure so the nose just sits above the horizon and the mains settle in first...and as everyone has said, don't look at the runway just ahead..I was taught, to anticipate the point just ahead of the numbers, then look ahead to the aiming point, then out to the far end of the runway.
 
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wabower said:
The same advice works for most landing problems. On a long runway, fly the approach normally. When you think you should flare, add enough power to maintain flight, just above the runway and in landing attitude. Fly the length of the runway, then climb and fly the pattern again. Repeat the approach process, but this time hold it a foot off the ground for a while, then pull the power back slightly. The airplane will land and you will spend the rest of the day wondering why it has been so hard.
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+2

That's almost exactly what my instructor had me do...over and over and over again...when I was flaring too high.
 
The most common problem I see with flaring is arriving over the threshold with too much speed. Keep your speed down where it belongs and it's a whole lot easier.
 
Mine did too. In 1957. Not much has changed, eh?

timwinters said:
+2

That's almost exactly what my instructor had me do...over and over and over again...when I was flaring too high.
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”There are three simple rules for a good landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."
”Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man; landing is the first.”

There's a lot of ways to make a good landing, it's all about practicing and finding the one that works for you. There's been some great advise in this thread, but I think some of the best advise is to just stop worrying and let it come. Focus on. Making it safe, on speed, and on the center line and the rest will come. And as someone pointed out, if you're doing good on 2/3 of your landings, you're doing pretty well! I average 3-4 landings a day, four days a week, and if I can make 2/3 of them greasers in any week, I'm pretty happy.
 
I've found that if I just fly airplanes with trailing-link gear the percentage of good ones will increase dramatically. :tongue:

Teller1900 said:
”There are three simple rules for a good landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."
”Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man; landing is the first.”

There's a lot of ways to make a good landing, it's all about practicing and finding the one that works for you. There's been some great advise in this thread, but I think some of the best advise is to just stop worrying and let it come. Focus on. Making it safe, on speed, and on the center line and the rest will come. And as someone pointed out, if you're doing good on 2/3 of your landings, you're doing pretty well! I average 3-4 landings a day, four days a week, and if I can make 2/3 of them greasers in any week, I'm pretty happy.
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Point the airplane at the ground, when the instructor flinches, pull back. Caution, this method does not work when flying solo.;)

Seriously, there is some real good advice in this thread. Not every tip works for every person. Try them all and see what works for you. Don't pressure yourself into soloing on a specific day, at this stage you will experience ups and downs. It will eventually "click" for you, and you'll wonder why it seemed so hard.
 
Lots of good advice, and here's a little (second-hand) story about the "secret" of good landings:

A pilot I know learned to fly taildraggers in a Citabria with an "early bird" sort of instructor... my friend already had experience enough to land trikes with aplomb, but he could not seem to set this new type down properly, even in a 3-point attitude. He was very frustrated- he was sure he understood how to "flare" and all that, and he knew that the tailwheel configuration really made no difference at that moment. But he bounced, or floated, or dropped it on heavily, no matter how hard he tried to "flare" it properly.
So the instructor had him set up his next approach as usual: power, trim and sight angles as they should be, but told him "at some point on short final, I will take over on the stick. You just stay on the rudder, and do not touch that stick no matter what!" He did as he was told- put his hands in his lap when the instructor took over.
My friend was a bit alarmed when they came over the fence and he felt the instructor's hands on his shoulders- the stick was completely unattended! :yikes:

As you might imagine, because the airplane was already established in the proper glide configuration, the landing was damn near perfect. After that epiphany, he got the hang of it right away, and learned a valuable lesson about landing any airplane.

Of course, in any sort of crosswind or gusts, you have to work the stick (or yoke) a little, but I think you get what I'm talking about: a good landing starts at the top of final, if not earlier... and if you have the plane doing what it should, at the "moment of truth", less is more. ;)
 
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Landing is one of the hardest things to learn as a student, but once you get it down you'll wonder why it took you so long and why it was so hard.

One thing that will help is practicing slow flight, because that's exactly what you're doing (or should be doing) at the point of flare is flying the airplane at minimum controllable airspeed. The difference is at altitude you'll have as long as you want to practice slow flight, rather than just a few scant seconds while landing.

Another thing that's hard for even some low time pilots to understand is energy management. Low and fast is the same energy state as high and slow. So it doesn't do you much good to be on speed (1.3 Vso) on final if you're too high because you still have a considerable amount of energy that you need to bleed off.

Eventually you just get the hang of it through experience and you get to the point where you just see the runway and land on it. It's easy for someone with experience to say just do it and not think about it, because they do have the skills to manage their energy without thinking about it. You don't. Spend a bit of time thinking about the physics involved and it will make your practice more productive. Eventually you'll get there. Everyone who doesn't quit does. Just have fun with it in the mean time and it will come.
 
I too am always concerned when a guy is behind me and I feel both of his hands on my shoulders.

rottydaddy said:
Lots of good advice, and here's a little (second-hand) story about the "secret" of good landings:

A pilot I know learned to fly taildraggers in a Citabria with an "early bird" sort of instructor... my friend already had experience enough to land trikes with aplomb, but he could not seem to set this new type down properly, even in a 3-point attitude. He was very frustrated- he was sure he understood how to "flare" and all that, and he knew that the tailwheel configuration really made no difference at that moment. But he bounced, or floated, or dropped it on heavily, no matter how hard he tried to "flare" it properly.
So the instructor had him set up his next approach as usual: power, trim and sight angles as they should be, but told him "at some point on short final, I will take over on the stick. You just stay on the rudder, and do not touch that stick no matter what!" He did as he was told- put his hands in his lap when the instructor took over.
My friend was a bit alarmed when they came over the fence and he felt the instructor's hands on his shoulders- the stick was completely unattended! :yikes:

As you might imagine, because the airplane was already established in the proper glide configuration, the landing was damn near perfect. After that epiphany, he got the hang of it right away, and learned a valuable lesson about landing any airplane.

Of course, in any sort of crosswind or gusts, you have to work the stick (or yoke) a little, but I think you get what I'm talking about: a good landing starts at the top of final, if not earlier... and if you have the plane doing what it should, at the "moment of truth", less is more. ;)
Click to expand...
 
Clark1961 said:
For me one of the biggest hurdles was learning to not watch the ground come up. On a good day I could judge the roundout just right by watching the ground but on a bad day I'd flinch as the ground came at me. Looking down the runway avoids the whole "ground rush" problem.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Once I learned to keep looking *down* the runway my landings got much better. There's an sight picture that goes with it, but if I tried to describe it you would like Woodstock in Skip's post. Good one !

Also, rushing to get the aircraft on the ground if one encounter float will ruin a good landing.

  1. On speed
  2. On the center-line
  3. On spot
  4. Relax

It's a lot like sex, the longer you can hold off the finale, the sweeter it will be.
 
wabower said:
I too am always concerned when a guy is behind me and I feel both of his hands on my shoulders.
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:rofl::rofl:

I was thinking the same, Wayne.
 
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