Tips on landing flares

[wsuffa]

I've found that if I just fly airplanes with trailing-link gear the percentage of good ones will increase dramatically.

+1...

+2.....

 

[John Collins]

Justin,

There is some good advice in the previous posts. I take a slightly different approach to learning landing and where to flare. First of all, be on airspeed. You should be primarily looking well down the runway for good alignment, with brief checks on your height above the ground by looking to the side. I use objects of known size such as runway lights to help judge height.

There is quite a range where you can commence the flare and still end with a successful landing. You don't need to arrest all of the descent in one single flare action, it takes too much judgement. Break the flare up into a series of pitch up changes, all the while getting closer to the runway. Ideally you will arrive at a level attitude and close to the ground. If you allow the aircraft to sink while in the level attitude and arrest the sink by increasing your pitch, and continue to repeat the process as the sink continues, the runway will eventually prevent you from going any lower as the mains roll on.

Key to this approach is to recognize the sinking and to not allow the aircraft to balloon. You don't need depth perception to determine when you are sinking, it is all done with your peripheral vision. To understand what I am talking about, stand outside your airplane at the airport, look to the horizon and focus there. Then bend your knees slowly so your head is lowered a foot or so and pay attention to your peripheral vision as you flex your knees. While you are bending your knees and lowering your head is what it looks like when you are sinking. When you straighten up is what a balloon looks like. Once you learn how to read these ques, you will recognize them when you are in the airplane.

When in the airplane, flying level over the runway by a few feet (could be as much as 5 feet) and you detect that you are sinking, apply sufficient back pressure to arrest the descent. If you sense a balloon, immediately release the back pressure to prevent the aircraft from climbing and resume the sink. If you don't catch the balloon soon enough add some power to buy more time or go around. If done properly, the aircraft will loose energy and start sinking again, continue to repeat the process and a landing is inevitable.

 

[BigAL]

Also remember that when you get it "just right" w/the CFI, then you'll solo. Then you start all over cause the plane will be "different" w/out him/her in it.

I used to hit once then land, kind-of a warning to the mains and concrete that "I'm come'n in!"

Fly relaxed, confident, and in control and you'll be fine. If one of those is miss'n, go around.

 

[MikePapa]

I too am always concerned when a guy is behind me and I feel both of his hands on my shoulders.

Sounds like you either need to get a female doctor or stop hanging out at the turkish baths.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Anybody besides me think that if two-thirds are acceptable he's doing pretty good?

That's what I was thinking, too.

 

[Flyparrothead]

Another good tip, esp at night....when you start seeing things on the runway like tire marks from past landing, grooves from the runway, things like that, start your flare. I used that technique last night, and nailed a smooth landing every time.

 

[taters]

Look where you would if you were driving down a long straight highway..and pay attention to the cues from your peripheral vision that the plane is sinking....when you feel a "looseness in the yoke " you have found ground effect .. now transition the plane into a power off stall a foot or 3 over the runway ..remember its more of a contant slow incremental increase in back pressure than a sudden piece meal movement on the yoke..One of the most important things that I preach to my students is never ever ever ever give up flying the plane during the landing...you must overcome the false voice inside your head to let the plane land before its ready.

-For an A+ you should hear the stall horn just begining to belch as the mains start rolling on the pavement...now hold the nose off until it decides it wants to touch down on its own.

Have Fun!! you WILL get it done

 

[Dan Thomas]

Most landing difficulties start on the downwind leg. If you don't plan ahead and arrive at the right spot at the right speed and the right altitude, the landing will get harder. I see many guys coming in too fast or too high, or both, and the best they can get from that is a long float before touchdown. More typically they'll dive at the runway to lose height, which just adds speed, making things worse. Or they'll land really fast, which means really flat, with the risk of porpoising or wheelbarrowing. Or they'll hold the approach speed right up until they're two feet off and flare suddenly, usually ballooning and running the risk of ending up too slow too far off the surface. Expensive noises follow.

The textbooks will tell you to reduce power and start raising the nose at between 15 and 30 feet above the surface. That's to get rid of excess speed before you get into ground effect. And it's assuming you had the right approach speed to start with, not something that's been padded to prevent the dreaded stall. As the nose comes up the speed will fall and the airplane will sink a little faster, which you control by raising the nose a little more. Repeat this until you're down. You'll arrive at the surface with too little speed to balloon or float and will have a better chance of hitting the intended touchdown point.

Dan

 

[flyingcheesehead]

i like to teach the 'butt-sink' method which i probably picked up from someone on the forums.

come down to flaring height, pull until you are level, when you feel your butt start to sink, pull some more. continue this process until the nose is high, the speed is low, and the mains are on the ground.

Aunt Peg, what you said is me exactly, i am having trouble judging how high i am off the runway, so when i pull up im actually 4 feet off instead of 1-2 ft which results in dropping like a rock.

It sounds like you're having the same problem I did, so let me tell you how I fixed it.

I had heard of the "butt sink" method Tony describes as being the way to go, but my butt apparently wasn't sensitive enough - By the time I sensed the sink, I was sinking too fast, I'd have to yank back on the yoke to keep from pancaking into the ground, and then I'd balloon and have to start the process over, usually ending up with a bone-jarring arrival, a bounce, or a go-around.

It was driving me nuts, and so I had to think of an alternative method. What I realized is that the laws of physics actually do apply to airplanes - An airplane that's held in a level attitude with power at idle will slow down, and will go down if held in that same attitude. The trick is, you need to be adding back pressure *and* letting the plane go down. But now I'm beginning to over-explain, which might lead to you over-thinking. So here's the solution I came up with:

Pull the power at 30 AGL or so, round out (level off), count to two, and just start slowly adding back pressure to the yoke, regardless of whether you feel or see any sink. If you add back pressure too fast, you'll balloon (but not as much as you would if you waited for the "butt sink" and reacted), if you don't add it fast enough you'll touch down early (which may result in porpoising - If this happens, go around). But things will happen a little slower. Because of that, you'll have a chance to get a feel for what's happening rather than simply react.

Amazingly enough, the technique I describe above worked wonders for me, and by the time I had my ticket I actually could feel and see the subtle cues needed to execute a "by the book" landing, and I no longer needed to do the hold, count to two, pull method.

Hope this helps!

Kent

 

[gismo]

Anybody besides me think that if two-thirds are acceptable he's doing pretty good?

Depends on how bad the other one third were.

 

[gismo]

There is quite a range where you can commence the flare and still end with a successful landing. You don't need to arrest all of the descent in one single flare action, it takes too much judgement. Break the flare up into a series of pitch up changes, all the while getting closer to the runway. Ideally you will arrive at a level attitude and close to the ground. If you allow the aircraft to sink while in the level attitude and arrest the sink by increasing your pitch, and continue to repeat the process as the sink continues, the runway will eventually prevent you from going any lower as the mains roll on.

John, that sounds an awful lot like Dr. Bruce's "Butt sink" method (and good advice).

Key to this approach is to recognize the sinking and to not allow the aircraft to balloon. You don't need depth perception to determine when you are sinking, it is all done with your peripheral vision. To understand what I am talking about, stand outside your airplane at the airport, look to the horizon and focus there. Then bend your knees slowly so your head is lowered a foot or so and pay attention to your peripheral vision as you flex your knees. While you are bending your knees and lowering your head is what it looks like when you are sinking. When you straighten up is what a balloon looks like. Once you learn how to read these ques, you will recognize them when you are in the airplane

All very good, but I think there's one more salient point. IMO it's important to learn to recognize and pay attention to the rate of the sinking (or ballooning) to overcome a tendency to overcontrol during the final moments of a landing. Once you learn to adjust your control pressure based on not only the direction of vertical movement but also the vertical speed (hint: more speed==more pressure) things tend to smooth out dramatically. I suspect that whenever a student achieves these two things (sensing vertical speed while looking at the far end of the runway and making control movements in proportion to the vertical speed) they will also get that "I can do this" feeling.

So to add to your knee straining suggestion I recommend that Justin try that while squatting very slowly as well as dropping a bit quicker to better visualize the rate issue.

 

[John Collins]

Lance,

Good additions.

 

[jasc15]

Here's a question: How do you change your glideslope when you realize you are too steep or too shallow? On my last flight, i knew well in advance that i was too high, and that i would be coming in steep. What i tried to do was to lose altitude quickly until i intercepted the right glideslope, then decrease my descent rate until i reached that proper glideslope. It wasnt successful, and i wound up coming in steep and ballooning, eventually putting it down after a few light bounces on the main.

 

[dmccormack]

Here's a question: How do you change your glideslope when you realize you are too steep or too shallow? On my last flight, i knew well in advance that i was too high, and that i would be coming in steep. What i tried to do was to lose altitude quickly until i intercepted the right glideslope, then decrease my descent rate until i reached that proper glideslope. It wasnt successful, and i wound up coming in steep and ballooning, eventually putting it down after a few light bounces on the main.

A slip allows you to increase sink rate without increasing airspeed much (the airplane is presenting its side to the direction of flight and increasing drag significantly).

Since you should know how to slip to adjust for crosswinds, you may as well master them ASAP.

Solo, I fly a fairly tight pattern and use all flaps and often toss in a slip to managed the few dozen feet I may be high on final. With anxious passengers I may do a longer, power-on final to keep the manuevering on final to a minimum.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Here's a question: How do you change your glideslope when you realize you are too steep or too shallow? On my last flight, i knew well in advance that i was too high, and that i would be coming in steep. What i tried to do was to lose altitude quickly until i intercepted the right glideslope,

How did you "lose altitude quickly"? If you put the nose down, you just ended up with extra speed.

I never tried to fly any particular "glideslope" being as I am just a plain old VFR pilot - my objective was to adjust the glide as necessary with flaps (on those airplanes that had them) or slip (on other aircraft) to intercept the end of the runway without flying too fast.

then decrease my descent rate until i reached that proper glideslope. It wasnt successful, and i wound up coming in steep and ballooning, eventually putting it down after a few light bounces on the main.

Too fast?

 

[jasc15]

How did you "lose altitude quickly"? If you put the nose down, you just ended up with extra speed.

I never tried to fly any particular "glideslope" being as I am just a plain old VFR pilot - my objective was to adjust the glide as necessary with flaps (on those airplanes that had them) or slip (on other aircraft) to intercept the end of the runway without flying too fast.



Too fast?

I just cut the power. I didnt want to also gain speed by pitching down. I added power later, when closer to the ground so i could decrease the descent rate, but that made me balloon. I'm good with landings when my approach is dead on, but any hiccup, or short approach messes me up, and i find myself having to lose altitude quickly.

 

[RMCN172RG]

How did you "lose altitude quickly"? If you put the nose down, you just ended up with extra speed.

I never tried to fly any particular "glideslope" being as I am just a plain old VFR pilot - my objective was to adjust the glide as necessary with flaps (on those airplanes that had them) or slip (on other aircraft) to intercept the end of the runway without flying too fast.

Too fast?

What I was taught in the 172SP and works for the 172RG.

When you are high and want to land short power to idle, full flaps and 60 knots airspeed.

You descend at a steep angle but the slow speeds, horizontal and vertical, keep things manageable with a margin of safety over stall speed.

PS don't try that with a gusty cross wind.

 

[dmccormack]

I just cut the power. I didnt want to also gain speed by pitching down. I added power later, when closer to the ground so i could decrease the descent rate, but that made me balloon. I'm good with landings when my approach is dead on, but any hiccup, or short approach messes me up, and i find myself having to lose altitude quickly.

It's an oversimplification, but may help at this point....

Think of "power" as your glideslope adjuster, and pitch as your speed manager.

Descending too rapidly? Add power (most student pilots add too much, so try to be gentle here)

Too high? Reduce power (again, gently)

Airspeed too high? Pitch up (slightly!)

Airspeed too slow? Pitch down (again, slightly)

If you're way too high, go around until you master slips. Until then, you should be set up for a fairly straightforward final after your turn from base (a good landing starts on downwind, but anyway...)

I teach full flaps on every landing since the point is we want to arrive at the runway with as little energy as required to actually land. So by the time you're set up on final you should be full or nearly full flaps (you'll also hear the debate about flaps in crosswinds, etc, etc -- ignore that for now)

:smile:




(Of course, this post will be followed by plenty of "experts" letting you know all the relevant formula, ad naseum.



Don't worry -- all that stuff will come eventually. Right now you need to simplify your energy management, and this is pretty simple.)

 

[Jberg440]

Guys i really wanna thank you for all the help! Yesterday i went up and did some pattern work for runway 13, winds were 160/14 G23. So needless to say im getting very comfortable with my cross wind landings, which is a way of life in NW MN (aka land of sugar beets and wind). I also tried alot of the tips you guys gave me, from utilizing the whole runway to making the stall horn chirp rite before touch down. Its amazing how much more confident i was when i reilized "hey this really isnt that hard".

 

[AuntPeggy]

Guys i really wanna thank you for all the help! Yesterday i went up and did some pattern work for runway 13, winds were 160/14 G23. So needless to say im getting very comfortable with my cross wind landings, which is a way of life in NW MN (aka land of sugar beets and wind). I also tried alot of the tips you guys gave me, from utilizing the whole runway to making the stall horn chirp rite before touch down. Its amazing how much more confident i was when i reilized "hey this really isnt that hard".

Atta boy.

 

[rottydaddy]

It was driving me nuts, and so I had to think of an alternative method. What I realized is that the laws of physics actually do apply to airplanes - An airplane that's held in a level attitude with power at idle will slow down, and will go down if held in that same attitude.

This is the big "secret"- to think less of "flaring" or "rounding out" and more of just leveling off and holding it in the landing attitude. If you've done the rest of the pattern right, this method works every time.

 

[dmccormack]

This is the big "secret"- to think less of "flaring" or "rounding out" and more of just leveling off and holding it in the landing attitude. If you've done the rest of the pattern right, this method works every time.

...which is precisely why I don't teach or use "flare," unless someone comes to me with the word already implanted in their head.

 

[sambonz]

Justin

I like what Dan Mac said. Last thursday I did a greaser, so I will describe how it felt. I leveled off just above the runway and slowly pulled the yoke back and let it settle to the pavement...I heard a chirp as the wheels made contact, but for the most part it was like landing on a pillow. I only did that once, but Dan described how it went. I was not able to duplicate that landing in subsequent landings, because I have been trying to go from a descent to a nose up stall attitude and somehow touch the pavement at just the right attitude and air speed....otherwise you baloon if you raise too much or bounce if you don't raise enough....Like I said I like Dan's suggestion, it seems so logical.

 

[denverpilot]

"Fly in close formation with the runway."

 

[onwards]

OK, this is probably not too useful, but it really helped me when I was going through my training (I'm still less than a month "old"):

Ignore the flare. Instead, take an entire training session for touch-n-gos and ask your instructor to do nothing except tell you when to start leveling off - while never looking inside the cockpit (strange as it may sound, this is the hardest part, so I recommend literally covering the instruments with something so you can't look at them). Just look outside, resolutely. The idea here is to develop the proper sight picture. At some point, suddenly your muscle memory will take over, and when the right thing is happening outside the plane, the right thing will start happening inside the plane, too.

 

[gkainz]

I just used the audible signal my CFI would give ... somewhere along short final, he would kinda do a funny gasp ... I assumed this meant "time to level off". I did notice somewhere along the lines, that his fingers would curl, his eyes would bug out a little, and he would make these funny little involuntary muscle spasms in his arms, like he was trying to reach out for the yoke.

I kind of missed those signals on my solo.

 

[gismo]

I just used the audible signal my CFI would give ... somewhere along short final, he would kinda do a funny gasp ... I assumed this meant "time to level off". I did notice somewhere along the lines, that his fingers would curl, his eyes would bug out a little, and he would make these funny little involuntary muscle spasms in his arms, like he was trying to reach out for the yoke.

I kind of missed those signals on my solo.

And if he screams you'd best just firewall the throttle and go around for another try?