Thurman Munson redux

Pretty much an empty glass. While the article says that "critically" Munson didn't lower the flaps on the fatal approach, in fact he was performing a planned no flaps landing and had announced his intention to the pilot rated passenger in the right seat.

The right seater was Dave Hall, the CFI that trained Munson for a MEL certificate in the Duke Munson had purchased shortly after obtaining his SEL ticket. Hall had never been in the cockpit of a jet until the day of the accident.

The left side fuselage of the aircraft struck a four to six foot tall tree stump, crushing the cockpit and trapping Munson in the aircraft.

Edit: My statement about the no-flaps landing is incorrect. Munson allowed the pilot rated passenger to perform a no-flaps approach and landing during a touch and go made before the crash. After the last touch and go prior to the accident, Munson retracted the flaps and failed to lower them again during the accident approach and crash.

Sorry for this misinformation. It's been several years since I read the accident report, and after looking at it again today I discovered my error.
 
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Boy, having to bail from flames and smoke while leaving someone... Not sure how you overcome that.

No judgement; they would’ve just died with him. Just not sure how you heal from that.
 
I thought some might he interested in the experience Munson had accumulated prior to the crash. He had been flying for just 18 months when the fatal incident occurred.

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1.5 Personnel Information

The pilot's logbook revealed that he began flight training on
accordance with current regulations. (See appendix B.)
February 27, 1978, in a Cessna 150 aircraft. He continued flight training in single-engine Cessna aircraft until April 10, 1978, at which time he also began training in the Beech BE-60, "Duke," twin-engine aircraft.

The pilot completed successfully his private pilot checkride on June 11, 1978, in a Cessna 172. His logbook showed that he had logged 25.0 hrs pilot-in-command and 65.2 hrs dual when his Private Pilot Certificate was issued.

The pilot received his multiengine rating on June 15, 1978, in a BE-60 aircraft. He had logged 23.8 hrs in the BE-60 and had logged 97.2 hrs total flight time when he took his multiengine checkride.

On February 10, 1979, at a total logged flying time of 330 hrs, the pilot purchased and began flying a Beech E-90 "King Air." His logbook revealed that he flew this aircraft until July 6, 1979, when he purchased the Cessna Citation, N15NY. His total logged flying time on July 6 was about 480 hrs, which included 428 hrs of multiengine time.

His total time was broken down into 165 hrs dual and 315 hrs pilot-in-command. The pilot flew N15NY with a flight instructor for 10 flights before receiving his type-rating in the aircraft on July 17, 1979. He had logged 21.7 hrs and 24 landings in the aircraft before his checkride, which was 1.5 hrs long and included 8 landings. The checkride was flown in N488CC, another Cessna CE-501 Citation.

In the 16 days following the type-rating checkride, the pilot logged 10.6 hrs in the Citation (N15NY). He logged 4.1 hrs of this time as pilot-in-command, single pilot.

The pilot's total logged flying time at the time of the accident was 516.2 hrs, 33.8 hrs of which were logged in the CE-501 model aircraft.
 
Its been a while since I read the actual reg but I believe he is one of the few pilots to be known for a reg; even named for him (in the flying community, not in the FARs) ie the 'Thurman Munson regulation'...and is it not also one of the few regs that specifically tells you how to fly the airplane. I always though that was sort of an effort to show people that 'Something was Done' and that the accident was not just glossed over by the FAA. (not saying I agree with the reg, it seems pretty unhelpful to me)
 
From the NTSB report CHI79FA064:

"Failure to use the available shoulder harness restraints system is deemed a contribution factor in the death of Pilot Munson."

Hard to believe he wasn't using his shoulder harness.
RIP Thurman Munson
 
He could have easily afforded a copilot, but you can tell from the history of his flying hours he was a total type A and thought his superior will could prevail over any circumstance.

It was a real shock when he died. He was going to be another Yankee Hall of Fame member.
 
Brad Smith said:
From the NTSB report CHI79FA064:

"Failure to use the available shoulder harness restraints system is deemed a contribution factor in the death of Pilot Munson."

Hard to believe he wasn't using his shoulder harness.
RIP Thurman Munson
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This was 1978. Not surprised at all.
 
luvflyin said:
Whenever this subject comes up I am reminded of this story. Different circumstances but I don’t think Thurman would have been the type of guy who would expect others to die just because he did.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-02-28/sports/sp-576_1_climbers-survive-ordeal
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Matthew said:
I haven't read that book, but I have seen the movie a couple times.

Touching the Void
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379557/
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It’s a very good book.

Better than the book about mountaineering dude who sawed off his own arm when he was pinned by a rock.

Both interesting but Void was better.

And of course there’s Crackower’s book about one of many deadly days on Everest.

If I had to pick, Void is better than Thin Air, too.

By a nose.

Not intended as a joke or disrespect to Dr. Beck.

Okay I’m lying... the phrase came to mind and I have a sick sense of humor. :)

(Honestly Beck’s recovery, surgeries, and his interviews and thoughts about it all, are amazing and fascinating.)
 
denverpilot said:
It’s a very good book.

Better than the book about mountaineering dude who sawed off his own arm when he was pinned by a rock.

Both interesting but Void was better.

And of course there’s Crackower’s book about one of many deadly days on Everest.

If I had to pick, Void is better than Thin Air, too.

By a nose.

Not intended as a joke or disrespect to Dr. Beck.

Okay I’m lying... the phrase came to mind and I have a sick sense of humor. :)

(Honestly Beck’s recovery, surgeries, and his interviews and thoughts about it all, are amazing and fascinating.)
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There was an Imax crew filming on Everest that same time, their crew assisted in the rescue. Some of that footage is in their movie.

'Into the Void' is a really good story, "would you cut the rope"? The movie recreates the events and has the actual climbers in it. That one dude did not want to die.
 
Bill Watson said:
Documents Shed Light on the Life and Death of Thurman Munson https://nyti.ms/2Ke5jXP?smid=nytcore-ios-share
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I came upon that accident scene on my way home from work (I lived in Canton, OH, as did Munson, Canton's favorite son, and I worked in a marina in Akron, northwest of the crash site). I drove Greensburg road, north perimeter of the airport, daily. The plane was actually blocking Greensburg Road (we were stopped by police several hundred feet away), and we all had to turn around as they hadn't yet closed the road back at the last intersection. I think I thought for a minute it was a bad automobile crash, but then you could see that it was indeed an airplane there. The fire was already out, many cops and firefighters were milling about, the reporters were standing where we were turned around. It wasn't until later that we learned who died in the crash (and I doubt that most of the others on the scene knew immediately).
I only had about 30 hours at the time (and thereafter took a decade+ break as my GF at the time hated airplanes, large and small), but the "real" pilots were saying, "low and slow is a bad way to go". Not having flown a jet I didn't know that you need several seconds to get power if you're at flight idle, as the 150 I flew had instant power, such as it was. I've just looked at some pictures, and it's actually much worse (burned out hulk) than I remember. The scorched area was a bottleneck for months, and the people of Canton were sad they'd lost there home-grown baseball hero. His wife sued Cessna, but the case was dropped (probably settled, just to save the publicity.)
For a while I wondered why his companions didn't drag him out; decades later, I got to sit in a 500 series cockpit, and I then knew that it was impossible.
I've come upon the scene of perhaps a dozen accidents/incidents, due to my habit of hanging around airports [now lost, as none are five minutes away]. All but this one were "fender benders" (including my prop bender, and two gear ups that closed airports while I was in the pattern).
That will likely meet the TLDR criteria for some; I think I'll start selling speed-reading apps.
 
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3393RP said:
. . . . It's been several years since I read the accident report, and after looking at it again today I discovered my error.
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It sounds like you might have found the link to the accident report. Can you post it?

This happened at my home airport - long before I started flying. I thought I had heard or read he had not dropped the gear and the CFI reminded him on final and they started to sink. I did not realize how few hours he had. I know the military pilots are in jets that quickly but our training is very different. Anyway, as Kenny said - he was a home town hero. Very sad.
 
Jim_CAK said:
It sounds like you might have found the link to the accident report. Can you post it?

This happened at my home airport - long before I started flying. I thought I had heard or read he had not dropped the gear and the CFI reminded him on final and they started to sink. I did not realize how few hours he had. I know the military pilots are in jets that quickly but our training is very different. Anyway, as Kenny said - he was a home town hero. Very sad.
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Here's the link: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20041105X01764&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
 
That was the day that I was bringing home my newly acquired AA5, and stopped at Akron for fuel. On the approach we were switched to a different runway with no explanation. It was not until we were back in ROC that we heard the sad news. Oddly, did not hear anything on the radio at the time of the accident.
 
Jim_CAK said:
It sounds like you might have found the link to the accident report. Can you post it?

This happened at my home airport - long before I started flying. I thought I had heard or read he had not dropped the gear and the CFI reminded him on final and they started to sink. I did not realize how few hours he had. I know the military pilots are in jets that quickly but our training is very different. Anyway, as Kenny said - he was a home town hero. Very sad.
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Since you are from around there (I was born in Akron, did my initial training at AKR), have you ever heard the term 'UCLA' used? It sort of describes where CAK lies: "Upper Canton / Lower Akron".
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Since you are from around there (I was born in Akron, did my initial training at AKR), have you ever heard the term 'UCLA' used? It sort of describes where CAK lies: "Upper Canton / Lower Akron".
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I never heard the ‘UCLA’ reference. I am also from Akron and we used to say we were from “LA” (Lower Akron). :)
 
creweite said:
That was the day that I was bringing home my newly acquired AA5, and stopped at Akron for fuel. On the approach we were switched to a different runway with no explanation. It was not until we were back in ROC that we heard the sad news. Oddly, did not hear anything on the radio at the time of the accident.
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ATC isn’t a news reporting agency, the only thing that should be on the radio is the business at hand. Clogging up the frequency with talk of a crash is not a good idea.
 
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