This is the Golden Age of Aviation

I don’t know about “financially smart.” Financing something like an airplane or a boat is not smart in my perception. If financially smart means you have squirreled away enough money to write a check for it then, yeah that’s financially smart.
I learned a long time ago to not finance a depreciating asset. That includes cars. I had one car salesman look at me dumbfounded when I told him that, then he launched into how I was unamerican for having that losing attitude. Turned out that he was the loser in more than one meaning of the word.
 
I learned a long time ago to not finance a depreciating asset. That includes cars. I had one car salesman look at me dumbfounded when I told him that, then he launched into how I was unamerican for having that losing attitude. Turned out that he was the loser in more than one meaning of the word.

To be fair to the jingoist mouth-breathers, it is *economically unpatriotic to not leverage your future labor for consumption today, in a Country beholden to it to the tune of 70% of GDP. I'm with you though, and I have been accosted over it by socioeconomic peers, specifically housing. Eff 'em.

Good, bad or indifferent, promissory note culture is here to stay, until we lose global reserve currency status and the American Empire enters the liquidation state (like the British, Spanish, French and Portuguese before us), ceding global power to the emerging Chinese Empire. I digress on that. Again, in fairness to the majority, we are afforded this relative frugal discretion by virtue of the majority not doing so in present circumstances.
 
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I don’t know about “financially smart.” Financing something like an airplane or a boat is not smart in my perception. If financially smart means you have squirreled away enough money to write a check for it then, yeah that’s financially smart.

Sometimes you can make more on your investments than the interest rate on a loan. I sure wouldn't want to be in the position to where I couldn't sell the airplane or boat immediately at wholesale because I owed too much on it.

Are hangars more in demand now than they were in the past? Is is that because of less hangar supply or more hangar demand? Is that a clue to whether GA is more or less active today than yesterday?

My father restarted flying in 1967, so I have been around GA on and off for 50 years now. Back when he started, hangars were scarce, When he bought a new Skylane in 1971, hangars were scarce. When I started flying in 1977, hangars were scarce. When my father bought his second airplane in 1981, hangars were scarce. Nothing has changed in that respect. One of the factors that is driving up the cost of hangars is that increasingly, the better paying jobs are clustered around a relatively few cities, which drives up the demand for spots in a small number of airports.

IMO general aviation's golden age lasted from 1947 through the mid-80s. After that, flying was less interesting to young people, and thanks to the existence of interstate highways, car travel became an effective way to get somewhere. That we're still flying such old designs doesn't help, and the cost is hard for most people to swallow. Around here, a 40 + year old 172 rents for $150+ per hour. That's not enticing to all that many people.
 
My hangar is about $400 a month and I love having it. Countless barbecues have been held there and it’s a great place to work on my stuff. For many years I lived in a smaller house to make that expenditure possible. Now it is in the noise, or almost, but I think it’s been good value regardless.

My current plane cost $35K, well cared for over decades by a long term owner (I’m the third owner), with at time of purchase about 950 hrs total time. In today’s US you can save that much money on a modest income, and it’s a good idea to do so if you want to be involved in aviation. Save a little extra to cover unexpected costs too. Nice planes are out there and ownership by cash purchase at reasonable cost is the unprecedented opportunity in 2020, not spending borrowed money or renting somebody else’s plane by the hour.

The guys who designed these planes did a very good job for us, did not design disposable crap in the 21st century mode, and I’m happy to be taking advantage of what they did very well.
 
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How much I make on my investments has nothing to do with the airplane I buy. It only had to do with how fast I earned the money that I bought the airplane with. If I can’t write a check for the plane and don’t have plenty for the ongoing expenses then I don’t buy it.

That’s just the way I operate. For others if they are fine with flying a plane they don’t own outright that’s their business, but for me if I don’t own it free and clear then it’s not mine and it means it’s a luxury I can’t afford.
 
I think about airports in my logbook that are no longer there ... San Fernando, Santa Susana, Rancho California, Capistrano, Meadowlark, Lake Havasu Site Six, the old Apple Valley, Henderson (Ojai), Quartz Hill, Evergreen, ... Most of them started out in sparsely populated areas or on the fringe of the suburbs, and they were swallowed up by development as the "fringes" are pushed further and further out. I suppose that's inevitable, since the nation's population has grown by some 52% since I got my PPL in 1968. The population of California has more than doubled in that time.

Rancho California was replaced by French Valley, so it’s not all bad news :)

Orange County is for reasons unknown to me an airport desert today, I don’t really understand how that happened or why.
 
We have far more 60-year old vintage planes to choose from today than there were 60 years ago.
 
If I can’t write a check for the plane and don’t have plenty for the ongoing expenses then I don’t buy it.

That’s just the way I operate. For others if they are fine with flying a plane they don’t own outright that’s their business, but for me if I don’t own it free and clear then it’s not mine and it means it’s a luxury I can’t afford.

We agree ... although I did take a loan against myself (company option) for my first airplane nearly 20 years ago. Next three were paid for when they arrived or bought with money from the sale of the previous aircraft.

I remember the first house the wife & I bought years ago. They said I didn't have bad credit but rather no credit. They said they could not find where I bought things and paid for them over time. I told them I don't operate that way. I buy what I can afford and if I can't afford it I don't need it. He said I couldn't do a home that way and he was correct. But I need a house to live in ... my plane is basically a toy so it has to be paid for when it arrives.
 
The guys who designed these planes did a very good job for us, did not design disposable crap in the 21st century mode, and I’m happy to be taking advantage of what they did very well.

Well, most airplanes undergo a pretty rigorous (and expensive) airworthiness maintenance process. What's a major overhaul on a 172 cost?
 
IMO general aviation's golden age lasted from 1947 through the mid-80s. After that, flying was less interesting to young people, and thanks to the existence of interstate highways, car travel became an effective way to get somewhere. That we're still flying such old designs doesn't help, and the cost is hard for most people to swallow. Around here, a 40 + year old 172 rents for $150+ per hour. That's not enticing to all that many people.
100% !!
 
Getting my PPL in 1990 cost me all in flights, books, supplies, tests... about $3600. 1990 dollars are about half of 2020 dollars according to inflationtool.com. In 1990 there were a lot more airports with active airplanes giving lessons. I paid about $45 and hour for a 172 wet. Now the cheapest 172 around here (if you can find one) is $125. So no not sure today is any better.
 
RE: financing toys and leveraging yourself


I mean.. sure, in principle don't finance things, etc., but life is short (and objectively pretty crappy).. if you have the money coming in and strong prospects for continued, and growing income, I see nothing wrong with squeezing as much joy you can out of life, presently

I'd rather be 65 thinking back on all the fun stuff I did than looking at my balance sheet and just starting to do fun stuff as my health falls apart
 
I'd rather be 65 thinking back on all the fun stuff I did than looking at my balance sheet and just starting to do fun stuff as my health falls apart
All depends on your goals in life. I didn't want to wait till 65 to think back on all the fun stuff while my health declined. I've simply continued the fun while investing and saving wisely. Two of the most important lessons I learned to get everyday Saturday at 52 was understanding compound interest AND not using other peoples money, i.e., loans, to fund my fun. But hey...whatever floats your boat.;)
 
If there's a downside now it seems to be in the area of instruction.

Instruction is a money loser flat out for anybody attempting to make a go of it and be properly “bonded and insured”. It’s been that way since before I started flying, so it’s not any surprise or anything. Just the way the business works. Can maybe make a medium living on it if you make it way more than a typical full-time professional job. Or do like the big clubs and schools and hire those who will be moving on after paying their dues into paying more dues but maybe with dental benefits. LOL

I'll bet the folks who own PA-28's and PA-32's are a little uncomfortable with the way the GA fleet is aging.

The recent Cessna AD for the old 182s ain’t pretty either. But I think most of us getting a $200K discount or more off of something new and modern knew we had inherent maintenance risks. Baked into the prices too if one doesn’t get in a hurry or “fall in love” with an old ass machine.

The history books of tomorrow will call us all "elitist". And future generations will wonder how anyone could ever have been so selfish as to extract oil from the ground, then burn its byproducts in wasteful, inefficient, internal combustion engines, fouling the air and poisoning everyone, for the benefit of a few entitled individuals. Enjoy it now, while its still legal.

Recreational GA is a fly spec on the butt of commercial turbine ops in this regard. We may be seen as eccentric fools by history if anything even really happens from fuel burning on a global scale that humans can’t adapt to readily, but the history books IF that’s even an actual event, will wonder how humans sped a third of the way around the planet for $49.95 and be appalled at Jet-A numbers long before those future generations notice there was on e a country so rich that 80% of recreational aviation happened within it.

It is depressing to browse through Paul Freeman's Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields

I’ve got a number of closed airports in my logbook also, but if I had to be brutally honest, most were built on grant money that was truly just makework federal debt like most roads today, budding out way higher than what was needed, and as the WWII flyers died off which were willing to spend anything and self sacrifice to stay in aviation, they were not truly being utilized as airports so much as airplane storage facilities and BBQ locations. The downside is it pushed neglected airframes outdoors at other local places and now they’re rotten to their core.

Maybe it’s because I was never in the wealthy crowd growing up, but the vast majority of renters and owners I’ve met over the years haven’t been super rich folk either. Most make an above average salary but give up various things to go flying.

Oh sure there’s a small subset who can write a check for a twin and feed it, or a new Cirrus, but they’re usually serious busy people who have exactly the right circumstances and usually deserve their spoils from a hell of a lot of hard work and late nights.

And a few who’ve hit upon a location, student load, pricing, and helpful ownership (whether that’s leasebacks or someone able to write full checks for aircraft) that they can make a reasonable business go of training and rentals, but most are always a couple of months from insolvency. If they can dip their fingers in the student loan 141 financing money, maybe six tops. Usually not.

It’s a bastard of a business. Margins hover around where restaurants live and 80% die. Every rental place in the area has changed hands three times since 1991 when I started flying and I don’t see that changing as a pattern each decade. But it does seem to be as stable as restaurants - always someone new who thinks they’ve cracked the profitability secrets. Those of us who get it, get to fly their fleets and try to take care of them as those who aren’t aware of the numbers beat the living crap out of the equipment. The cycle resets again and we get a new rental fleet, and/or give up and buy our own little slice of fiscal liability. LOL.

Will it continue to repeat? Dunno. But I’ll be dead before the merry go round stops. And the kids all starry eyed three months ago and headed for their first real job got the same slap in the face my generation did and the next. The virus thingy just delayed them by years probably.

The super dedicated or hopelessly addicted will find a way to scratch out hours and make it. Some will bail like me and come back years later for fun after building a career elsewhere. Or personal challenge. I had absolutely no reasonable reason to earn the CFI ratings whatsoever. Huge liability, zero business sense, and nothing but “always wanted to do it and give back”. Could have spent it on a nice kitchen remodel but thankfully the woman of the house knows I’m cranky if I can fly and am not. (I’m much more fine with medically can’t fly than can and not doing it.)

But it’s definitely nice to see PoA revive the ol’ is GA dying debate again. And again. Feels like old times.

Now we need some ketchup on hot dogs to make this revival complete!

And yeah. If my co-owner wasn’t able to fly our little slice of fiscal liability heaven, the airplane would be solidly pickled properly or gone. I refuse to be the guy who destroyed another one via pure neglect. But for now, it flies...

Someday someone else will get to enjoy it if I have any say in it. Only by other owners who kept stuff flying decades before me learning to, was I able to afford it.

Well that and giving up all hope of life insurance while partaking in my hobby if I didn’t buy it when I wasn’t flying at all. LOL. I snuck a little in that doesn’t have any exclusions when that was available long ago, so Karen could finally get that fancy kitchen if I seriously screw the pooch. Haha.

Fiscally, flying recreationally “ain’t never” been worth it. Emotionally, it’s worth every penny. Someone will always need an ole Skylane for their personal mental health program, at least as long as I’m alive, I figure. After that, whatever takes over after PoA shall have to vent their spleens about all the Cirruses cracking plastic and dying. LOL.
 
...Recreational GA is a fly spec on the butt of commercial turbine ops in this regard....

I believe even the modern High-Bypass engine that power the big commercial aircraft are still considered "internal combustion engines". And, I'm also pretty sure that all grades of jet fuel are still refined from crude oil distillates. So, ...

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Well, most airplanes undergo a pretty rigorous (and expensive) airworthiness maintenance process. What's a major overhaul on a 172 cost?

My $35K in 2010 airplane is now 49 years old and is still running well on the original engine build, never overhauled. My last Annual Inspection including sign-off of some additional maintenance work cost $300 plus parts. So I can’t answer your question from experience :D

And, I'm also pretty sure that all grades of jet fuel are still refined from crude oil distillates. So, ...

I prefer AVGAS but regardless love my plane, love what I do with it, respect what it does, how it does it and the system in which it operates. I couldn’t care less about what a mislead autistic juvenile thinks about it, nor about the twisted adult socialists who are tastelessly taking advantage of her. I think their delusional world view should be killed like a rat.
 
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OK...I'll take the counterpoint, for argument's sake. General aviation is a mess. Owning an airplane has never been more out of reach in the 50 years I've been flying. Due to insurance and liability, as well as an infinitely complex set of rules, an autocratic FAA, an exclusionary, restrictive, and incredibly complex medical branch, a poorly aging GA fleet, and a rather extraordinary accident rate, I'd say that General Aviation has never been in worse shape.
Do you have data to support your opinions?

Insurance is not mandatory for a private pilot to fly a plane in the USA. "Liability" is a bogeyman that everyone repeats but nobody takes time to understand and back up with numbers. What liability has prevented you from enjoying flying as much now as you did 50 years ago?

Next up, the infinitely complex set of rules. That phrase expresses a subjective judgment. What rules or complexities have you struggled with now that were not a problem 50 years ago?

The autocratic FAA is another one I'm curious to learn more about. I haven't had any direct run-ins with the FAA. Can you give some data or at least anecdotes about how the FAA is more autocratic now than it was 50 years ago?

The exclusionary, restrictive, and incredibly complex medical branch is another strange claim to my ears. Has it changed in the past 50 years? I have not been flying long enough to ascertain whether things are changing for my own health, much less for the medical requirements to fly. I suppose in 50 years either or both of those might change.

I think the poorly aging GA fleet has been beaten to death in this thread already. I will just say this: I would rather fly my well-maintained 1968 Arrow or 2007 Champ than a claptrap 1968 or 2007 car.

What part of the accident rate do you find extraordinary? What rate would be ordinary? How does it compare with the accident rate 50 years ago?
 
Instruction is a money loser flat out for anybody attempting to make a go of it and be properly “bonded and insured”. It’s been that way since before I started flying, so it’s not any surprise or anything. Just the way the business works. Can maybe make a medium living on it if you make it way more than a typical full-time professional job. Or do like the big clubs and schools and hire those who will be moving on after paying their dues into paying more dues but maybe with dental benefits. LOL



The recent Cessna AD for the old 182s ain’t pretty either. But I think most of us getting a $200K discount or more off of something new and modern knew we had inherent maintenance risks. Baked into the prices too if one doesn’t get in a hurry or “fall in love” with an old ass machine.



Recreational GA is a fly spec on the butt of commercial turbine ops in this regard. We may be seen as eccentric fools by history if anything even really happens from fuel burning on a global scale that humans can’t adapt to readily, but the history books IF that’s even an actual event, will wonder how humans sped a third of the way around the planet for $49.95 and be appalled at Jet-A numbers long before those future generations notice there was on e a country so rich that 80% of recreational aviation happened within it.



I’ve got a number of closed airports in my logbook also, but if I had to be brutally honest, most were built on grant money that was truly just makework federal debt like most roads today, budding out way higher than what was needed, and as the WWII flyers died off which were willing to spend anything and self sacrifice to stay in aviation, they were not truly being utilized as airports so much as airplane storage facilities and BBQ locations. The downside is it pushed neglected airframes outdoors at other local places and now they’re rotten to their core.

Maybe it’s because I was never in the wealthy crowd growing up, but the vast majority of renters and owners I’ve met over the years haven’t been super rich folk either. Most make an above average salary but give up various things to go flying.

Oh sure there’s a small subset who can write a check for a twin and feed it, or a new Cirrus, but they’re usually serious busy people who have exactly the right circumstances and usually deserve their spoils from a hell of a lot of hard work and late nights.

And a few who’ve hit upon a location, student load, pricing, and helpful ownership (whether that’s leasebacks or someone able to write full checks for aircraft) that they can make a reasonable business go of training and rentals, but most are always a couple of months from insolvency. If they can dip their fingers in the student loan 141 financing money, maybe six tops. Usually not.

It’s a bastard of a business. Margins hover around where restaurants live and 80% die. Every rental place in the area has changed hands three times since 1991 when I started flying and I don’t see that changing as a pattern each decade. But it does seem to be as stable as restaurants - always someone new who thinks they’ve cracked the profitability secrets. Those of us who get it, get to fly their fleets and try to take care of them as those who aren’t aware of the numbers beat the living crap out of the equipment. The cycle resets again and we get a new rental fleet, and/or give up and buy our own little slice of fiscal liability. LOL.

Will it continue to repeat? Dunno. But I’ll be dead before the merry go round stops. And the kids all starry eyed three months ago and headed for their first real job got the same slap in the face my generation did and the next. The virus thingy just delayed them by years probably.

The super dedicated or hopelessly addicted will find a way to scratch out hours and make it. Some will bail like me and come back years later for fun after building a career elsewhere. Or personal challenge. I had absolutely no reasonable reason to earn the CFI ratings whatsoever. Huge liability, zero business sense, and nothing but “always wanted to do it and give back”. Could have spent it on a nice kitchen remodel but thankfully the woman of the house knows I’m cranky if I can fly and am not. (I’m much more fine with medically can’t fly than can and not doing it.)

But it’s definitely nice to see PoA revive the ol’ is GA dying debate again. And again. Feels like old times.

Now we need some ketchup on hot dogs to make this revival complete!

And yeah. If my co-owner wasn’t able to fly our little slice of fiscal liability heaven, the airplane would be solidly pickled properly or gone. I refuse to be the guy who destroyed another one via pure neglect. But for now, it flies...

Someday someone else will get to enjoy it if I have any say in it. Only by other owners who kept stuff flying decades before me learning to, was I able to afford it.

Well that and giving up all hope of life insurance while partaking in my hobby if I didn’t buy it when I wasn’t flying at all. LOL. I snuck a little in that doesn’t have any exclusions when that was available long ago, so Karen could finally get that fancy kitchen if I seriously screw the pooch. Haha.

Fiscally, flying recreationally “ain’t never” been worth it. Emotionally, it’s worth every penny. Someone will always need an ole Skylane for their personal mental health program, at least as long as I’m alive, I figure. After that, whatever takes over after PoA shall have to vent their spleens about all the Cirruses cracking plastic and dying. LOL.
But it could change with guaranteed basic income, Nate! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::)
 
Should we back up and start here.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sometimes dubbed the Golden Age of Aviation,[1] the period in the history of aviation between the end of World War I (1918) and the beginning of World War II (1939) was characterised by a progressive change from the slow wood-and-fabric biplanes of World War I to fast, streamlined metal monoplanes, creating a revolution in both commercial and military aviation. By the outbreak of World War II in 1939 the biplane was all but obsolete. This revolution was made possible by the continuing development of lightweight aero engines of increasing power. The jet engine also began development during the 1930s but would not see operational use until later.

During this period civil aviation became widespread and many daring and dramatic feats took place such as round-the-world flights, air races and barnstorming displays.[2] Many commercial airlines were started during this period. Long-distance flights for the luxury traveller became possible for the first time; the early services used airships but, after the Hindenburg disaster, airships fell out of use and the flying boat came to dominate.
 
Well, most airplanes undergo a pretty rigorous (and expensive) airworthiness maintenance process. What's a major overhaul on a 172 cost?

A lot less than a new one.
 
Folks complain about the cost of GA, and how expensive it is compared to yesteryear. I call BS on all of it. Yes, a brand new airplane is far more expensive than they were in yesteryear. But the pilots of yesteryear didn't have access to the vintage fleet we do. Purchasing a pre owned vintage aircraft is far less expensive than a new airplane of yesteryear, and the ownership experience is likely to be about as expensive. You can purchase a preowned vehicle, restore it to like new condition and put in a glass panel (not available to the pilots of yesteryear) and have spent proportionately about what a new airplane cost in days gone by.

This is the Golden Age of Aviation, we're just too stupid to realize it.

:yeahthat:

After a couple decades of renting I bought my first airplane in the 1990s. A well worn 1961 Cherokee 160, serial #30 off the new Vero Beach line. Paid about what a good used Toyota Corolla cost back then. Original "shotgun" panel, faded interior but good looking paint...from 300 yards away, LOL. Flew it everywhere including two 2400 nm round trips to Oshkosh.

With the exception of a few apparently desirable models (172, 180, 182, 185, Tigers, A-36 Bo...) it's actually quite surprising how much airplane one can get for the money these days. $150 oil and the 2008/09 financial crisis decimated light GA. It's never really fully recovered. In the past 3 years we've added two good Seneca IIs to our club fleet of 15 airplanes at prices that were unthinkable a decade earlier.

One example, last year a friend of mine with a lot of Tiger time (and has always wanted to own one) bought a very nice 1966 M20C for less than a clapped out Tiger. He got a lot of airplane for the $ considering what he's able to do with it.
 
If renting or owning airplanes 40 to 60 years old, with spotty maintenance and penciled annuals with engine technology from the 1940’s is considered “the golden age”, then I guess you are there. o_O
 
If renting or owning airplanes 40 to 60 years old, with spotty maintenance and penciled annuals with engine technology from the 1940’s is considered “the golden age”, then I guess you are there. o_O
Don't forget torn and stained upholstery, and cracked glare shields and panels.;)
 
This seems be an attack term on people who politcaly lean to the right.

How about not being "fair" to those who you disagree with and just making your point?

IBTL / Reporting my own post

No. I din't imply; you inferred. That's your inflection, not mine.

The epithet was made in the context of the dealer who sought to seek licensing ownership over what constitutes patriotic behavior, to the poster who shared his anecdote. Jingoists are characteristically known for the appeal to these types of True Scotsman fallacies, and the example provided by the poster was textbook example of this. None of it deals with presumptions of political leaning. YOU are derailing the conversation with ascribing that quality to my writing. Perhaps it's a typical projection of feeling alluded to by proxy by shared traits within a social demographic that leads you to that inductive fallacy. I don't care, sounds like a personal insecurity that has nothing to do with my comments.

I recognize linguistics can be a bit high-brow for this medium, but I have to challenge your inductive fallacy for the sake of keeping the thread apolitical. If you're threatened by this level of dialectics, by all means cry "politics!" and shut the conversation down. It's all your own doing though. Read slower next time.
 
No. I din't imply; you inferred. That's your inflection, not mine.

The epithet was made in the context of the dealer who sought to seek licensing ownership over what constitutes patriotic behavior, to the poster who shared his anecdote. Jingoists are characteristically known for the appeal to these types of True Scotsman fallacies, and the example provided by the poster was textbook example of this. None of it deals with presumptions of political leaning. YOU are derailing the conversation with ascribing that quality to my writing. Perhaps it's a typical projection of feeling alluded to by proxy by shared traits within a social demographic that leads you to that inductive fallacy. I don't care, sounds like a personal insecurity that has nothing to do with my comments.

I recognize linguistics can be a bit high-brow for this medium, but I have to challenge your inductive fallacy for the sake of keeping the thread apolitical. If you're threatened by this level of dialectics, by all means cry "politics!" and shut the conversation down. It's all your own doing though. Read slower next time.

jin·go·is·tic
/ˈˌjiNGɡōˈistik/
Learn to pronounce

adjective
DEROGATORY
  1. characterized by extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
    "jingoistic propaganda"
Wow.,, what's wrong with that?

mouth-breath·er
/ˈmouTHˌ brēT͟Hər/

noun
INFORMAL
  1. a stupid person.
Wow.

Pretty hard to miss your point.

What else you got?

Soon I can say "those _____ and ____" with, "Not that there's anything wrong with that" and it's all cool for school, right? You ____ and ___.
 
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I started in 1969, it was eight bucks an hour for a J3 and three for the instructor. I was fifteen years old and struggled mightily to come up with that kind of dough. It's always been expensive. The worst I've seen in fifty odd years was probably around 1980 to 1983 when, for whatever reason, GA seemed like it was maybe gonna die. But I'll tell you one thing, we here in the good ol' USof A got no right to complain because what we have, for all intents and purposes, does not exist anywhere else in the world. I mean, where else can you hop in an airplane, that maybe you even built yourself, and fly three thousand miles without anybody's permission (except maybe the wife's (or husband))
 
But I'll tell you one thing, we here in the good ol' USof A got no right to complain because what we have, for all intents and purposes, does not exist anywhere else in the world. I mean, where else can you hop in an airplane, that maybe you even built yourself, and fly three thousand miles without anybody's permission (except maybe the wife's (or husband))

:yeahthat:
 
If renting or owning airplanes 40 to 60 years old, with spotty maintenance and penciled annuals with engine technology from the 1940’s is considered “the golden age”, then I guess you are there. o_O
Don't forget torn and stained upholstery, and cracked glare shields and panels.;)

What kind of rat traps are you flying, because that doesnt match what I'm flying.
 
I've got a few closed airports in my logbook, but they were all small airports enveloped by development that were replaced with big better facilities just a few miles away, including my home town and my college alma mater airport.
 
A few hundred dollars to protect a hundred thousand dollar asset that costs thousands to repair even minor damage. The combination of the cost of repairs on these old planes and the age of the plane makes hangars a better value today

Hell, you can paint a plane every three years for the $500 per month hangar cost
 
Hell, you can paint a plane every three years for the $500 per month hangar cost

And more to your point, such exigence wouldn't be necessary at that short of an interval in the first place.
 
Financing something like an airplane or a boat is not smart in my perception
I learned a long time ago to not finance a depreciating asset. That includes cars.
Why not?
Let's say I have $100K sitting in the bank. Today you can get a zero percent finance for a car.. or something strikingly low, 1-2%.. why would I write a check for $30K when I can put $5K down and invest the other $95K.. probably earn 4%-12%, and spend only $300/mo for that car.. 4%-12% on $95K is better than 4%-12% on $70K

Why do people have anxiety over "owing money"? We're no longer in the dark ages. If you have some value-added skill set, and an IQ over like 90.. you are employable and can earn a decent income.

If financially smart means you have squirreled away enough money to write a check for it then, yeah that’s financially smart
Sure.. but even then, as noted above.. depending on what kind of financing you get you might still be better off spending less money up front, keeping more money saved, and earning money on the money you didn't spend. I actually see very little argument for buying big things in cash, you eliminate the longer term earning potential of your money

*disclaimer.. yeah, always pay your CC bill in full, etc. I'm talking about financing that yacht, plane, house, second house, etc.


What kind of rat traps are you flying, because that doesnt match what I'm flying
Privately owned planes, sure.. but walk down to any flight school and take a look at the absolute TRASH that they have on the flight line. $160 an hour to fly something with oil all over the belly, a cracked and sunbleached glareshield, a handful of permanently inop'd gauges.. a headliner that's peeling off.. plastic paneling that's cracked.. a leading edge that looks like it was flown through a Saharan dust storm, a Cessna air vent that falls out of the tube if you try to adjust it, and the permanent smell of sweat and farts in the upholstery.. with an engine that *might* start if you primed it, accelerator pumped it (that's what a rocket scientist said to do) just the right way. Oh, and the PTT is tricky, you have to hold it just right, and just hard enough so you drive a hole into your finger in order for ATC to hear you. Total crap.
 
I've never seen a plane like described. You all should go to better flight schools if the planes look like that. ;)

I guess I don't really go to a flight school, though. I pay $62/dry to fly the plane owned by the FBO. AVgas is only 3.88, too, so not bad. Definitely older, but for some 20ish years older than my car, it is in nice shape! The instruments all work, the engine starts right up (and keeps its oil to itself!), the paint job is only a couple years old, and the upholstery isn't bad either. The leading edge looks like it flew through the plague of flies, though...
 
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