Thinking of downsizing to a fun 2 seater

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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El Conquistador
The daughter has left the roost. I am thinking of selling the Arrow and moving to something else. Something fun, economical but still capable for some cross country work. One of the RV's comes to mind, of course. Don't have the money for RV-10 , but The RV-14 is interesting but I kinda blanch at the pricetag. I know that it is new and all. Room for luggage and a 35 pound dog would be great.
Open to other ideas. What do Sling-4s run$
 
Morgan3820 said:
The daughter has left the roost. I am thinking of selling the Arrow and moving to something else. Something fun, economical but still capable for some cross country work. One of the RV's comes to mind, of course. Don't have the money for RV-10 , but The RV-14 is interesting but I kinda blanch at the pricetag. I know that it is new and all. Room for luggage and a 35 pound dog would be great.
Open to other ideas. What do Sling-4s run$
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Thinking similar. Keep looking at the Bushcat...


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Look at rv6’s same performance, little less room, better handling, cheaper cost.
 
I absolutely love my Flight Design CTSW. Fuel cost doesn’t even factor in. Just replaced all 8 spark plugs for under $25. The parachute, the ability to fly slow or fast (120 kits), huge range, auto or av gas, modern avionics, GPS driven auto pilot, comfortable seats, lots of room up front, visibility,.... I could go on and on.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The daughter has left the roost. I am thinking of selling the Arrow and moving to something else. Something fun, economical but still capable for some cross country work. One of the RV's comes to mind, of course. Don't have the money for RV-10 , but The RV-14 is interesting but I kinda blanch at the pricetag. I know that it is new and all. Room for luggage and a 35 pound dog would be great.
Open to other ideas. What do Sling-4s run$
Click to expand...

What's the budget and how fast do you want to go? Is there a significant other who'll be accompanying you and the dog?
 
2+pet or 1+pet? I dunno about a dog mission with two adults in a 2-seat RV though. Forget the tandem seat ones for sure. Personally I'd prefer a bit more maneuvering room for handling what essentially is a toddler in volume and weight, plus its associated blankets/et al. Unless it's just you and the dog, this mission still requires Arrow like volumetrics. That means backseat plus baggage comparment. No affordable EAB options in that category I'm afraid, compared to the Arrow.
 
You might get lucky and find a nice Falco F-8L, which has an optional seat for a child (90lbs) in the baggage compartment behind the front seats. Might work for a dog too.
 
Open to other ideas. What do Sling-4s run

Slightly less than an rv-10. They want more for a quick build kit than a 10. 78k. No engine. No avionics. But the build time is quicker. There's one on controller in Mexico listed for 195k.

Other ideas... Bonanza. Duh!
 
kyleb said:
What's the budget and how fast do you want to go? Is there a significant other who'll be accompanying you and the dog?
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$100K budget. Significant other, yes. Dog, I say yes but we don't take it along with us now, so...
 
Morgan3820 said:
$100K budget. Significant other, yes. Dog, I say yes but we don't take it along with us now, so...
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How fast you wanna go? If you wanna go 115 mph, a C-172 or even a Tri-Pacer. A little more speed and money and you're talking 180 HP Cardinal.

If you wanna get sporty, you can find RV 6's, 7's, and 9's for under $100K (probably not with a $50K panel, though), but loading a dog would be a pain.
 
Yeah, keep the dog home. Get 2 seater RV. Profit.

At least you can kennel the former legally. Can't do that with the kid... *checks six nervously to ensure the wife don't catch me typing this* :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Yeah, keep the dog home. Get 2 seater RV. Profit.

At least you can kennel the former legally. Can't do that with the kid... *checks six nervously to ensure the wife don't catch me typing this* :D
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Yeah, thinking leave the dog home like we do now. We have an outstanding dog sitter. We use the plane for long weekend trips. The RV would allow a longer trip radius plus just being more fun over all.

Question: What are insurance costs with EABs?
 
kyleb said:
How fast you wanna go? If you wanna go 115 mph, a C-172 or even a Tri-Pacer. A little more speed and money and you're talking 180 HP Cardinal.

If you wanna get sporty, you can find RV 6's, 7's, and 9's for under $100K (probably not with a $50K panel, though), but loading a dog would be a pain.
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Going from an Arrow to a tri-pacer? I would just keep the Arrow. Nothing against Tri-pacers.
 
gsengle said:
Thinking similar. Keep looking at the Bushcat...
Click to expand...

Wife already said she would not fly with me, and son is not flying with me either, so I'm solo. That drove my decision to buy a Sportcruiser (which I love.) The Bushcat is a great value and while not fast, is pretty versatile.
 
Did I mention that I have a nice workshop and a retired AI to help with any build?
 
rtk11 said:
Wife already said she would not fly with me, and son is not flying with me either, so I'm solo. That drove my decision to buy a Sportcruiser (which I love.) The Bushcat is a great value and while not fast, is pretty versatile.
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Friends like to fly..
 
Morgan3820 said:
Question: What are insurance costs with EABs?
Click to expand...

In the ball park to spam cans. Higher than trikes, lower than reverse-shopping cart geared ones. I was quoted about $200-400 bucks more for the same sub-limits and the same hull value as the arrow. Considering it's a fixed gear trike, it's objectively higher than the arrow on an apples to apples basis, but not a show stopper for me.

Not all EABs are created equal though. Velocities and Lancairs the quotes were stupid. As in, 4 banger light twin comparable. These quotes were all for zero time in make/model, ATP .mil pointy nose hours pilot quoted. It goes lower for folks with more make/model time, though talking with @Velocity173 ,it doesn't seem the discount is of consequence. Long story short, the RV trikes are on the cheaper side for insurance on the EAB side, when normalizing hull value.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The daughter has left the roost. I am thinking of selling the Arrow and moving to something else. Something fun, economical but still capable for some cross country work. One of the RV's comes to mind, of course. Don't have the money for RV-10 , but The RV-14 is interesting but I kinda blanch at the pricetag. I know that it is new and all. Room for luggage and a 35 pound dog would be great.
Open to other ideas. What do Sling-4s run$
Click to expand...
RV-7A or RV-9A. Probably be in the $100,000 to $140,000 range depending on engine, avionics. If you prefer tail dragger, look at the non-A versions. A little less room than the RV-14. Very economical to operate and maintain. Passenger, luggage, and a dog will be a stretch.
 
Which itch is the Arrow not scratching for you? What kind of fun are you unable to enjoy with it? The answer to that is going to decide which plane you really should get next, whether it’s an A36 or an F33. :)

I’m building an RV-14 because my Arrow couldn’t go upside-down and I wanted to go faster as long as I was logging mostly solo time. I still think it’s a good fit, but you definitely can’t build a plane if you lack the special breed of patience it requires. Buying an RV-7 or RV-9 might be a good fit. But don’t overlook the Arrow you already have. I know it to be a fun and capable traveling airplane.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Question: What are insurance costs with EABs?
Click to expand...
hindsight2020 said:
Not all EABs are created equal though. Velocities and Lancairs the quotes were stupid. As in, 4 banger light twin comparable. These quotes were all for zero time in make/model, ATP .mil pointy nose hours pilot quoted.
Click to expand...
Lancairs like mine are in the 4-5k range. RV's like we had were in the 1.5k range.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Question: What are insurance costs with EABs?
Click to expand...

I've got about 1600 hours, 1200 of those in the RV-6. PPSEL.

My insurance had crept down to <$800yr for full coverage on a $55K airframe.. This year it (and the rest of the GA fleet) saw a bump. I just renewed at $1027/yr.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Question: What are insurance costs with EABs?
Click to expand...

My RV-9A costs me $1500/year on a $100,000 airframe. That included naming my buddy, who was also my CFI/transition instructor, as a named insured. They wanted 2 hours transition training.
 
Similar story here. I downsized from a 260C Comanche to a Grumman AA1A. It's a blast for me +1. There is room for a small dog in the back but everybody would have to be pretty small for W&B. Not a traveling plane, but a fun way to play. Much simpler. Quite fun.
 
jbarrass said:
Similar story here. I downsized from a 260C Comanche to a Grumman AA1A. It's a blast for me +1. There is room for a small dog in the back but everybody would have to be pretty small for W&B. Not a traveling plane, but a fun way to play. Much simpler. Quite fun.
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The AA-1's are fun. But not particularly fast. And if you get one with a -290 or -320 STC, the heavier engine turns the airplane into one that is VERY limited on useful load.

It all goes back to what you want out of the airplane.
 
Doctor Bob said:
I absolutely love my Flight Design CTSW. Fuel cost doesn’t even factor in. Just replaced all 8 spark plugs for under $25. The parachute, the ability to fly slow or fast (120 kits), huge range, auto or av gas, modern avionics, GPS driven auto pilot, comfortable seats, lots of room up front, visibility,.... I could go on and on.
Click to expand...

Can you go on? Not the OP but I would like to hear more.
 
iamtheari said:
Which itch is the Arrow not scratching for you? What kind of fun are you unable to enjoy with it? The answer to that is going to decide which plane you really should get next, whether it’s an A36 or an F33. :)

I’m building an RV-14 because my Arrow couldn’t go upside-down and I wanted to go faster as long as I was logging mostly solo time. I still think it’s a good fit, but you definitely can’t build a plane if you lack the special breed of patience it requires. Buying an RV-7 or RV-9 might be a good fit. But don’t overlook the Arrow you already have. I know it to be a fun and capable traveling airplane.
Click to expand...
I want to take advantage of the fact that I don’t need a back seat anymore. The Arrow is fine but it is kind of like having a Ford Taurus. It does the job, but...I guess I also have the wantanews. I have 0-15 useful years left. Don’t want any regrets. But, the analysis may show keeping the Arrow to be the better idea.
 
My AI has a Grumman A1C Lynx with an 0-320. He can cruise around 130-135 Kts and it has side by side seating with decent baggage room and at least 22 gallons of fuel. Not sure about the fuel range but I tend to think anything over 2-2.5 hours exceeds my bladder range anyway.
 
I’m assuming removing the back seat of the Arrow wouldn’t scratch the itch... it would put you in the Utility category I think.
 
I like the look of Bristell aircraft but until those lottery numbers align I'll be seen in my Corvair powered Sonex. These might be out of your budget range also.

Some fly them IFR as the plane can be equipped to do so as long as the pilot is rated. Flying Light Sport can save a lot of money. I'm not crazy about the only engine choice. The Rotax are extremely reliable but the high RPM takes some getting used to. Still these aircraft do very well with speed (considering), range, payload, and ramp appeal.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...l=BRISTELL&listing_id=2388622&s-type=aircraft

https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for-sale/specifications?specid=1370
 
Sounds like you want an airplane that does what the Arrow does, but different.

You didn't mention acrobatics, higher speed, etc. The C182 comes to mind, but they are pricy now a days. Tiger could be sportier than an Arrow, but those are hard to find and pricy as well.

You'll pay a price for selling and buying in commission, etc. Perhaps make your current Arrow "new" by taking that money and upgrading the interior, something in the panel, etc.
 
TheFB said:
I’m assuming removing the back seat of the Arrow wouldn’t scratch the itch... it would put you in the Utility category I think.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s allowed in any of the Arrows.
 
I really like the Arion LS-1 Lighting.
Superior aircraft, flies like it's on rails, Vne of 180kts.
 
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