Thinking About a Boat

Ted DuPuis said:
We have both enjoyed sailing when we've done it, albeit a limited experience and strictly pleasure vs. pleasure/transport. When I spent a week and a half on the Lady Maryland, she was a fully functional schooner, but we did have a few times when we ran the diesels to meet the schedule.

On the fuel being the cheapest thing you buy for the boat, that's proven true so far. Yesterday I topped off the boat and it took 40 gallons, which means that's how much we burned last year for 6-8 times out on the lake. About $110 in the fuel at today's prices. In that same period, we've spent money either for the boat or to support boating on:

- new batteries
- air springs for the truck so it can tow the boat better
- life jackets
- coolers
- marine grease
- brake fluid for the surge brakes
- title/registration fees
- new cover
- new propeller on the way
- probably $150 in fuel in the truck to tow the boat back and forth to the lake
- LED lights for the cabin for better brightness and less heat

And on the list for this year:

- expecting to have to redo/upgrade the surge brakes on the trailer
- redo the cushions in the cuddy cabin
- redo the captain's chair (the vinyl is in pretty sorry shape)

And that all assumes that nothing breaks on it.

So far that's been about $1500 spent (not including purchase price), with fuel being around 6% of total cost.

The 310 isn't dissimilar in the sense that dry costs outweigh fuel costs, but on the 310 it's about 3:2 vs 15:1.

Obviously, the dynamic would be different if we were truly using this to travel at about 3 MPG. The other day it looked like I might have to go to Boston for work, so we were joking we could go down to the Ohio river, take it to the Mississippi, go to the Gulf, around Florida, and up to Boston. That'd probably take something around 1200 gallons one way.
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What you are describing are the startup cost of a project boat.
 
weilke said:
What you are describing are the startup cost of a project boat.
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True, and assuming we still have it in 5 years it will be interesting to see what the ratios are then.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, doc, I'm looking at the discs and thinking that on both axles is the way to go. More money, but I like good brakes. If I was still driving my Dodge which had excellent brakes, it would be different.

4 wheel discs with a new surge master is probably the way to go. Figure I can clean these lines or just do new of those too? I'm figuring shotgun it and do new everything.
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Gosh I don't know about the lines. I guess if you are doing the master and the wheel, might as well go with all new hyd system. The lines are cheap, but they take a while to string. You'll need the four flex lines and the Tee splitter. Usually discs are fine on one axle, but 4 is good too.
 
docmirror said:
Gosh I don't know about the lines. I guess if you are doing the master and the wheel, might as well go with all new hyd system. The lines are cheap, but they take a while to string. You'll need the four flex lines and the Tee splitter. Usually discs are fine on one axle, but 4 is good too.
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Problem on the line is part of it goes through the frame. I'll look around at what's available. When I had an open car trailer, I got electric drums on all 4 wheels and it worked very well. Hydraulic does complicate things. I'll look around at what's available and make a decision. Given the worthless brakes on the Avalanche, I tend to think more is better.
 
It's not as clean but you can use brake line clips and clip it to the inside of the frame rail. Do a google search for brake line clip. I wouldn't try to run it down the inside unless you have a couple people to help string it. You can tie a wire to one end and feed it out, then tid the wire to the new one and feed it through. It's a pain, but can be done with 2 people. I would just run it down the inside frame rail with clips.
 
That's my thought as well. Inside the frame is clean and tidy, but virtually impossible to replicate. Of course, I don't have brake line flare tools so I'll need those as well. Sigh...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's my thought as well. Inside the frame is clean and tidy, but virtually impossible to replicate. Of course, I don't have brake line flare tools so I'll need those as well. Sigh...
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Geez Ted..... as a vehicle service tech in a previous life... I would have bet you had at least three of those in your toolbox.....:redface::redface::redface::rolleyes2:
 
N801BH said:
Geez Ted..... as a vehicle service tech in a previous life... I would have bet you had at least three of those in your toolbox.....:redface::redface::redface::rolleyes2:
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We actually very rarely needed to do anything with flare tools, despite working on Jaguars (aka rust buckets).
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We actually very rarely needed to do anything with flare tools, despite working on Jaguars (aka rust buckets).
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That was my thoughts exactly....

Maybe I am living in the past ( yeah, I am).... I thought a decent flaring tool cost about the same as the fuel you would burn in the 310 taxiing to take off???:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
That was my thoughts exactly....

Maybe I am living in the past ( yeah, I am).... I thought a decent flaring tool cost about the same as the fuel you would burn in the 310 taxiing to take off???:dunno:
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You're correct, they aren't expensive, the gas for driving to Harbor Freight will probably cost me more than the tool. Well, maybe not since there's one only a few miles from my office. I don't buy tools until I need them and don't otherwise have them available. At the Jag shop the couple of times they were needed I was able to borrow them from one of the older mechanics.
 
This is what I'm thinking about:

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Titan/T4843200.html

For $650 I get everything I need - disc brakes for both axles, bunch of hard lines and flex lines, the actuator. I'm sure I'll end up needing to buy a few more things since that's how it goes, but that should get me enough of the way there to only need one or two trips to the auto parts store to get it finished.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is what I'm thinking about:

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Titan/T4843200.html

For $650 I get everything I need - disc brakes for both axles, bunch of hard lines and flex lines, the actuator. I'm sure I'll end up needing to buy a few more things since that's how it goes, but that should get me enough of the way there to only need one or two trips to the auto parts store to get it finished.
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WOW....

4 Wheel disc set up...... I would have thought the cost was 2-3 times that...:yes:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is what I'm thinking about:

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Titan/T4843200.html

For $650 I get everything I need - disc brakes for both axles, bunch of hard lines and flex lines, the actuator. I'm sure I'll end up needing to buy a few more things since that's how it goes, but that should get me enough of the way there to only need one or two trips to the auto parts store to get it finished.
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Two things on that kit. First, since you'll have four wheel brakes, the reverse lock-out is almost a requirement. This inhibits the surge function when you are backing up a hill, or even on some level areas where the brakes will bind the trailer when in reverse.

Next, it has the breakaway feature in case of a detachment from the tow vehicle. Hopefully you'll never need that but it's good to know it's there.

Make sure the bolt pattern fits your current wheel. They have other bolt patterns you can request if needed. Of course, you can do things a lot cheaper by just replacing your hyd stuff and live with what you have. This kit will last you the life of the boat if you operate in fresh water.

When you launch the boat, and before parking your rig, run it quick for a few seconds then hit the brakes to scuff the water off the disk. Same thing when you haul-out, before getting on the highway, hit the brakes rather quick and put some scuff on the disks to knock the water off. Then you won't have any fade if you need them. Once installed be careful on your first trip, they will tend to lock if you hit them abruptly, there is no ABS on this stuff.

<edit; ask where it's made.>
 
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Surge brakes would drive me nuts after having pulled a lot of stuff with electrics. I know in this application they have their purpose, but have you priced electrics, Ted?

You mentioned something about having to add a brake controller to the Avalanche. That's an absolute no brainer. It has a connector in the fuse panel under the left side driver's kick panel area and a nice steel bar across there to drill a couple of holes in. You buy the controller (< $100 for the full whiz bang accelerometer-based self-leveling progressive variety), mount it at any angle on the right side metal and route a cable to that connector and plug it in, and you're done, if you have the factory towing hitch receiver and seven pin factory RV plug in the back. If you don't have those, yeah... You have to either route some wiring and add the RV style connector or get the factory kit that simply plugs into the existing wiring harness and bolts onto the rear bumper.

The above is my experience with my Yukon which for those items is essentially the same truck. It's ridiculously cheap and easy to add the controller if you already have the factory towing package. I did.

The folks on various GM Forums who've added the rear wiring have said they didn't like the price of the factory harness but it was also brain dead simple to install. GM made it all modular by that point. Plug in connectors to others already there and it's done, for both the controller and the rear seven pin RV connector.
 
Nate, I have lots of experience with electric brakes and if it wasn't a boat that's what I'd do. But since it is a boat, the norm is either surge or an electric actuator for the surge brakes. That would double the cost of the kit I'm looking at.

I've done brake controllers in half a dozen trucks, that's easy. I'd be all for full electric if that made sense.
 
One of the reviews says it uses a non-standard inner bearing race, cup and roller. That might irritate me enough to get the correct standard trailer size bearing, cup and race. Or carry a spare set. I've had to pound a trailer bearing in and out on the side of a deserted road before and it was not fun at all.
 
docmirror said:
One of the reviews says it uses a non-standard inner bearing race, cup and roller. That might irritate me enough to get the correct standard trailer size bearing, cup and race. Or carry a spare set. I've had to pound a trailer bearing in and out on the side of a deserted road before and it was not fun at all.
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"We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert..."
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is what I'm thinking about:

http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Titan/T4843200.html

For $650 I get everything I need - disc brakes for both axles, bunch of hard lines and flex lines, the actuator. I'm sure I'll end up needing to buy a few more things since that's how it goes, but that should get me enough of the way there to only need one or two trips to the auto parts store to get it finished.
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If you have not already, pull a hub off and make sure your spindles are 1 3/8" for the inner brg and 1 1/16" for the outer brg. This kit also needs the brake flange to be 4 bolt.
 
kgruber said:
Forget your surge brakes, they will NEVER work correctly after being in the water for the first time. Worst brake system ever devised.
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(After about 30 pages)

I repeat the recommendation. Fix them now and then fix them every year hereafter. They will always be a rusted hunk of junk.

Your truck will stop you just fine, just like ALL the other truck/trailer combos with surge brakes.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Nate, I have lots of experience with electric brakes and if it wasn't a boat that's what I'd do. But since it is a boat, the norm is either surge or an electric actuator for the surge brakes. That would double the cost of the kit I'm looking at.



I've done brake controllers in half a dozen trucks, that's easy. I'd be all for full electric if that made sense.
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Fair enough. You said it was about having to add a controller, but I suspected that wasn't the real reason you were rebuilding the surge brakes. Kinda thought it was weird. ;)
 
So we're getting ready to redo the cushions in the cuddy cabin on the boat. We already got a fabric we like and ordered it. Now we're looking at the padding for the cushion and I found these on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-Cu...e=UTF8&qid=1431978021&sr=8-1&keywords=3"+foam

http://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-Fo...e=UTF8&qid=1431978021&sr=8-3&keywords=3"+foam

It doesn't look like there's much of a difference (33 lb vs 35 lb compression), both say good for boats. Does anyone have another suggestion? We want to put new foam in since the foam in there is original with the boat and very old.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
So we're getting ready to redo the cushions in the cuddy cabin on the boat. We already got a fabric we like and ordered it. Now we're looking at the padding for the cushion and I found these on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-Cu...e=UTF8&qid=1431978021&sr=8-1&keywords=3"+foam

http://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-Fo...e=UTF8&qid=1431978021&sr=8-3&keywords=3"+foam

It doesn't look like there's much of a difference (33 lb vs 35 lb compression), both say good for boats. Does anyone have another suggestion? We want to put new foam in since the foam in there is original with the boat and very old.
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Are your cushions considered a floatation device or just creature comfort.:dunno::dunno:
 
Just for comfort. They cannot be used as flotation, or a PFD.

I don't know squat about foam, so no help there but make sure you have the material coated with a water repellent.
 
N801BH said:
Are your cushions considered a floatation device or just creature comfort.:dunno::dunno:
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Comfort only. PFDs are also required for each person on the boat, and are kept in a separate area. But good question!
 
docmirror said:
Just for comfort. They cannot be used as flotation, or a PFD.

I don't know squat about foam, so no help there but make sure you have the material coated with a water repellent.
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Yes, that's the plan.
 
Filled up the boat today after 9 hours on the hobbs today, 22 gallons. Much lower than I expected, although most of our running has just been low-power putting around. Then put another few hours on it today and this time I got to have a prop strike. Fortunately, easy fix with channel locks and some sandpaper to get the sharp edges. :)

Got the very 80s vinyl racing stripes almost completely removed from the boat, which makes it look much better and also much more modern. The teak has also polished up nicely and now the boat really is aesthetically coming together. It didn't look bad before (at least I don't think so, ask Jesse his opinion), but these details have gone a long way. We're also going to start on redoing the cabin cushions after we finish getting our use out of it this weekend.

Questions:

Now comes the paint. The majority of it is off-white and looks fine overall, but the painted blue parts across the top are looking pretty crazed from the sun after 28 years. Is there a recommended polish that helps with this? Maybe buffing it? Just wondering.

I also see some people spraying their boat with some sort of cleaner and then wiping it off after getting out of the lake. This seems like a good idea since, when up close or when I touch it, it does feel dirty and there are water spots. Any recommendations on this?
 
22 gallons, that's amazing! here is one of my daughters describing how much fuel we use for a day of hard skiing

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Jeff, there was nothing anywhere close to skiing occurring. And if anyone had tried, they would've sank. :)

Thanks for the 3M recommendation - any others?
 
Ted,

In my experience with glass boats, it's colored gelcoat. The previous recommendation will work well. use a good buffer, and take your time
 
Rebuilt the carbs, and that didn't help matters. After a few minutes of running it would lose power again.

Finally figured out the middle cylinder coil was flaky. Replaced that and the 75 Johnson ran perfect this evening.
 
Must be a time for ignition problems. The Mercruiser 350 was cutting out at random. Loose ignition wire on the switch.

But in looking at it, the ignition coil is really old, and at least the coil wire is in bad shape. Water underneath it. So I'm going to order some MSD components. It does seem like the ignition on it is weak.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Must be a time for ignition problems. The Mercruiser 350 was cutting out at random. Loose ignition wire on the switch.

But in looking at it, the ignition coil is really old, and at least the coil wire is in bad shape. Water underneath it. So I'm going to order some MSD components. It does seem like the ignition on it is weak.
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Smart man.....:thumbsup:
 
I've found that in the aftermarket ignition world you have MSD, and crap. That's about it. :)

I'm debating whether to do a full tune-up now. Probably will.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've found that in the aftermarket ignition world you have MSD, and crap. That's about it. :)

I'm debating whether to do a full tune-up now. Probably will.
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another alternative, put in fuel injection off a similar-year chevy pickup, and also use the truck's ecm-controlled distributor. It really makes for easy starting and nice clean idling.
 

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Jeff, I was thinking about fuel injection as well since Laurie has had issues starting the boat. So I guess that answers my question about what you did for ignition - you just threw in the truck distributor.

The boat has the "Thunderbolt" ignition on it right now, which I think is basically a GM HEI. Need to price out what it'd be to buy the appropriate TBI fuel/ignition bits.
 
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