Thinking About a Boat

SoonerAviator said:
It's the old AQ drive, so I don't consider it any better/worse than the Merc units. At least it's not the dreaded L-drive that Bayliner shoved in a lot of those boats. It's not a terrible boat, but I bet the thing has rotted transom/floors. Can't do too much bad for only $500, but I'd definitely water test the thing to uncover any "gotchas". As with most things, you get what you pay for, and $500 isn't paying for much in the boating world. I'd go in expecting it to be worth nothing but the trailer and move on from there.
Click to expand...

The only thing I ever had trouble with in the AQ drives I had was the shift lever and the shift cable restrainer. I've never had one apart, but they are fairly bulletproof with that HP stuck on it. I think, based on the location of the skeg above and behind the prop, and the elec tilt/trim this is an AQ200 series drive. With the 125 engine on it, they are rock solid.

Of course, if the transom is punky, it's all for naught. I don't often find trailer boats with punky transom disease, but it can happen. Usually found in the south, so if the boat has been on trailer all it's life, and in the upper midwest, it's a low probable for transom issues. Good to check though.
 
SoonerAviator said:
It's the old AQ drive, so I don't consider it any better/worse than the Merc units. At least it's not the dreaded L-drive that Bayliner shoved in a lot of those boats. It's not a terrible boat, but I bet the thing has rotted transom/floors. Can't do too much bad for only $500, but I'd definitely water test the thing to uncover any "gotchas". As with most things, you get what you pay for, and $500 isn't paying for much in the boating world. I'd go in expecting it to be worth nothing but the trailer and move on from there.
Click to expand...

That's why I'm thinking it's only $500. I could get lucky, though.
 
jesse said:
Yeah, will order new gaskets for the carbs tonight, and replace all the fuel hoses and fittings. After that I'll see where I stand. Doubt I'll have that done by this weekend...so I guess I'll take the jet ski out this weekend. Going to be *COLD* water still though.
Click to expand...

Didn't see it mentioned but if the fuel lines/primer bulb are old, replace them with new, and a new fuel/water separator. Drain carbs..

I put a new fuel /water separator on every spring and keep a spare with me. Primer bulbs and fuel lines maybe 5 year items.
 
docmirror said:
If it's as clean as it looks, that is the deal of the century. The little Volvo is a wonderful sport boat engine, and the Penta outdrive are very reliable. Ask if the water pump problem is the raw water pump in the drive, or the engine water pump. Even with that, if the hull is sound, and the interior is in decent shape fixing the water leak isn't a big job.

Easy tow, easy launch, easy drive, easy recovery. Not fancy, but a good stable chine hull and plenty of fun on the water for a small fam. Low fuel use too. Jump on it.
Click to expand...

This is what the seller emailed me,

When I took it in to be winterized they said there was a leak near
the water pump. So when the boat is running the water that
is going through the motor and that should be going out the
back of the boat is leaking into the boat instead. Not all
of it of course but it's enough to be a problem. The
last time I used it in September I did notice it took much
longer to drain when I pulled the plug out. It usually takes
a few seconds to get out any water that may have accumulated
from normal use but that day I think I was waiting about 5
minutes for it to drain.
 
I'm no expert but I can relay my story:

I bought a jet ski and trailer for $500. Checked it out on-site and it cranked but didn't start. Brought it home and had a pretty fun time fixing it. Lots of folks here helped me. Turned out to be the electrical controller that was the issue. I got relatively lucky that the issues weren't horrible (ask Jesse about his jet ski fun).

If it were me and an on-site inspection of the boat didn't turn up anything immediately disqualifying, I'd pull the trigger and have some fun fixing it. Worst case scenario you can sell the trailer and (maybe?) part the boat out and be out only a couple hundred dollars.
 
JB1842 said:
This is what the seller emailed me,

When I took it in to be winterized they said there was a leak near
the water pump. So when the boat is running the water that
is going through the motor and that should be going out the
back of the boat is leaking into the boat instead. Not all
of it of course but it's enough to be a problem. The
last time I used it in September I did notice it took much
longer to drain when I pulled the plug out. It usually takes
a few seconds to get out any water that may have accumulated
from normal use but that day I think I was waiting about 5
minutes for it to drain.
Click to expand...

Water pump on the front of the engine.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-automotive-water-pump-circulation-pump-aq125

Go to http://www.rockauto.com/ look up 1984 Volvo 2.3L engine, look at the cooling system, click on water pump and pull up the image. Should be almost exactly the same thing for ~$30. Get the gasket. May have to modify the neck for the inlet, or you can go with the rubber hose and clamp method, your choice. Or, you can pay $330 for the actual AQ125 marine water pump(gee, sounds like aviation!).

If I were closer to you, or you can wait until summer is over and I'm at Osh, I'll do it for you. By the time it's done, boating season in WI is pretty much over except for fishin.
 
docmirror said:
Water pump on the front of the engine.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-automotive-water-pump-circulation-pump-aq125

Go to http://www.rockauto.com/ look up 1984 Volvo 2.3L engine, look at the cooling system, click on water pump and pull up the image. Should be almost exactly the same thing for ~$30. Get the gasket. May have to modify the neck for the inlet, or you can go with the rubber hose and clamp method, your choice. Or, you can pay $330 for the actual AQ125 marine water pump(gee, sounds like aviation!).

If I were closer to you, or you can wait until summer is over and I'm at Osh, I'll do it for you. By the time it's done, boating season in WI is pretty much over except for fishin.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be in Ohio the week of Osh. The seller won't have it out of storage until next week. That's at least a good sign that he takes care of it. Would hooking up a water hose to the intake and running the engine help pinpoint where the water is coming from or will the water pressure coming from the hose defeat the purpose? I don't mind playing mechanic on it, but we are in the middle of a basement build, so I'll have to see what the wife says.
 
Last edited:
JB1842 said:
I'm going to be in Ohio the week of Osh. The seller won't have it out of storage until next week. That's at least a good sign that he takes care of it. Would hooking up a water hose to the intake and running the engine help pinpoint where the water is coming from or will the water pressure coming from the hose defeat the purpose? I don't mind playing mechanic on it, but we are in the middle of a basement build, so I'll have to see what the wife says.
Click to expand...

Yes. Get a set of marine rabbit ears for the outdrive. Connect hose, start water, run it up to temp and start hunting. Most pump leaks are plain old seal problems where the water is bypassing the seal and drooling down the front of the engine through the weep hole. some are a bit more trouble from the pressure side flange, some are freeze plugs, some are even all the way down to the exhaust stack(more money there). Because it's not gushing, I'm betting weep hole.
 
docmirror said:
Yes. Get a set of marine rabbit ears for the outdrive. Connect hose, start water, run it up to temp and start hunting. Most pump leaks are plain old seal problems where the water is bypassing the seal and drooling down the front of the engine through the weep hole. some are a bit more trouble from the pressure side flange, some are freeze plugs, some are even all the way down to the exhaust stack(more money there). Because it's not gushing, I'm betting weep hole.
Click to expand...

I would bet 5 bucks on that too.........

Seal is leaking....
 
docmirror said:
Water pump on the front of the engine.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-automotive-water-pump-circulation-pump-aq125

Go to http://www.rockauto.com/ look up 1984 Volvo 2.3L engine, look at the cooling system, click on water pump and pull up the image. Should be almost exactly the same thing for ~$30. Get the gasket. May have to modify the neck for the inlet, or you can go with the rubber hose and clamp method, your choice. Or, you can pay $330 for the actual AQ125 marine water pump(gee, sounds like aviation!).

If I were closer to you, or you can wait until summer is over and I'm at Osh, I'll do it for you. By the time it's done, boating season in WI is pretty much over except for fishin.
Click to expand...


Ah I would have loved to use rockauto parts on my sbc chevy.. but its run in saltwater
 
N801BH said:
I would bet 5 bucks on that too.........

Seal is leaking....
Click to expand...

I hope that's it. The ad did say he replaced the water pump and impeller kit. Could be they didn't use a new gasket or didn't put it together correctly?
 
JB1842 said:
I hope that's it. The ad did say he replaced the water pump and impeller kit. Could be they didn't use a new gasket or didn't put it together correctly?
Click to expand...

He replaced the raw water pump. Some of them are inside the outdrive, some are driven on the front of the crankshaft down low. You will need to look at it to determine. It's possible they did the raw water pump and messed something up. Another easy fix, the front mounted raw water pump comes off with two clamps and two small bolts on the front.
 
docmirror said:
He replaced the raw water pump. Some of them are inside the outdrive, some are driven on the front of the crankshaft down low. You will need to look at it to determine. It's possible they did the raw water pump and messed something up. Another easy fix, the raw water pump comes off with two clamps and two small bolts on the front.
Click to expand...

Got it. I'm going to take notes on this thread so I know what to ask/look at.
 
Get the hose, hook up the rabbit ear clamp, run it up to temp and start hunting. It'll be pretty easy to see.
 
We're thinking years out about a fun dream - spend a year or two living on a boat and going around. Do it when the kids are old enough to remember and get something out of it, so this is years off in the future.

For something like that we're thinking in the 45-50 ft range, but there's a billion different types. Just looking at the Sea Rays since we like the one we have, the Express cruisers and the like look nice. Similar style to what we have, just bigger. But I could see the advantage of other styles. The 80s ones with 6V92s are appealing since I like those engines - dirt simple and cheap.

What would you buy for a family of 5 to live and travel on?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We're thinking years out about a fun dream - spend a year or two living on a boat and going around. Do it when the kids are old enough to remember and get something out of it, so this is years off in the future.

For something like that we're thinking in the 45-50 ft range, but there's a billion different types. Just looking at the Sea Rays since we like the one we have, the Express cruisers and the like look nice. Similar style to what we have, just bigger. But I could see the advantage of other styles. The 80s ones with 6V92s are appealing since I like those engines - dirt simple and cheap.

What would you buy for a family of 5 to live and travel on?
Click to expand...

Ok, here we go. You're headed into Henning territory, and the short answer is - there is no boat big enough. The biggest I've skippered is a 44' Hatteras with twin Detroits. We had 6 adults on the boat for 8 days. Here's the thing. When you are on a boat, the furthest you can get from anyone at any time is the length of the boat -- 44 feet in our case. If you are looking in that range, plan on docking and getting off every 3-6 days. A few other things, if you get an express cruiser, you will spend a lot, a lot, a lot of time getting in and out of the cabin. Get something with a good access, and not that skinny little passageway on the express boats. Also, you're going to want direct or V drives for efficiency. Bigger boats use a ton of gas(literally), and you want to do everything possible to improve efficiency of the engines.

Beyond that, you are gonna have to rely on Henning, I'm a trailer boater forever. After 8 days on a 44' boat with 7 other people was ready to dive overboard and swim to Cuba. werd...
 
The 3 F's

If it Flys, Floats, or Fools-around you're better off renting.
 
docmirror said:
Ok, here we go. You're headed into Henning territory, and the short answer is - there is no boat big enough. The biggest I've skippered is a 44' Hatteras with twin Detroits. We had 6 adults on the boat for 8 days. Here's the thing. When you are on a boat, the furthest you can get from anyone at any time is the length of the boat -- 44 feet in our case. If you are looking in that range, plan on docking and getting off every 3-6 days. A few other things, if you get an express cruiser, you will spend a lot, a lot, a lot of time getting in and out of the cabin. Get something with a good access, and not that skinny little passageway on the express boats. Also, you're going to want direct or V drives for efficiency. Bigger boats use a ton of gas(literally), and you want to do everything possible to improve efficiency of the engines.

Beyond that, you are gonna have to rely on Henning, I'm a trailer boater forever. After 8 days on a 44' boat with 7 other people was ready to dive overboard and swim to Cuba. werd...
Click to expand...

I understand your points regarding the 6 adults on the boat for 8 days (although then you state 8 days on a 44' boat with 7 other people, so I'm assuming that was a total of 8 people for 8 days?). For one, we're talking about our specific family unit of 5, rather than 6-8 adults which would obviously include different families. As an introvert, there are very few people I want to spend 8 days around without the ability to get away from. With our close-knit family of 5, it's a bit different. Of course, 8-10 years from now we'll see how that shifts. 15 years ago I spent a week and a half on a 100 ft schooner with about 15-20 other people and I found it to work just fine.

Regardless, I think your point regarding getting off every few days is spot on, and would be part of the plan. After all, if nothing else the goal would be to go see places not just go around and burn fuel, so that'd be part of it. My thought was more what style of boat lends itself well, having no idea about these things. I've also seen some of the various other cabin boats that have two decks (high and low), and from a practical perspective I think that makes sense. That way when the weather is bad you have a proper cabin to be comfortable in, rather than just a bimini top. Things like heat come into play for the cooler days, or at least cooler mornings.

The efficiency is also a big deal, I agree. With our current 23' boat there are a lot of things I could do to make it more efficient, but just don't care because we will never use it enough to see the benefit. For something like this I would go through and spend more time getting it "right" and doing the little details that would improve efficiency like I've been doing with the 310.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I understand your points regarding the 6 adults on the boat for 8 days (although then you state 8 days on a 44' boat with 7 other people, so I'm assuming that was a total of 8 people for 8 days?).
Click to expand...

We had three couples, and one other couple joined us for 3 of the 8 days. We picked them up in Freeport, and dropped them in Exuma. 8 people on one boat was a challenge. Here's what I did. After 3 days, I sat everyone down in the stateroom and we had 'The Chat'. People are people, they fart, they shilt, they stink, they talk, eat, drink, whatever. You can't get away on a boat, you just can't so; 1 - be extra considerate of your crew mates. 2 - accept that you aren't going to get away from someone while underway, so be more forgiving. After that, we loosened up and weren't so snooty about the whole process. But - by the end of the trip I never wanted to see a boat, or those people again - ever.

Since then, we've got back in touch and become good friends, but parts were stressful. I'm sure that as boat driver, tender, mechanic, navigator, weatherman, and a few other jobs, I wasn't the easiest to deal with as well. I let one of the other guys take the helm for a few hours one day, and we wound up ~30 miles off course; 'I saw that island in the distance, so I turned that way. I thought that's where we wanted to dock'. sadly, 'that island' was not Nassau, but hey, we got to see a spot we didn't plan on.
 
I could see those stresses for sure, and with 2-3 other couples, no way. So yeah, I see the differences and how that could sour your view.

My question was more doing what we do best in this forum: help me figure out how to spend money! :D

Or rather, hypothetical on a purchase that may or may not ever happen.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Seconded. Expecially if you want to go offshore, wind is free and sailboats consume little diesel under power.
Click to expand...

Ok, but what sort? Any other details? Figure a crew of 2 adults and 3 kids that should be assumed as effectively not crew.
 
Sails are so last century. I've never been so bored in all my life as the month I spent on a sail bote one weekend. Which is to say I know squadoosh about sailbotes, except they are s-l-o-w and require a ton of handling.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Ok, but what sort? Any other details? Figure a crew of 2 adults and 3 kids that should be assumed as effectively not crew.
Click to expand...

Plenty of couples single hand sailboats around the world, although if one has to be constantly watching young'uns, I can see the problem.

As Wilke suggested, another good choice is a trawler. Much more fuel efficient.

As far as advice, it's been a long time since I've looked at 40-50ft bluewater boats. I'd go look at some offshore sailing and trawler fora.

For an ocean going sailboat, I'd be looking for a well found Amel.
 
Obviously we'd need more experience before a trip like this no matter what, but especially with sailing. A few years back (pre-kids) we'd thought about the prospect of sailing around places, but then kids changed that idea.
 
Go to google maps, zoom in on the FL coast starting around North Lake in Hollywood. Just stay on the Earth view, and take a look at the boats in the marinas. Scroll down the coast checking all the marinas along the way, and count the number of sailbotes. You can id them by the tapered stern, looks like a cat eye from above. It's my experience that power boats out sell sailbotes about 50:1. With that, just about every sailbote sold today has a small engine on it with a prop in the water.

Telling....
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Obviously we'd need more experience before a trip like this no matter what, but especially with sailing. A few years back (pre-kids) we'd thought about the prospect of sailing around places, but then kids changed that idea.
Click to expand...

For sailing, the evolution tends to be that people:
- get their basic keelboat certifications
- bareboat charter for a couple of years
- get frustrated with the cost and decide that they can 'save money' by buying a boat (famous last words)
- buy a boat, use it for many weeks and weekends the first year, a little in the second and then it turns into a hole in the water to pour money into that they use for 2 weekends
- sell the boat, loose a lot of money
- go back to bareboat charters :wink2:
 
Last edited:
No sailboat will be cheaper to operate than a displacement hull diesel powerboat. Sailboats cost a fortune. The cheapest thing you'll buy for your boat is fuel.

Get a sailboat because you enjoy the challenge of operating it, not to save money. It's a bit like building a kit plane in that regard.
 
And don't forget heat, as in August. It gets really hot on a boat and with a bunch of people on board it gets old real quick. I sailed on a 46 cal with two. With more it would have been a real drag.
 
Replaced all the leaky fuel hoses, went through the carbs, all put back together and ready to start. Problem is I can't find my damn hose flush attachment. Off to Walmart now to get one.
 
docmirror said:
Go to google maps, zoom in on the FL coast starting around North Lake in Hollywood. Just stay on the Earth view, and take a look at the boats in the marinas. Scroll down the coast checking all the marinas along the way, and count the number of sailbotes. You can id them by the tapered stern, looks like a cat eye from above. It's my experience that power boats out sell sailbotes about 50:1. With that, just about every sailbote sold today has a small engine on it with a prop in the water.

Telling....
Click to expand...

All you have proven with that exercise is that the bays of FL are shallow and that the state is full of retired people who dont want to work hard while they are boating.

Do the same exercise zooming in on back-creek in Solomons Island, MD, Spa Creek in Annapolis or Broad Creek in Deltaville,VA and you will see just as many sailboats as powerboats.
 
weilke said:
All you have proven with that exercise is that the bays of FL are shallow and that the state is full of retired people who dont want to work hard while they are boating.

Do the same exercise zooming in on back-creek in Solomons Island, MD, Spa Creek in Annapolis or Broad Creek in Deltaville,VA and you will see just as many sailboats as powerboats.
Click to expand...

That's my observation as well. In NYC and on the east coast I always remember seeing a bunch of sail boats around. But in Florida I always see more power boats.
 
JHW said:
No sailboat will be cheaper to operate than a displacement hull diesel powerboat. Sailboats cost a fortune. The cheapest thing you'll buy for your boat is fuel.

Get a sailboat because you enjoy the challenge of operating it, not to save money. It's a bit like building a kit plane in that regard.
Click to expand...

We have both enjoyed sailing when we've done it, albeit a limited experience and strictly pleasure vs. pleasure/transport. When I spent a week and a half on the Lady Maryland, she was a fully functional schooner, but we did have a few times when we ran the diesels to meet the schedule.

On the fuel being the cheapest thing you buy for the boat, that's proven true so far. Yesterday I topped off the boat and it took 40 gallons, which means that's how much we burned last year for 6-8 times out on the lake. About $110 in the fuel at today's prices. In that same period, we've spent money either for the boat or to support boating on:

- new batteries
- air springs for the truck so it can tow the boat better
- life jackets
- coolers
- marine grease
- brake fluid for the surge brakes
- title/registration fees
- new cover
- new propeller on the way
- probably $150 in fuel in the truck to tow the boat back and forth to the lake
- LED lights for the cabin for better brightness and less heat

And on the list for this year:

- expecting to have to redo/upgrade the surge brakes on the trailer
- redo the cushions in the cuddy cabin
- redo the captain's chair (the vinyl is in pretty sorry shape)

And that all assumes that nothing breaks on it.

So far that's been about $1500 spent (not including purchase price), with fuel being around 6% of total cost.

The 310 isn't dissimilar in the sense that dry costs outweigh fuel costs, but on the 310 it's about 3:2 vs 15:1.

Obviously, the dynamic would be different if we were truly using this to travel at about 3 MPG. The other day it looked like I might have to go to Boston for work, so we were joking we could go down to the Ohio river, take it to the Mississippi, go to the Gulf, around Florida, and up to Boston. That'd probably take something around 1200 gallons one way.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We're thinking years out about a fun dream - spend a year or two living on a boat and going around. Do it when the kids are old enough to remember and get something out of it, so this is years off in the future.

For something like that we're thinking in the 45-50 ft range, but there's a billion different types. Just looking at the Sea Rays since we like the one we have, the Express cruisers and the like look nice. Similar style to what we have, just bigger. But I could see the advantage of other styles. The 80s ones with 6V92s are appealing since I like those engines - dirt simple and cheap.

What would you buy for a family of 5 to live and travel on?
Click to expand...

I would not buy an express cruiser (SeaRay). If you don't want a sailboat, but want to do a long term liveaboard, you want a trawler or cabin cruiser. If you have nothing but time and are willing to perhaps not go to the Bahamas, I'd even consider a well built house boat. Bahamas won't be out of the question, you just really need to carefully pick your weather to make any sort of open water crossing in one.

A diesel at low rpm and a displacement hull will be the most economical for long trips.

In a displacement hull for long term cruising, a single diesel and a bow thruster is just as good as a twin. I'd even try for two gensets before I go for two engines. Of course, with solar and battery tech, maybe one genset and that tech would be OK.

Assuming you are not referring to trans-ocean trips, this would be the trip to consider...
map%20with%20canada.png

http://www.greatloop.org/

I am familiar with height limitations through the Erie canal. If you are committed to staying or passing through certain areas, that can limit vessel choices. For the most part, however, <21' will get you through or near a lot.
http://www.canals.ny.gov/about/about.html#heights

When looking at a boat with a radar arch or radar mast that go above that height, check to see how easily it can be raised and lowered. (Sailors on that trip unstep the mast at one end and re-step at the other end)

Land transport with 5 people pretty much means bicycles. A scooter would be helpful for single person grocery runs.

I ran smaller boats than Henning, but that was my job from '92-'99. I never did the inland route (Miss, Tenn-Tom); but I did the Great Lakes, Erie Canal, Hudson, ICW about 9 times. NY state in the fall is very pretty.

Since someone else was paying the bills on my trips, we docked at a marina every night (unless we were offshore doing a long segment in good weather). Many people do that trip more frugally; anchoring out a lot and using the tender to get to shore if desired.
 
Good advice, thanks. The various cabin cruisers are appealing, and also the idea of two captains stations, one in the cabin and one up top. Ie weather protection when needed, and open when not.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Good advice, thanks. The various cabin cruisers are appealing, and also the idea of two captains stations, one in the cabin and one up top. Ie weather protection when needed, and open when not.
Click to expand...

Chances are you'll rarely drive from the lower station. Plan on a "canvas" flybridge enclosure and look for the bare minimum of a control station below deck. The space is just too valuable.

This would not apply if you told me you were going to make significant offshore trips and keep to a tight schedule "weather be damned".

It makes perfect sense if most time is spent at dock or at anchor and movement to the next location was "when you feel like it". Even in chilly weather, a flybridge enclosed with canvas and clear vinyl can be warmed up enough to cut the chill.
 
Ok, so it's official: my surge brake master cylinder is toast. It's filled with rust. Ain't gonna work, need a new one.

So now comes the question - right now I have single axle drum brakes, which are likely also in bad shape. I could:

1) Just replace the master cylinder/tongue, flush it, see if it works
2) 1 + replacing the drum assemblies at the wheels
3) 2 + add drums on the other axle
4) Disc brakes instead of drums (I hate drum brakes)

I could go electric head as well, but then I'd need to add a brake controller to the truck. I'm towing with an Avalanche 1500 which, like any GM truck I've driven, has crappy brakes. I also have the question of whether or not I need to just change the brake lines/hoses since they likely also have rust and junk in them.

Thoughts?
 
4. Discs with a new master. Well worth it if you ever have a panic stop.

I had a trailer with a 24' boat on it with crappy drum brakes and I redid with disc and a new master. It was night and day difference, much better. Sorry, I know it's a lot more money, but the peace of mind is worth the cost. If you go elec, it's a fair amount of work. If you were always towing constantly like a 5th wheel then elec would be the way to go but just to the lake and back I vote disc surge.

The bet is, if the master is shot the wheel cyl are both done. So, you're looking at the master and two cyl. the drum and actuators are likely ok with some cleaning and restoration, but you still have drum brakes back there.
 
Yeah, doc, I'm looking at the discs and thinking that on both axles is the way to go. More money, but I like good brakes. If I was still driving my Dodge which had excellent brakes, it would be different.

4 wheel discs with a new surge master is probably the way to go. Figure I can clean these lines or just do new of those too? I'm figuring shotgun it and do new everything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top