Sounds right.
Thinking About a Boat
- Thread starter Ted
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Sounds right.
Is this for the "foot" or the entire outdrive??,,
Likely the whole drive, it's not like they are complex, and they make enough of them that economy of scale allows for efficient production runs of parts supply. These are low tech devices, a few castings, gears and shafts.
There are props to go on them that sell for more than these drives.
I agree...
WAY back 40 years ago during my hydroplane racing days, we paid ALOT more for Mercury racing "quickie" lower units... Hard to believe things are cheaper now... But.. Stranger things have happened..
I agree...
WAY back 40 years ago during my hydroplane racing days, we paid ALOT more for Mercury racing "quickie" lower units... Hard to believe things are cheaper now... But.. Stranger things have happened..
Apples and oranges, racing equipment is always 3 times more, as stuff now as well.
You're just looking at a different market segment. I'm not sure what the modern equivalent of my Merc 402x is, but I bet it's 3 times more than a stock 40hp.
Ted
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This idea seems intriguing when it comes time to replace the outdrive.
I've ended up backing the boat pretty well into the corner now, so I could get at the outdrive but I'd probably have to move forward if I was thinking I'd remove the thing and put it inside for the winter. I'd prefer not to, simply because that's taking up more space. If I had reason to believe the thing needed work, that'd be a different story. Right now I don't necessarily believe that.
So, for one person to do solo, how hard is it to remove? My thought is the unit is pretty heavy and probably you end up wanting at least a second person or else some appropriate hoist. I normally do all my own work on everything (I just put new bearings and a new transmission in my car, for example), but I'm wondering if in this case it might be better to let one of the boat shops handle replacing the bellows. If I had reason to believe the whole outdrive was bad (I don't - it worked fine for us) it might be different.
Appreciate more thoughts. I also will need to look and see if I can find the drain plugs. The outdrive has a lot of whiteish staining on it. I don't know if that's just because the previous owners were bad about washing it off post-boating or if there was something else.
Oh, and I figured out how to make the release that allows me to throttle forward for starting work. Makes more sense now.
lowtimer
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The drive is one person doable, but 2 is nice without a lift. You need about 2 feet of clearance behind the drive with it down to get it off. If you don't pull it off make sure all the water is out of the cooling and exhaust passages. It should drain ok just by being lowered all the way down. Blowing air back through the drive via the hose the cooling water goes to the thermostat hsg is also a good idea. I'm sure you probably did this stuff, just covering bases.
The u-joint bellows on gen I alphas is kind of a pain in the ass, way more so than the water pump impeller. If you are comfortable doing the work you mentioned on your cars you can handle the bellows. Most shops will charge about $400 to change the u-joint bellows. Flat rate is 3 hrs and they have to take the exhaust bellows off to do the u-joint bellows. If they try to charge extra labor for the exhaust bellows they are screwing you.
While you are looking at bellows look closely at the shift cable bellows at the bottom of the ribs/ridges. If you see any cracking replace it also.
One more thing, use factory merc parts for the bellows and impeller, it makes a difference.
The u-joint bellows on gen I alphas is kind of a pain in the ass, way more so than the water pump impeller. If you are comfortable doing the work you mentioned on your cars you can handle the bellows. Most shops will charge about $400 to change the u-joint bellows. Flat rate is 3 hrs and they have to take the exhaust bellows off to do the u-joint bellows. If they try to charge extra labor for the exhaust bellows they are screwing you.
While you are looking at bellows look closely at the shift cable bellows at the bottom of the ribs/ridges. If you see any cracking replace it also.
One more thing, use factory merc parts for the bellows and impeller, it makes a difference.
Not hard, if you have a cherry picker/engine hoist it's dirt simple, you'll be done with water pump, u-joints, and bellows (inspect the drive coupler in the flywheel, they are life limited vulcanized drives) in a weekend this spring before the water warms up, just get the parts lined up before you start and read the manual instructions especially with regards to the shift cable and linkage, there are often procedural keys to make alignment happen during assembly.
Ted
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Well if replacing the bellows would likely be $400 or so at a shop, then I think I'd rather see if I can do it myself. Don't have a cherry picker.
If I was smart, I'd probably start messing with it now since the twins are due in a bit under 2 months. But I think I'd rather just leave the boat packed up for now
If I was smart, I'd probably start messing with it now since the twins are due in a bit under 2 months. But I think I'd rather just leave the boat packed up for now
You don't have a Cherry Picker? Well, buy or rent one or get a buddy to help, it's a ***** by yourself. Boom style Tow trucks are real handy for this as well if you have a local provider you are on good terms with.
Ted
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So here's another question: last time we had it out we (well, my wife was driving, but I don't fault her for it) ran the prop into some rocks. It was enough to stop the engine and take a chunk out of the prop. Would this mandate an inspection of the outdrive? We ran it 1-2 hours after that with no noticeable issues.
Damn it, I want to get back out on the water already.
Damn it, I want to get back out on the water already.
A PROP STRIKE......
...
.......Ted... You need a COMPLETE teardown of all components...
.....lowtimer
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If you decide to pull the drive without extra help and no lift here's how to do it.
Tilt drive down until prop shaft is level with the floor, you may have to lower the front of the trailer to the ground to have enough clearance in the back. Make a stack of boards the same height as the distance from the bottom of the skeg (fin under drive) to the ground. Put boards between drive and ground so that you will only be balancing the weight of the drive. Put shifter in fwd, pull the pin between the aft end of the trim rams, remove the six nuts/washers holding drive to pivot hsg and slide it on out of there.
Sometimes they are stuck and don't slide out easily. We'll cover that ground if the need arises. If it's not stuck this might take you 30 minutes, once you've done it it's more like 10 minutes.
Yep, the smart thing would be to do it now prior to the twins. Me, I'd end up putting it off til spring.
lowtimer
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If the prop shaft is not bent you are probably ok. Also look at the splines of the lower unit drive shaft when you do the water pump impeller to see if they have twisted. Assuming aluminum prop I'd guess you are ok, if it was a stainless prop you better look at it closely. If you have the drive torn down for inspection and reassembled at a shop it will cost about 2/3 of replacing it.
If you are boating somewhere that a loss of power is going to put you or your family "at risk" I'd look at this differently than if you are boating someplace where a loss of power means waving someone down for a tow.
Ted
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A PROP STRIKE......
Ted... You need a COMPLETE teardown of all components...
I've clearly spent too much time in the certified aircraft world.
Yep, the smart thing would be to do it now prior to the twins. Me, I'd end up putting it off til spring.
I see that you and I are of a similar intelligence level!
I agree with your assessment here. We boat on a large and popular lake that has good services. So the worst case is waving someone down for a tow. If it's really windy, we might run aground, but not likely. Boat also has a ship-to-shore radio on it.
If we were talking about an epic trip to Florida (from Ohio, via water) with it, that'd be different.
Not really, it was an aluminum prop. The 'weak links' in the system are the vulcanized drive at the prop hub and flywheel, but in practice aluminum prop blades are the weak link. I would not be overly concerned with the gears, shafts, and bearings. If things run true and it doesn't have slack or grinding in the bearings it's ok.
Ted
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Ok. So probably just replace the prop (the boat came with a spare), put new bellows on it (maybe an impeller while I'm there), and keep on driving it until it explodes. And hopefully don't find coolant in the oil. If that happens, I'll have to be buying a new engine, which I don't feel like changing.
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Ted,
I sent a picture of the gasket that "never fails"[1] to the dealer and he then send it on to Mercruiser. The reply was what I expected, "Out of warranty, tough luck."
So, I will also be pulling the outdrive over the winter and inspecting the u-joints and gimbal bearing for water damage. I will also pull the top cover from the upper to see if it looks good inside. If it looks rusty or water damaged, I'll just buy the SEI drive.
I expect to have to do u-joints and gimbal at the minimum, and of course replace all the bellows and the shift cable while I'm there. I will also separate the outdrive and replace the impellor.
Should be fun and educational (and a bit of a pain in the azz as I've read).
[1] Gasket between the outdrive and bell housing failed below the waterline and we had some vibration in the drive the last two outings.
Why?
Clean it up with some Ospho and put fresh lube in it, it'll last many more seasons. You have no idea how bad this stuff gets and get put back in use. Don't replace stuff like this over rust, you'll replace it to a casualty before that has an effect most likely.
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Why?
If the shafts are rusty inside the outdrive (indicating water), wouldn't the bearings also be water damaged?
Not necessarily as they are constantly turning and polishing. When bearings fail from water it is from galling.
lowtimer
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Ted,
I sent a picture of the gasket that "never fails"[1] to the dealer and he then send it on to Mercruiser. The reply was what I expected, "Out of warranty, tough luck."
So, I will also be pulling the outdrive over the winter and inspecting the u-joints and gimbal bearing for water damage. I will also pull the top cover from the upper to see if it looks good inside. If it looks rusty or water damaged, I'll just buy the SEI drive.
I expect to have to do u-joints and gimbal at the minimum, and of course replace all the bellows and the shift cable while I'm there. I will also separate the outdrive and replace the impellor.
Should be fun and educational (and a bit of a pain in the azz as I've read).
[1] Gasket between the outdrive and bell housing failed below the waterline and we had some vibration in the drive the last two outings.
Drain the drive oil now and look for evidence of water. If the oil that comes out is good then you should not have a problem. Refill the drive and deal with the rest later if you want to wait. Don't leave the drive full of watery oil unused for any period of time. It's probably best to address the other stuff as soon as you can also, it has not stopped rusting.
Grady-White makes a heck of a nice 20 footer bow-rider. It is currently called the "Freedom 205". It used to be called the "Tournament 205". They even have an enclosed head compartment. Comparitively expensive, but you get what you pay for.
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If I was looking for an offshore runabout, GW would be at the top of my list, well built stuff. I'm on an inland lake and don't need that kind of boat.
Ted
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Today I went and saw the previous owner of the boat. He had a spare key and a spare tire for the thing that he forgot to give me. It was nice of him to let me know. We chatted for a bit, and he was very happy to hear how much use we've already gotten out of it and how happy we are with the thing.
I asked him about that lower bellows. His opinion was that the lower one should be generally ignored as it frequently breaks, and on fresh water (and especially a lake) not to be much concerned. I mentioned the other bellows starting to show cracking, and he said he wouldn't worry about it either for another season or two so long as there wasn't any water in the gearbox. Obviously he knew the condition of the parts when he sold it, plus he has been around boats all his life (and this one for about 20 years).
Obviously, if it breaks then that means I could get stuck on the water, etc., so that's another option to consider. However, since we pretty much go out onto the lake, I'm thinking what I'll most likely do is put the new prop on in the spring, make sure I'm not seeing any signs of problems when I de-winterize it, and just take it out on the water. With the babies next year, I'm figuring we'll likely get 1 use a month out of it.
I asked him about that lower bellows. His opinion was that the lower one should be generally ignored as it frequently breaks, and on fresh water (and especially a lake) not to be much concerned. I mentioned the other bellows starting to show cracking, and he said he wouldn't worry about it either for another season or two so long as there wasn't any water in the gearbox. Obviously he knew the condition of the parts when he sold it, plus he has been around boats all his life (and this one for about 20 years).
Obviously, if it breaks then that means I could get stuck on the water, etc., so that's another option to consider. However, since we pretty much go out onto the lake, I'm thinking what I'll most likely do is put the new prop on in the spring, make sure I'm not seeing any signs of problems when I de-winterize it, and just take it out on the water. With the babies next year, I'm figuring we'll likely get 1 use a month out of it.
AdamZ
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If you get stuck on the lake couldn't Laurie just hop over and swim to shore pulling the boat behind her on a tow line? She's a pretty tough lady!
And....
Next year they will have "guppies" and they could harness them together to help pull the boat....
It will only be a " Three Hour Tour"........
Que the music....
.......
Uh, the bellows breaking can often sink the boat.
Dav8or
Final Approach
That's my understanding. A broken bellows means you are taking on water. I don't get the "no big deal on the bellows bust" idea?
Ted
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Well, hasn't taken on water so far. Since this one is on the exhaust side, the water would have to go up into the risers.
I could see it being a bigger deal on the driveshaft bellows, but on the exhaust one, makes more sense. Hence why I asked for opinions.
I could see it being a bigger deal on the driveshaft bellows, but on the exhaust one, makes more sense. Hence why I asked for opinions.
If the exhaust ruptures then the raw water pump will fill the boat.
lowtimer
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The exhaust bellows below the u-joint bellows will not allow water in the boat. The u-joint bellows and the shift cable bellows will let water in the boat if they stop holding water. The u-joint bellows will also allow water into your u-joints and gimbal brg and possibly the drive itself.
Ted
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Yes, won't that happen regardless of the 2" bellows going to the outdrive from the hull?
Ted
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Ok, this sounds like my understanding. It's the exhaust bellows below the u-joint that is broken.
Ted
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Winter is coming to an end. Temps in the 50s yesterday, 50s and 60s highs for the next 10 days. I'm not ready to open the boat yet, but I'm starting to think about it. So with that, a few questions as I've never de-winterized a boat before.
I'm generally figuring go through with a shop vac to vacuum up all the moth balls, probably take the vacuum/steam cleaner to the cushions, test the electrical system/etc. Batteries were shot so I need new ones. Put a new prop on (old one got a bit torn up on the last time out.
The engine I'm a bit worried about just because even though I winterized it, I'll be the first to admit I may have screwed up. I suppose there's really no way to tell until I take it out on the lake and see if water gets into the oil. That would royally **** me off.
The brakes on the trailer needed bleeding. They're surge brakes, which I've never tried to bleed before. Any tips for that?
Anything else I'm missing? Supplies I should buy? Etc.
Can't wait to get back on the water.
I'm generally figuring go through with a shop vac to vacuum up all the moth balls, probably take the vacuum/steam cleaner to the cushions, test the electrical system/etc. Batteries were shot so I need new ones. Put a new prop on (old one got a bit torn up on the last time out.
The engine I'm a bit worried about just because even though I winterized it, I'll be the first to admit I may have screwed up. I suppose there's really no way to tell until I take it out on the lake and see if water gets into the oil. That would royally **** me off.
The brakes on the trailer needed bleeding. They're surge brakes, which I've never tried to bleed before. Any tips for that?
Anything else I'm missing? Supplies I should buy? Etc.
Can't wait to get back on the water.