Thinking About a Boat

Ted DuPuis said:
Winter is coming to an end. Temps in the 50s yesterday, 50s and 60s highs for the next 10 days. I'm not ready to open the boat yet, but I'm starting to think about it. So with that, a few questions as I've never de-winterized a boat before.

I'm generally figuring go through with a shop vac to vacuum up all the moth balls, probably take the vacuum/steam cleaner to the cushions, test the electrical system/etc. Batteries were shot so I need new ones. Put a new prop on (old one got a bit torn up on the last time out.

The engine I'm a bit worried about just because even though I winterized it, I'll be the first to admit I may have screwed up. I suppose there's really no way to tell until I take it out on the lake and see if water gets into the oil. That would royally **** me off.

The brakes on the trailer needed bleeding. They're surge brakes, which I've never tried to bleed before. Any tips for that?

Anything else I'm missing? Supplies I should buy? Etc.

Can't wait to get back on the water.
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Ok.... Spill the beans....

What has you worried ??:dunno::dunno::confused:

OMG.....:yikes::yikes:..

Don't tell us you used the Walmart (deice pellets) instead of RV anti freeze in the coolant system..:hairraise:........:D:D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Winter is coming to an end. Temps in the 50s yesterday, 50s and 60s highs for the next 10 days. I'm not ready to open the boat yet, but I'm starting to think about it. So with that, a few questions as I've never de-winterized a boat before.

I'm generally figuring go through with a shop vac to vacuum up all the moth balls, probably take the vacuum/steam cleaner to the cushions, test the electrical system/etc. Batteries were shot so I need new ones. Put a new prop on (old one got a bit torn up on the last time out.

The engine I'm a bit worried about just because even though I winterized it, I'll be the first to admit I may have screwed up. I suppose there's really no way to tell until I take it out on the lake and see if water gets into the oil. That would royally **** me off.

The brakes on the trailer needed bleeding. They're surge brakes, which I've never tried to bleed before. Any tips for that?

Anything else I'm missing? Supplies I should buy? Etc.

Can't wait to get back on the water.
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What size engine and prop are we talking about? You can fix a lot of damage to a prop with a dead blow and a 4x4 using some basic care and eyeball work.

The only way I know to bleed the surge systems effectively is from the bottom up, you have access to an old pressure pot bleeder? If not I use an oil squirt can on the bleed valve.
 
Henning said:
What size engine and prop are we talking about? You can fix a lot of damage to a prop with a dead blow and a 4x4 using some basic care and eyeball work.

The only way I know to bleed the surge systems effectively is from the bottom up, you have access to an old pressure pot bleeder? If not I use an oil squirt can on the bleed valve.
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Agreed.. That is the only thing that has worked for me....

1-NAPA oil can =5 bucks

1 -Qt pf brake fluid = 4 bucks..

10 minutes of Ted's time = Priceless...:D
 
First, if you have a water problem, it'll likely show up in the crankcase, not generally a break in the oil gallery, but it could happen.

Once you get all the water jacket plugs back in(exhaust stacks too), and the battery, connect your rabbit ear flushing clamp around the water intake on the outdrive, put the outdrive down, connect it to the hose, start the water, and start the engine. in less than a minute, you should have plenty of water coming out the exhaust ring on the outdrive. Let it run and monitor the water temp gauge and also the water temp coming out of the engine. It should be pretty warm after a while. Let it run for at least 15 min. and look for water coming out of the engine area, hopefully none! check for water coming out of the upper outdrive too where the bellows can crack. If no leaks, shut it off, and check the oil dipstick then.
 
Oh, as for the winterizing, did you leave the petcocks open? If you did, I doubt you have an issue, I never see problems with people who do that.

Oh, just remembered what your rig is, with the MerCruiser. Learn to repair your own props, it'll save a bunch around there.:lol: It's not tough, and it is done with hammers and blocks at all levels of shop.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Winter is coming to an end. Temps in the 50s yesterday, 50s and 60s highs for the next 10 days. I'm not ready to open the boat yet, but I'm starting to think about it. So with that, a few questions as I've never de-winterized a boat before.

I'm generally figuring go through with a shop vac to vacuum up all the moth balls, probably take the vacuum/steam cleaner to the cushions, test the electrical system/etc. Batteries were shot so I need new ones. Put a new prop on (old one got a bit torn up on the last time out.

The engine I'm a bit worried about just because even though I winterized it, I'll be the first to admit I may have screwed up. I suppose there's really no way to tell until I take it out on the lake and see if water gets into the oil. That would royally **** me off.

The brakes on the trailer needed bleeding. They're surge brakes, which I've never tried to bleed before. Any tips for that?

Anything else I'm missing? Supplies I should buy? Etc.

Can't wait to get back on the water.
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Make sure the battery(s) are charged up. Hopefully you saved your old prop, because it's usually around $100 or less to have it re-worked by a prop shop to new condition unless you really mangled it.

Regarding the winterizing, you can always drain the after running it on muffs for 10 minutes or so to check and see if there is water in the oil. The best solution to ensure no freezing occurs in the block is to drain the water and leave it empty. Air doesn't freeze, whereas running antifreeze runs the risks that it didn't fully mix in the cooling system. The other usual suspect for freeze damage is the power steering pump if you didn't drain it.

Finally, make sure your fire extinguishers and flares are all within their expiration dates while doing the usual USCG requirements check.
 
Bleeding trailer brakes is a hassle. I don't know which system type you have but first you need to locate the reservoir. It's generally a cap on top of the hitch just behind the latching mechanism. Once you find it, next critical item is to make sure the master cyl and reservoir is the highest point in the system. If you are parked with the trailer axles above the reservoir and master, it's going to be hard to bleed.

Once you have the master at the high point, the best tool to use is the vacuum bleeder kit; http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00920930000P?sid=IDxBCM201410150001 or similar. Start by cracking the bleed nipples on each hub. We do this because they get corroded often and if you break one, you'll need to have a replacement before you start bleeding the system. If the bleed nipple doesn't move with modest torque, stop!

Do everything you can to avoid breaking off the nipple in the slave cyl. Clean it well, use PB blaster, then heat around the nipple to try and free it up. If you can't get it out, and it breaks, just do yourself a favor and replace the slave cylinder. You would spend hours trying to get the broken nipple out, and the slave cyl isn't that costly anyway. Hopefully you won't have any broken ones. Once it's loose, just snug it back up for a bit, and go back to the master reservoir. Using the vac tool, suck as much old fluid out of the reservoir as you can with a little hose on the bottle. Get all the old fluid out so you don't run it through the lines to the slave cyl. You'll likely get some rust along with the old fluid. Once you get the reservoir dry, put a bit of kereosene in there, swish it around, then suck that out. Clean the reservoir well, maybe do another kero flush.

Once the reservoir is clean, fill with the right fluid, which ever DOT it's rated for. Fill right up near the top of the fill port. Tap the side of the reservoir a bit to dislodge any bubbles around there. Go back to the furthest slave nipple, connect the vac hose to the nipple, open the nipple a few turns, and then start sucking the fluid through. If it's fairly cold, the fluid will still be viscous and move slow. Warmer days are better. Monitor the level in the reservoir and don't let it run dry, keep adding fluid as it goes down. Once you have clear fluid coming through, close than nipple and move to the other side, do the same thing. Don't let the reservoir run dry.

Now, if you had to replace a slave cyl, I would install it at this point, then leave the nipple open for a few hours and let the fluid gravity fill into the cyl. check the reservoir a few times, and never let it run dry. If you are lucky, gravity will fill the slave cyl. You can help it along with the vac bleeder.

Testing is hard because you need to get under the hitch, locate the master actuator shaft, and put a pry bar up in there and exercise it. Not knowing which system you have I can't give specifics on that, but it's best to get the master shaft moving a bit to look for leaks. You can also test it by driving, but it's hard to verify that it's working on both sides by driving and hitting the brakes.
 
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Yep, busted nipple = new slave, not worth the time and skin to work on.
 
Forget your surge brakes, they will NEVER work correctly after being in the water for the first time. Worst brake system ever devised.
 
kgruber said:
Forget your surge brakes, they will NEVER work correctly after being in the water for the first time. Worst brake system ever devised.
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:confused: Keep them lubed and adjusted and they always work fine for me, doesn't get much simpler. The only PITA is getting out and engaging the brake lock out for backing it up a hill.
 
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I've owned a Catalina 22, it was indeed a great family boat, especially if you have a slip. If you don't have a slip then you'll only use it a few times a year.

I owned a bass boat for a while, which was fun, but really it was a lake only boat, and driving around a lake gets real old real fast.

If I ever get crazy enough to buy another boat I'd like Boston Whaler.
 
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docmirror said:
I've had so many trailer boats over the years, I could write billions of electrons on it.

You are on the right track. Here's a few pieces of advice: With little kids you do NOT want a pontoon or deck boat, you want one with standard well type cockpit. I'm a big fan of I/O drives, but the newer 4 stroke outboards are pretty nice, however they are very costly. I like having a marine chevy V8 pushing a Merc Alpha 2 drive just because everyone knows them, they get decent fuel econ, and they are pretty bulletproof. If you plan to use it in the middle of the day, in sunny weather(yup, you will), you want lots of shade. Get the biggest bimini top, and also a small cuddy cabin you can find. The bimini can always be folded down, but most times you'll have it up. A porta-potty that slides under the center console is a nice feature if you stay out all day. Don't bother with a built in stove, you can get a nice railing clamp-mount round bbq if you want to cook anything. Safer, and portable. Always have two batts and a A-B battery switch. Starting battery and house battery. Cruise with it on both setting, and switch to house battery when you stop for a while. I would avoid the large jet-ski type of hulls unless you operate on smooth water. They do not ride well in rough stuff, and they ship water easily. It's not fun with kids. Even though it's for pleasure, look for boats that have utility too. Fancy graphics, and radios, and gewgaws aren't as important as comfy seats, a lounging pad, and easy launching. Whatever you think is enough for ground tackle(lines, anchors) double it, and you'll be glad you did.

If you have specific questions, let me know, I can go on all day.
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Agree with you on almost everything...except the pontoon boat comment. I've got a 5 yr. old, my BIL has three under 4 yrs. old. I've got a 30' offshore express with a cabin for our river/off shore stuff, he's got a pontoon boat for the lake stuff. I have to say, with the small kids, the pontoon is awesome! Pack and plays fit right on the deck, it's got the railing all the way around, a huge fixed hard top getting everyone out of the sun and you can damn near run over anything in that thing in the event you are paying more attention to the kids than the driving.

I have never, EVER, been a fan of pontoon boats until he got his and we started using it. I wouldn't get one for river duties, and with older kids I can get that they are pretty boring, etc. But for little crawlers, the thing makes great sense.
 
guardrail said:
Agree with you on almost everything...except the pontoon boat comment.
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OK, with me, but the OP already bought a deep well hull boat. If you like your pontoon, you can keep your pontoon.
 
docmirror said:
OK, with me, but the OP already bought a deep well hull boat. If you like your pontoon, you can keep your pontoon.
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Yes I see that, but they do have merit...NOTE: not my pontoon, lol. I've got a deep vee offshore express...
 
Henning said:
:confused: The master cylinder and coupler slide never go under water, at least not the ones I launch.
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You've never seen the launch ramps up here. or tried to launch with a minus 20' tide.
 
Tom-D said:
so are we.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/4906869777.html
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Oh Tom. Gulp.

All pics I can find have sails furled. That's a bad, bad indication. Plan on all new sails, and be lucky if you don't have to replace every one. Also, you're looking at mast concerns.

Really, find someone like yourself in the boat world to survey it, pay particular attention to the sails and rigging. This isn't my wheelhouse(pun intended), but find someone good to run the survey.
 
JimNtexas said:
If I ever get crazy enough to buy another boat I'd like Boston Whaler.
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This. If I were crazy enough to go the all out boat route, I would buy a nice 29 foot sailboat, keep it in a slip off of lake Michigan, and get a Boston Whaler with a nice engine for waterskiing on smaller lakes. Best of both worlds.
 
guardrail said:
I have never, EVER, been a fan of pontoon boats until he got his and we started using it. I wouldn't get one for river duties, and with older kids I can get that they are pretty boring, etc. But for little crawlers, the thing makes great sense.
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Sorry, still would never own one. Deck boat would be about as close as I could get if I wanted the layout, but the pontoon hull is atrocious. :goofy:

They handle waves/chop like crap, are fuel-pigs, and until you strap some 150HP+ motors on them, water sports are about impossible. If I wanted to take an hour to go 2 miles, I'd get a sailboat!
 
SoonerAviator said:
Sorry, still would never own one. Deck boat would be about as close as I could get if I wanted the layout, but the pontoon hull is atrocious. :goofy:

They handle waves/chop like crap, are fuel-pigs, and until you strap some 150HP+ motors on them, water sports are about impossible. If I wanted to take an hour to go 2 miles, I'd get a sailboat!
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Pontoon boats are best on small backyard lakes of a few hundred acres max, or inland waterway where speeds are restricted anyway and you put an 8hp motor on it and do 6 kts. They work ok on somewhat larger lakes with up to 25hp and 18 kts. After that they are not particularly effective.

What they are great for is salvage barges to raise sunken boats as well as private car ferries when you live on a very sheltered, delta, island. The public ferry schedule was unacceptable so we reinforced the deck on 19' aluminum pontoon boat to get back and forth.

You can put several together as a cheap foundation for a houseboat as well.
 
N801BH said:
Wow....

You really have 20 foot tides in Seattle???:dunno:....:confused:
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Depends where exactly, but yeah roughly. Not -20 though since tide is calculated off a mean low lower water datum. Only extreme spring tides get negative, then only a bit.
 
Henning said:
Pontoon boats are best on small backyard lakes of a few hundred acres max, or inland waterway where speeds are restricted anyway and you put an 8hp motor on it and do 6 kts. They work ok on somewhat larger lakes with up to 25hp and 18 kts. After that they are not particularly effective.

What they are great for is salvage barges to raise sunken boats as well as private car ferries when you live on a very sheltered, delta, island. The public ferry schedule was unacceptable so we reinforced the deck on 19' aluminum pontoon boat to get back and forth.

You can put several together as a cheap foundation for a houseboat as well.
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Lol, I can agree with that. You can also find them for next to nothing as scrap and turn them into a true party barge or dock just by pulling the motor off!
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, I can agree with that. You can also find them for next to nothing as scrap and turn them into a true party barge or dock just by pulling the motor off!
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Exactly, for the same money, you can buy a small rail clamp BBQ pit for your nice boat that holds it over the side, or you can get a pontoon boat, a 5hp eng., and big ass BBQ grill off Craig's list. Now you have a portable floating dock (don't need an engine either, you can just tow it) that you can anchor out in the cove and set up the generator, refrigerator, potty shed, BBQ, shade, and everybody bases their fast boats and skis around it. The main advantage over just using the shore? Way less bugs.
 
kgruber said:
This I've got to see! Henning launching a boat without getting the brakes wet.
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I never get my master cylinder or slide wet. Can't imagine why you would need to.
 
Henning said:
:confused: Keep them lubed and adjusted and they always work fine for me, doesn't get much simpler. The only PITA is getting out and engaging the brake lock out for backing it up a hill.
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Been a long time since I have seen surge brakes without electric lockout that is activated with the back up lights.

I have multiple trailers. My boat trailer has surge brakes and work as good as my electric brakes on my enclosed trailers and require very little maintenance. I really like surge brakes.
 
kgruber said:
This I've got to see! Henning launching a boat without getting the brakes wet.
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I didn't say the brakes, I said the cylinder and the coupler for the surge system. The brakes themselves are basically the same regardless how you apply them. You typically have a standard set of drum brakes, one applied by a hydraulic slave, one applied by a variable electromagnet on an arm that levers a cam expanding the shoes using friction between the magnet and rotating hub. Either way same deal.

You can change to disc brakes, but the same surge unit applies them typically. There are electro/hydraulic brake masters, but they were stupid expensive for something like this.

But I would be happy to demonstrate the other, I do it all the time using forklifts for small boats and Travel Lifts for bigger boats. Happens all the time around here.:dunno:
 
docmirror said:
Plenty/most of boats are made in a mold. It's actually called a 'plug'. Some are hand-laid into the mold, some are chopper gun. The plug makes the shape, not the construction method.
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Actually the plug is what the mold was taken from.
You make the plug, usually a 1 off boat, then use it as the plug to make the mold.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm.. That chart is for Skagway Alaska...

I thought you lived in Washington State...:dunno::dunno::dunno:
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Our tides are not the same as the lower Puget Sound we are usually closer to BC and south east Alaska.

Today we are only running about 10'but July and December we have tides that approach 20'

But Henning does not know we have very shallow launch ramps that require you be out 20-30 feet to get enough water to float the boat off the trailers. Roller trailers not so much, but your not going to get 2' of water until you are way beyond the length of a boat trailer.
 
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Tom-D said:
Our tides are not the same as the lower Puget Sound we are usually closer to BC and south east Alaska.
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Ok...

I do know the further north you go, the greater the tide rise is.... I will do some googling and see what BC tide rise is.... For some reason I "thought" it was in the 7-9 foot range... BRB...
 
N801BH said:
Ok...

I do know the further north you go, the greater the tide rise is....
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careful with the generalities...I can show you 10 meter tides about 20* north of the equator...
 
Clark1961 said:
careful with the generalities...I can show you 10 meter tides about 20* north of the equator...
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Kool...... Show me........

It must be one hell of a tidal surge though......

I grew up in Miami,, about 20 degrees north.. those tides were about 2.2 feet...
 
Tom-D said:
Our tides are not the same as the lower Puget Sound we are usually closer to BC and south east Alaska.

Today we are only running about 10'but July and December we have tides that approach 20'

But Henning does not know we have very shallow launch ramps that require you be out 20-30 feet to get enough water to float the boat off the trailers. Roller trailers not so much, but your not going to get 2' of water until you are way beyond the length of a boat trailer.
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I try not to use those ramps. Even so, you probably rinse the boat, and the surge gear is simple to rinse at the same time. Hit the grease zerks a couple times a year and you're done.
 
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