The worst people in aviation...

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Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
I just got done dealing with them all... Every last one of the *******s in aviation ended up on my doorstep. This past April a dingus in the hangar behind me left his door open and unattended during a windy evening and it blew out the shared wall onto my plane. The damage could have been a LOT worse but the people I dealt with all were.

The guy behind me, who I'm currently choosing to leave his name and address out of this for I'm not sure what reason exactly, left his hangar unattended in a windstorm, with a motorcycle laying on the plane and did not report it to anyone for 36 hours. The hangar owners insurance then contacted me to inform me that they are sure they are not liable and I'm on my own. So then I had to contact my insurance which also was not particularly helpful. They forced me to get a quote from some shady mechanics on the field who waaay underbid the job to get it when they were NOT going to fix the plane adequately.They also took a month to get the quote. I then had to battle insurance to NOT go with these crap mechanics.

This entire time I'm in a friend's hangar who was very supportive, but at the same time very eager for me to be out of it, which only added to the stress... which quite frankly was at a breaking point.

I finally got insurance settled and the repair approved by my mechanic who came over and re-riveted my elevator back on so I could do the ferry flight over to his shop. Things went relatively smoothly except for his hangar getting flooded which happens seasonally.

I try to do everything I can to keep this girl safe and sound, it takes care of me so I ought to do everything I can to take care of it. So this event completely crushed me... glad to have it behind me now and be flying again, albeit with a darker view of aviation. 98% of the people I dealt with were total pieces of **** and wanted nothing but to see me burn and rot. Lawyers wouldn't talk to me, I felt completely defeated, punished, and like I was at fault for an accident I had nothing to do with. It gave me an unquenchable anger any time I thought about aviation and it quite frankly wasn't healthy. Looking back at it I'm still angry and likely will be for a very long time.

I got my plane back, but it's just not the same vigor and joy I used to have in aviation. It's largely been replaced with fear, guarding and mistrust.

**Note - a significant amount of other stressors and problems were not included in this telling, because it doesn't seem like a good idea for them to all be public**

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Sorry to hear.

It’s supposed to be fun. If it’s not, either quit, or take a long break, or take a deep breath and realize our plane problems (mine included) are utter BS compared to the rest of the world’s problems.

Mine was down for almost 3 weeks for a MP gauge, and now into week 2 of annual due to my own squawks/upgrades, but also due to shop vacations and unscheduled work from transients, including some turbines...I feel so 2nd class.

You’re gonna find that you’ll have to advocate for your loved ones just like this in the future. This was just a test.

Also, you didn’t get rid of the original green dija? I couldn’t remember. If you did, ima block ya.
 
Ugh...sorry to hear your woes. Unfortunately, people in aviation are still people, and if they’re backed into a corner, whether of your making, theirs, or some combination thereof, they’ll act like people.:(
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Sorry to hear.

It’s supposed to be fun. If it’s not, either quit, or take a long break, or take a deep breath and realize our plane problems (mine included) are utter BS compared to the rest of the world’s problems.
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Exactly this. I was dealing with some unpleasantness with getting a cracked spinner repaired and painted. But I realized, here I am driving in a fun car to the airport to deal with my plane so I can fly.

Many others are dealing with not having a job or having their business destroyed due to Covid 19. I am definitely in a fortunate situation given everything that is going on in the world.
 
Wow, wind storms, flooding. Sorry to hear about the ordeal, but a 180 like yours is quite a different matter from an ugly looking Piper low wing like mine...that no one (except @Ted DuPuis ) could possibly ever become attached to. ;)

Holy crap, that looks like a pretty flimsy hangar. How do these things survive the snow load in Wisconsin? Or maybe that is just the partition wall held together with Home Depot shelf hardware?

Not surprising the hangar owner's insurance doesn't cover anybody's contents, including airplanes. That is probably stated in the rental agreement? He's only insuring the structure he owns against loss I imagine.

I'm hopeful the negative influences heal with time (and hours in the repaired Skywagon), as general aviation can't afford to lose people like you.
 
2 winters ago, we had a gentleman who didn't want to shovel the snow off his hangar driveway. So, he tried to power his way over the snow berm, lost control and plowed into the hangar across the way.

So, not only did he total his club's aircraft, he also totaled a nice old 172N that belonged to an elderly gentleman who said he'd figured on another year or 2 of weekly pie runs and occasional trips to nearby EAA chapter fly-ins before he got too old to fly. Instead, the airplane was totaled and he decided to hang up his spurs right then and there.

I watched as they loaded up both planes on a flatbed and hauled 'em away. Just a little bit sad. So ridiculous!

@Mtns2Skies, I'd be ****ed too! Some days I just suspect I'm surrounded by idiots. Other days, I'm sure of it!
 
You could replace everything in your story that pertains to aviation with cars, motorcycles, houses, or whatever and experience the same thing. As MauleSkinner wrote, people will act like people.

The incident is behind you, and it would appear that you have been made whole. There’s no sense in losing your health over what has been done, just enjoy the airplane now that it has been completed.
 
At least name and shame the insurance carrier. My claims have been 100% opposite in nature to what you have described. I'd like to avoid your insurer.

If bent metal ruins the joy of flying for you, then get out of it. Get a boat. Made from fiberglass. Without slip neighbors.
 
mondtster said:
The incident is behind you, and it would appear that you have been made whole. There’s no sense in losing your health over what has been done, just enjoy the airplane now that it has been completed.
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I agree. I had a completely different/unrelated life experience a number of years ago that made me bitter and enraged just about any time I thought about it. That feeling lasted for years. Even after I was effectively able to give the offender the big single digit and feel some semblance of revenge, I was still angry about it for a long time afterwards. That was the surprise. Getting even didn't at all make me feel better, I suppose it just made me feel more justified in my anger in some ways, as paradoxical as that must sound. In hindsight, it was very unhealthy and not at all worth it. I completely get the desire to not let things go, or feel that you were wronged and need to be "righted". For me, it took completely leaving the situation that was angering me to actually get over it. Not suggesting you leave aviation of course, but maybe a change of scenery of sorts, so to speak, is in order. For your own health and well being.

This will probably sound patronizing, but that is not my intent. Life isn't fair. Bad things happen to people who don't deserve them. But life is also often undeservingly generous. In the midst of all that frustration, I failed to realize that my life had monumentally improved in the following years. Some of the best years I've had were blanketed in the shadow of me being bitter. And the end result of all that anger and the life decisions it inspired, resulted in my life being 1000 times better and generally stress free and enjoyable. Like I said, it took me a long time to realize that and come to terms with it/chill out. Not worth your time and misery IMHO
 
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mondtster said:
The incident is behind you, and it would appear that you have been made whole.
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Not really. There's about 12k of stuff that's "tweaked" but still legal/in spec. So I'll be out of pocket that much to truly get the plane back to being whole and where it was before this.... And 3.5 months of lost trips and flight time.
schmookeeg said:
At least name and shame the insurance carrier. .
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It's the contract adjuster that most insurance companies use in the area, not the underwriter directly.
35 AoA said:
Like I said, it took me a long time to realize that and come to terms with it/chill out. Not worth your time and misery IMHO
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While I agree with the sentiment, it's not like I can just flip a switch.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Not really. There's about 12k of stuff that's "tweaked" but still legal/in spec. So I'll be out of pocket that much to truly get the plane back to being whole and where it was before this.... And 3.5 months of lost trips and flight time.

It's the contract adjuster that most insurance companies use in the area, not the underwriter directly.

While I agree with the sentiment, it's not like I can just flip a switch.
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Sorry you had to go though all of this. It's annoying (and more) when something that should be resolved well isn't.
 
You may still have options to try and recoup some of your out of pocket expenses. Small claims court being the best one. I did not understand the part about lawyers not wanting to talk to you. I never met a lawyer not willing to talk for his hourly rate. Not one!
 
This is disheartening, but don't let it get you down too much. There are a lot of people in this world who, well suck. And when sizable money becomes involved, even decent people can regress to some level of suckiness. I'm glad you stood up to your insurance company to get it done by your trusted mechanic, some people might not have done that. If you aren't happy with your insurance people, make sure you tell them, there are others out there. However they all want to take your money and pay as little and only if they absolutely have too. I'm guessing some are better than others in this regard. If i was in your shoes, i'd be highly irritated by the whole thing too.
I know you are a stand-up and fair guy, who just wants to enjoy flying and take great care of your plane. Glad you are back in business though, you have a beautiful airplane, enjoy it!
 
You should try some time being on the other side of the fence and dealing with aircraft owners. You don't know the meaning of frustration until you do. :eek:
 
I did damage to my own aircraft that was my own damn fault. I cannot say one bad word about my mechanic, he's awesome. But fighting with the insurance company and its minions was a truly awful experience, so bad that I sent a bit more money to switch carriers. And like you, it was the adjuster. He examined the aircraft, but didn't get any of the numbers he needed (time in service for some of the engine accessories). He insisted my mechanic look it all up, and my mechanic didn't feel like being the adjuster's secretary. My guy is really reasonable, and the adjuster was a real tool. I imagine it must have been pretty bad. I was down for nine months.

There was incident damage that was discovered late, I didn't even file a claim. I'd already paid my deductible, but it was too much hassle.

@Mtns2Skies release your anger, it can only lead you to the dark side. More seriously, life is too short to carry around such negative emotions. The aircraft is just a thing, an asset. It isn't worth getting wrapped up in destructive emotions. You've learned some stuff, now move on. I swear, one of the best things in aviation have been the wonderful souls I've met. I've never met better anywhere. Yeah, there are some bad apples, but the bunch is still really, really good.

If you're still at RYV next year I'll make a special stop on my way to the show. You can vent all you like, I'll even buy the drinks.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Not really. There's about 12k of stuff that's "tweaked" but still legal/in spec. So I'll be out of pocket that much to truly get the plane back to being whole and where it was before this.... And 3.5 months of lost trips and flight time.
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Sounds like you’ve been made whole by the standards of every insurance underwriter/adjuster I’ve ever worked with on similar claims. They’re always annoying and the end result is always dissatisfying but that’s the way it goes. Being salty about it isn’t going to make things better.
 
mondtster said:
Sounds like you’ve been made whole by the standards of every insurance underwriter/adjuster I’ve ever worked with on similar claims. They’re always annoying and the end result is always dissatisfying but that’s the way it goes. Being salty about it isn’t going to make things better.
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You feel like shelling out 12k for something that isn't your fault and "not being salty"?

I feel so "whole".
 
Who owns/controls the hangar and is responsible for the building? Yeah the neighbor maybe shouldn't have left his door open, but the building also shouldn't fall down because of a gust of wind? What if the gust had hit as he was pulling his plane out versus while he was gone? I don't really see this as being the neighbor's fault so much as the building construction/maintenance.
 
Somebody always has it worse. Watch "Tread" on Netflix if you want to see the endgame taken to the extreme. Amazing footage.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You feel like shelling out 12k for something that isn't your fault and "not being salty"?

I feel so "whole".
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There were times in my life where $12K would have put me out of aviation. It wouldn't today, but I've never had $12K I felt like spending to fix something caused by someone else! Sorry you're going through this. I'm sure people telling you other people have it worse will make you feel better though!
 
Man, I feel for you. I dislike (kind words for how I really feel) insurance companies; and particularly, most adjusters.

It really stinks that you have to shell out another $12K to get back to where your bird was before the incident.

I've had good luck with some insurance companies and adjusters... None aviation related.

Aviation is expensive enough without things like this adding more $ to it.

Sorry for your troubles.

One foot in front of the other, carry on.

Blue skies...
 
It is unfortunate that you had to endure the aggravation and downtime, but ultimately, that is what insurance is for: to make you whole after an unforeseen event. It's the insurance company's problem to subrogate the claim to others if necessary or practical, while getting you back to normal again.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
It's the contract adjuster that most insurance companies use in the area, not the underwriter directly.
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Can you appeal to the underwriter?

Ugh, sorry this is happening to you. :(
 
midwestpa24 said:
Who owns/controls the hangar and is responsible for the building? Yeah the neighbor maybe shouldn't have left his door open, but the building also shouldn't fall down because of a gust of wind? What if the gust had hit as he was pulling his plane out versus while he was gone? I don't really see this as being the neighbor's fault so much as the building construction/maintenance.
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Also the 2x4 framing is very minimal and undersized. Building codes here would never approve this structure. I'm guessing this was a larger hangar someone improperly divided? If not to code then the building owner has liability.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Not really. There's about 12k of stuff that's "tweaked" but still legal/in spec. So I'll be out of pocket that much to truly get the plane back to being whole and where it was before this.... And 3.5 months of lost trips and flight time.
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Hmm. How to put this...

I can do a lot of work to formally and politely waste a whole bunch of people’s time for $1K a month for a year. I know what I make per hour.

Stick me with a loss like that in time and money, you’re coming along for the ride.
 
Sorry you have to go through this, particularly as you were getting your aircraft dialed in the way you wanted it. It sucks! Keep venting. It will take time, but this too shall pass...
 
mondtster said:
Sounds like you’ve been made whole by the standards of every insurance underwriter/adjuster I’ve ever worked with on similar claims. They’re always annoying and the end result is always dissatisfying but that’s the way it goes. Being salty about it isn’t going to make things better.
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Hey, leave me out of this.
 
I'd be irate, the only reason we pay out these insurance premiums is that they're supposed to take care of these things if/when they happen. I've fortunately never had to make an aviation insurance claim, only automotive ones and a homeowners once and all for minor stuff and I've generally been satisfied. The trouble with insurance is you only find out how good it is once it's too late.

As far as that hangar divider goes, I'd guess it's not considered structural. Think cubicle dividers in an office. Many of the ones I've seen are just there to separate out different tenant's areas in the hangar and may only be 6-8' high.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You feel like shelling out 12k for something that isn't your fault and "not being salty"?

I feel so "whole".
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I'm on your side. Frustration, aggravation and determination does have a purpose. It keeps you from always being the sheep in the field. It keeps you looking for opportunies to recoup some of the money. I agree with the small claims court. Not sure if an aviation lawyer is the right choice, perhaps an ambulance chaser who happens to be a pilot?

I don't understand the motorcycle on the airplane? His, your's, ????
 
$12k may be a bit much for small claims court - depends on jurisdiction.

I would definitely sue over that kind of money. If in small claims, you could probably run the case yourself. If you do that, you will also learn a lot about the legal system.

And often, an offer to settle will be forthcoming the day before trial.
 
murphey said:
I don't understand the motorcycle on the airplane? His, your's, ????
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His. You can see it in the picture. It tipped over with everything else, hell maybe it brought down the wall. I had broken parts from his moped all over my hangar.
 
I'm not sure about filing a lawsuit against someone. I leave my hangar door open all the time when I go flying and I never thought it would impact anyone else. I agree with others that the structure seems very flimsy, so would you sue the hangar owner? Did the renter of the other plane really cause this?

I rent a city-owned hangar and my agreement with them requires me to carry insurance on my plane and to cover their hangar. My policy should cover me if something like this happened, but luckily I've never had to test this.

As a condition precedent and subsequent to lessee being granted the right to operate at the Airport and to rent the Hangar, Lessee covenants and agrees to carry liability insurance at the minimum of $1,000,000.00 aircraft liability (per occurrence), of $1,000,000.00 property damage (per occurrence) and $100,000.00 bodily injury (per person).
 
I understand the part about being upset with "people". About 6 years ago I had an idiot rear-end me while driving to work. He gave the state patrol and me his insurance information. Or at least what he claimed was his insurance information. I called his insurance company to file a claim and that policy had been cancelled about 6 months earlier. Insurance in mandatory in Washington. I never heard if the state nailed him, but State Farm had no luck getting anything out of him, so I paid my deductible with no reimbursement.

And being unset with someone over time? There's a clown who put us in the hospital for 5 days (me) and 6 days (my wife) over 46 years ago that I would like to strangle to this day. She just had her right hip replaced yesterday due to aftereffects from that idiot running a stop sign and hitting our motorcycle broadside. The only original knee/hip left for her is her right knee. I still pay for the damage to my left ankle now and then, too. That guy almost got me two more times while we were in college. I wonder if he ever learned how to drive a car.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
The hangar owners insurance then contacted me to inform me that they are sure they are not liable and I'm on my own. So then I had to contact my insurance which also was not particularly helpful.
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Curious. Who owns the hangars and who is their insurance provider? And who issued your aircraft policy?
 
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Its sad but these days you often have to involve the law, lawyers, regulatory people in order to get them to honor commitments/correct their erroneous ways.
 
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