The Van’s RV-10 - Is it the perfect airplane?

Morgan3820 said:
The RV 10 is 28% faster than my Arrow while costing 100% more money. On a 400 mile trip the RV 10 arrives 38 minutes earlier. Is that 38 minutes worth $80-100K? A Mooney 201 will keep up speed wise with the RV 10 for much less money. An Aztec will eat the RV 10 for lunch in speed, range, useful load, redundancy.
I would counter it is not all about speed, range. It is all about value.
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Points all well taken.

However, that 38mins is a big deal even for pleasure transportation. Think about it next time you are 38mins out.

I recall once deplaning at KHPN next to a newish Mooney of some model vintage. My 3 passengers stepped out high on the wing and deplaned while I stayed in my seat to look down at the 3 wrinkled almost-ready-for-business people extract themselves from the Mooney and deplane through the single door. That kind of stuff isn't the main course but it was a moment. Understand that I'm a guy that would have eventually owned a Mooney just because of its efficiency.

Not sure what the definition of 'value' is in pleasure craft but the most rewarding thing of done in this part of my life was build to build a plane and then use it as I have. Does that have value? Certainly not for everyone or even most people.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Not $80-100K worth, not to me anyway.

So if speed is so important, why aren’t you guys flying TBM 950’s?
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Come on. Don't be deliberately obtuse. Another universe of price away than an Arrow and a -10.

Plus all the other advantages listed such as room, ability to work on the plane yourself, the latest avionics much cheaper, etc, etc, etc. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have an Arrow, but given the choice, it would be a -10.
 
BrianNC said:
Come on. Don't be deliberately obtuse. Another universe of price away than an Arrow and a -10.

Plus all the other advantages listed such as room, ability to work on the plane yourself, the latest avionics much cheaper, etc, etc, etc. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have an Arrow, but given the choice, it would be a -10.
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OK, I was obtuse, sorry. I just get tired of the plane snobbery.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Depends entirely on how bad you have to pee. :D
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Exactly. The main problem with my current airplane, a DA20-C1 which cruises at 130 TAS, is that we are limited to my girlfriend's three hour bladder. Montreal to Halifax direct over Maine means we don't have to land halfway in the U.S. and clear customs just to pee.
 
Speaking of $$$$ and value, here is one of the many reasons EAB builder/owners do what they do.

(Removed because membership is required to view)


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Morgan3820 said:
OK, I was obtuse, sorry. I just get tired of the plane snobbery.
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Pilots are a small fraternity made up of smaller fraternities. As a whole we look down on non pilots. As individuals, we look down on each other and each other’s planes. It’s just who we are. A bunch of arrogant aholes.
 
If it was really *perfect* I wouldn't have to trust myself or some variably trained shmuck to build it.

I surely wouldn't fly in anything I built myself :confused::eek:
 
Todd82 said:
If it was really *perfect* I wouldn't have to trust myself or some variably trained shmuck to build it.

I surely wouldn't fly in anything I built myself :confused::eek:
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After seeing some of the things "trained professionals" have done over the years to my cars, my home, and my properties. Nothing against the majority of skilled, learned, fastidious A/P folks out there, but I would have no qualms in flying something I built myself, simply because, like every other task I undertake where safety is a concern, I don't do anything that I am not absolutely certain about without getting second, third, and fourth opinions from folks who know much more than I.

Having said that, at the age of 58, I doubt very much that I'll ever build a plane, and I don't do as much auto and home improvement work as I used to either. I like to fly, drive, and reside in a nice home way more than I enjoy uncomfortable and sometimes painful mechanical labor. If the price is right, the quality of work is good, and I can afford it, I'd rather pay to have it done so I can do the kind of work I enjoy. Would love an RV10, but the cost and time are both out of consideration. It ain't the worry about whether or not I could build a safe aircraft.
 
I just know that building a plane is exponentially beyond my personal skillset. Hopefully a group of guys cross checking each other at say the Cirrus* factory would catch each other's mistakes and have experience compared to me going at it almost solo. But it's all a moot point because unless I cash out my entire home equity, and trade in my wife for a more understanding (or richer) version, I can't afford a RV10 or anything "new." :sigh:

*NO I'm not advocating Cirrus > Vans, I'm not a Cirrus mark at all just an example, before POA attacks lol
 
Todd82 said:
I just know that building a plane is exponentially beyond my personal skillset.

8<...
But it's all a moot point because unless I cash out my entire home equity, and trade in my wife for a more understanding (or richer) version, I can't afford a RV10 or anything "new." :sigh:
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First off... no, it's really not. You start with the easy stuff and learn as you go. And, you're not the only one building an airplane, or who has built an airplane, so there's usually plenty of help -- to include EAA teach counselors who will be happy to look over your work and/or assist you in learning how to do things. It's really not all that difficult, more tedious than anything. And, yes, expensive.

As for the second point... if you go buy a Cirrus, you'll need to come up with a big old chunk of money all at once. If you build an RV-10, you can spread smaller purchases out over as many years as you need or want to. And remember -- you get to decide how much it costs, you don't have to spend $200K building.
 
Todd82 said:
If it was really *perfect* I wouldn't have to trust myself or some variably trained shmuck to build it.

I surely wouldn't fly in anything I built myself :confused::eek:
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MuseChaser said:
After seeing some of the things "trained professionals" have done over the years to my cars, my home, and my properties. ....
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Just remember, the Ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic was built and sailed by professionals. :D
 
Bottom line on building a kit plane is that you have to find some enjoyment in the build even if your goal is a plane to fly.

On one end of the spectrum are serial builders who really don’t care to fly at all. It’s just an enjoyable project or set of tasks for such people.

On the other end, there are flyers who view the process as a means to a flying end. They see the most rewarding path towards owning and operating the right plane for them is a particular kit plane. To varying degrees, each part of the process has its rewards but the goal is to own and operate a plane they selected, built and maintain.

There’s lots of variations between those poles. But I think there’s a case made that most kits are never finished by the original buyer, so there’s that.

I think I’ll go down to the hangar and see how my repair on the oil access door turned out.


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There was really nothing in the build process for my plane that was beyond most peoples comfort level. All solid rivets of critical structures like the spars etc were done at the factory. No jigs or anything like that needed. So the skills required were drilling holes, using a sharpie marker, following a line with tin snips, pulling rivets ( a task my 10 y/ sons enjoyed), torquing bolts, using a tape measure, and following a step by step manual, only checking off tasks that were completely finished. The volume of work is intimidating, but the actual complexity of the work is quite basic.
 
Check out this RV10 panel refurbishment with Garmin by Park Rapids Avionics. A few more pics at the link.

XsXLCha.png


Garmin G5
Dual screen G3X touch system
Garmin GTN 750 GPS/NAV/COM
Garmin GTR 200 COM
Garmin GTX 34R ADSB Transponder
Garmin GFC-500 Digital Autopilot with electric trim
Garmin GDL51R SXM DATALINK
Artex ELT1000
Mid-Continent USB Charging Port
Complete Custom Powder Coated Instrument Panel

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzYPQaBhaj-/
 
BrianNC said:
Check out this RV10 panel refurbishment with Garmin by Park Rapids Avionics. A few more pics at the link.

XsXLCha.png


Garmin G5
Dual screen G3X touch system
Garmin GTN 750 GPS/NAV/COM
Garmin GTR 200 COM
Garmin GTX 34R ADSB Transponder
Garmin GFC-500 Digital Autopilot with electric trim
Garmin GDL51R SXM DATALINK
Artex ELT1000
Mid-Continent USB Charging Port
Complete Custom Powder Coated Instrument Panel

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzYPQaBhaj-/
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Having bought a subset of that stuff myself I'm guessing he spent at least $40k.
 
Think I would prefer the AFS gear.
 
FORANE said:
Think I would prefer the AFS gear.
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The challenge I've always had with AFS is that is is a small brand under the Dynon umbrella. I don't see Dynon going away any time soon, but AFS is the smallest of the top tier players (Garmin, Dynon, AFS, maybe GRT) and I would hate to turn loose a bunch of money and find the products unsupported a year later.
 
Not only do I do my full Garmin setup but the G3X guys helped me out quite of bit on the configurations. That said, Garmin, AFS, Dynon, it’s all cool stuff.
 
BrianNC said:
Check out this RV10 panel refurbishment with Garmin by Park Rapids Avionics. A few more pics at the link.

XsXLCha.png


Garmin G5
Dual screen G3X touch system
Garmin GTN 750 GPS/NAV/COM
Garmin GTR 200 COM
Garmin GTX 34R ADSB Transponder
Garmin GFC-500 Digital Autopilot with electric trim
Garmin GDL51R SXM DATALINK
Artex ELT1000
Mid-Continent USB Charging Port
Complete Custom Powder Coated Instrument Panel

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzYPQaBhaj-/
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That switch panel looks snazzy.
 
Stevea621j said:
There was really nothing in the build process for my plane that was beyond most peoples comfort level. All solid rivets of critical structures like the spars etc were done at the factory. No jigs or anything like that needed. So the skills required were drilling holes, using a sharpie marker, following a line with tin snips, pulling rivets ( a task my 10 y/ sons enjoyed), torquing bolts, using a tape measure, and following a step by step manual, only checking off tasks that were completely finished. The volume of work is intimidating, but the actual complexity of the work is quite basic.
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Exactly. Well described.

Honestly, I never really learned to use the tin snips, I did all my cutting with what is called a die grinder I guess.


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kyleb said:
The challenge I've always had with AFS is that is is a small brand under the Dynon umbrella. I don't see Dynon going away any time soon, but AFS is the smallest of the top tier players (Garmin, Dynon, AFS, maybe GRT) and I would hate to turn loose a bunch of money and find the products unsupported a year later.
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Always a possibility. I committed to GRT back around 2008, first flight in 2011 and still going strong. Support is thin but excellent.

There are several avionics shops out there that can do eye popping panels on ‘10s no matter what gear you use. In my case I took the full quick build path on the airframe (wings and forward fuselage framed up) but ended up doing my own avionics and dual bus/batt/alt electrical system. It was perhaps the most satisfying aspect of the build and it enabled me to have synthetic vision and fully coupled approaches from day one.

There are lots of Web resources around electrical systems and lots of support and options for avionics. For this DIY builder, something called Approach Fast Stack made the wiring together of my very custom panel a snap.I told them what units I was installing and a very general description of how I wanted it all to work. They gave me box that I just plugged the factory harnesses into and Voila - it all worked exactly as it should, my general description of how it should work notwithstanding. And it was fully documented to boot.
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=5253
 
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