the Turbo 182 is back in production

[steingar]

Don’t mean to pry, but how much do you have in checking, savings, 401K, IRA’s, ETF’s, mutual funds, crypto…

Nothing wrong with anyones chosen profession but they don’t all pay the same. Not everyone decided to become a teacher.

My apologies if you feel I was being too obtrusive. I was quite serious, I honestly don't mean for anyone to divulge personal financial information on the internet. I was merely curious if you were seriously considering purchasing one of these when they come available. I'm poor as a church mouse and am considering leaving aviation altogether.

 

[flightwriter]

Turbo 182 was paused in 2013...the same time Cessna acquired Columbia. Had to kill the Columbia/350/400/Corvallis/ TTX in order to bring the 182T back.

Actually, it was the failure of the 182 diesel that precipitated the return.

And, Cessna purchased Columbia in 2007. Textron Aviation announced the turbodiesel "Turbo 182" at AirVenture 2012.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

There aren't a lot of people with the interest and cash to buy a new turbo 182 for $650k, but there a quite a few who could get together in 10-member clubs for $65k each.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Not sure what the relevance of you quoting my post is? I replied to a guy that was prying into someone’s personal finances online. (While humorously saying “Don’t mean to pry”).

If you don’t see value in something then don’t buy it. Are you suggesting that because you don’t see the value then no one should? Do you go on Bugatti message boards and tell them that? I’m confused

Well, I can see the relevance, as you mentioned that not everyone chose the same profession, and I was essentially saying that even if they chose a profession that allowed them to buy an overpriced Cessna or VW, it doesn't mean that they will. But someone will buy these Cessnas, at that price, for better or worse.

 

[Stephen Shore]

I get not seeing the "value" in a new T182T at $650K. But....I don't see the value in a new Cirrus 22T @ $1.2M even less so. And there is a year long waiting list for one of those.

Cessna I am sure did extensive market studies before they decided to do this. This was definitely not some "do it and hope for the best" type of business decision.

I hope someone I know buys one so that I can go for a ride! A friend is about to take delivery of his SR 22T next month. I will be in line for a ride.

 

[N1120A]

It is overpriced. All new US built pistons are overpriced. That said, the financing is better than ever. Plenty of Cirrus aircraft are being financed.

Don't mean to pry, but you actually got the scratch to buy a new Cessna? That's pretty rarified territory.

You'd be surprised at how creative the financing is.

What's the point of the T182T having a heated prop if the rest of the plane doesn't have any ice protection?

182s are available with FIKI TKS.

 

[Tantalum]

overpriced Cessna

but who's to say what 'overpriced is' ..? I agree the pricing is ridiculous, but all of GA seems ridiculous, at least when compared to the typical salary and what panes 'used to cost' brand new (circa 1950-1970)

Housing is overpriced in many (most?) markets too.. but supply and demand.. just a sad fact of life. In my opinion a brand new turbo plane for $650K is less overpriced than what most of the 50 year old hodge podge relic 172/182 on trade a plane are asking. But that's what the market dictates.. c'est la vie

the financing

now THOSE are a siren song indeed..! That SEE Aerostar hit the market btw =P

 

[genna]

650K$ is certainly expensive, but I'm not sure it's overpriced. At least relative to both used and new plane market. New SR20 is about the same price. Arguably a turbo 182 is more of a plane than that. And used(especially from this century) 182s aren't exactly cheap either.

 

[SkyDog58]

Don’t mean to pry, but how much do you have in checking, savings, 401K, IRA’s, ETF’s, mutual funds, crypto…

Nothing wrong with anyones chosen profession but they don’t all pay the same. Not everyone decided to become a teacher.
[/QUOTE]
No but I’m sure glad that many people do. We need highly qualified and competent teachers in this country.

 

[SkyDog58]

I would like to have a turbo 182.


(notice I said HAVE, not buy...)

Me too, especially if it is sitting on a set of amphib floats.

 

[mondtster]

but who's to say what 'overpriced is' ..?

As I'm sure you know, It's a matter of opinion. While many casual flyers don't see the value in a new airplane, some do. A friend of mine has bought 7 brand new piston airplanes since 2000 and many more late model, low time aircraft, all for personal enjoyment. He's not the only one I know of that has bought new airplanes and sees the value in them.

I live in the sticks where cost of living is relatively low and so are incomes. And people still seem to have enough spare cash to buy these things.

In my opinion a brand new turbo plane for $650K is less overpriced than what most of the 50 year old hodge podge relic 172/182 on trade a plane are asking. But that's what the market dictates.. c'est la vie

Agreed.

 

[asicer]

I get not seeing the "value" in a new T182T at $650K. But....I don't see the value in a new Cirrus 22T @ $1.2M even less so. And there is a year long waiting list for one of those.

Cessna I am sure did extensive market studies before they decided to do this. This was definitely not some "do it and hope for the best" type of business decision.

A better comparison would be a non-turbo 182T. Would be interesting to know the incremental cost of adding the blower. Anyone know?
(I'd imagine that flight schools would be disinterested in forced induction, so that probably changes the pricing dynamics a fair bit)

 

[JustinD]

A better comparison would be a non-turbo 182T. Would be interesting to know the incremental cost of adding the blower. Anyone know?
(I'd imagine that flight schools would be disinterested in forced induction, so that probably changes the pricing dynamics a fair bit)

182T seems to be starting at $600,000 and the T182T seems to be $653,00

when I got my 182T back in 2012 the cost difference between the T and the TT was about the same. Of course the overall cost of both was signicanfly lower but the delta between the two was roughly the same if I recall correctly. So 53k essentially gets you the blower, built in O2 system and the hot prop, but at a loss or roughly 100lbs useful load.

 

[oilburner]

It is also a great thing as an owner to have your aircraft variant still in production. I have a 78 Decathlon. The new ones coming out of the ACA factory today are identical in many ways. I love being able to call the factory and get advice and parts from the TC holder.[/QUOTE]

It is beneficial to own a model still in production; the O2 bottle in my T182T recently timed out at 15 yrs & the only source for a replacement was from the production line ($4300). These parts will only get harder to find & more $$ with time, if at all.

 

[eman1200]

Don’t mean to pry, but how much do you have in checking, savings, 401K, IRA’s, ETF’s, mutual funds, crypto…

Nothing wrong with anyones chosen profession but they don’t all pay the same. Not everyone decided to become a teacher.

rich man bad, right?

I was kinda questioning nordicdave's comment though.......he mentioned he is a target customer, but then went on to list his flight profile requirements and how a 182T meets those requirements. those are two vastly different statements. "I am a target customer" could mean he's actually moving forward with a purchase. and good for him if he can afford one or 10 brand new 182T's, I'd be happy for him, and it should be none of anyone's business whether someone can or can't afford something. but the other comment basically says "I need what a 182T offers". it doesn't mean he's buying one. it could just mean a 182T would be good for his type of flying. so in that respect, I'm kinda curious the intention of his statement.

 

[3393RP]

Hint: you’re not the target market

 

[3393RP]

...the general $$ thing. Again, I would imagine all the tooling, R&D, etc., is paid for.. it's not just Textron, it's GA in general. A base price of $650K for a single engine piston is a hard one to swallow.. but that's the world we live in.

You live in San Diego, right?

Compare that $650K airplane to this 676 SF two bedroom shotgun house located just north of the I-15 and I-805 junction. It's listed for $790K.

https://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/3615-Landis-St-92104/home/5326168

We all realize what's going on with SoCal single family home prices. The same thing is happening here in the DFW area. Listing prices increased almost 20% between 4Q 2020 and 4Q 2021.

Why am I comparing the cost of a T182T to a house?

Because, as all of us intelligent pilot types know, you can sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly the house. The T182T is obviously the better use of our money.

 

[genna]

Because, as all of us intelligent pilot types know, you can sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly the house. The T182T is obviously the better use of our money.

Ahm.

 

[NoHeat]

you can sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly the house.

 

[Tantalum]

Because, as all of us intelligent pilot types know, you can sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly the house.

True story! Unfortunately this argument has not worked with my girlfriend it just yet..!

I'm still renting like a raging loser but the value proposition for now just isn't there to spend over a million dollars on a few hundred square feet in a depressing part of town..

 

[asicer]

Because, as all of us intelligent pilot types know, you can sleep in the airplane, but you can't fly the house.

Getting a HECL on the house to help finance the T182T is easier than the other way around.

 

[Rockymountain]

I don't have much time in the T182T, but did fly a new one a couple of times. I was very impressed with the performance hot and high. Took off in Ogden UT and cleared the 9000 ft. mountains 5 miles to the east without circling. Not many planes will make that climb gradient, especially in the summer. Comfortable, capable, good plane.

 

[PaulMillner]

Based on a 6% interest rate and this guess:

$3,508.83

You could shorten the loan to 600 months and the payment only goes up to $3,684.83.

I would absolutely love a new 182T but based on these $ no way in hell.... unless my long-lost Uncle Jeff Bezos dies or something.

Who finances for 50 years or 100 years?

 

[weilke]

What's the point of the T182T having a heated prop if the rest of the plane doesn't have any ice protection?

There is somewhat of a window where the loss of climb ability from the prop icing up is more of a problem than the slower buildup of ice on the wings and tail. In that setting, maintaining climb for a few more minutes to pop out of the top of those clouds is all you need.

None of this is designed to cruise in ice.

 

[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

Who finances for 50 years or 100 years?

Nobody. I was playing along with the joke.

 

[Salty]

Nobody. I was playing along with the joke.

Actually, all of us. In the form of our federal government.

 

[cruiserandmax]

I used to fly a well equipped TR182 in the early 2000's acquired for well under $150k that would blow the pants off the new T182T. It had an HSI GNS430 and multi-axis AP with GPSS.. You could probably still go this way and come out way ahead of the cost/performance compared to a new T182T, although now that same TR182 would probably run you over $200k.. But still..

 

[NordicDave]

I get not seeing the "value" in a new T182T at $650K. But....I don't see the value in a new Cirrus 22T @ $1.2M even less so. And there is a year long waiting list for one of those.

Cessna I am sure did extensive market studies before they decided to do this. This was definitely not some "do it and hope for the best" type of business decision.

The customer is 99% always a corporation. Depending on the tax year a piston aircraft like this has 50-100% tax deduction. Believe this year is still 100%? A small business with $3M in taxable revenue now pays tax on $2.15M. Likely Ballpark $150K reduction in fed/state tax off setting the plane. Then the tax code requires annual depreciation further reducing income tax payments.

In five years the tax man has paid for 1/2 the plane. These are just gross guesstimates numbers for illustration/discussion.

 

[NordicDave]

If you are seeing 165 KTAS in a T182 you are operating at >80% power setting.

I'm pushing the power at 165 TAS, but not over 80%. The plane has several STC's - twin turbo-normalized, Robertson STOL, Hartzell 3 blade TopProp. I'm also a proponent of running 2" over square which improves efficiency.

Actually depending on conditions pretty common to see 161-164 sometimes 165/166 TAS. I've also had occasionally unreal tail winds up high, wow is that fun.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Yeah. Great plane, but keep in mind that if you mishandle the turbo, it can be about $150,000 mistake. Maybe less. The one I saw roasted was a 206. The 182 might be a less costly mistake.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

Hate to resurrect a thread from 10 months ago, but the renewed 182T production has piqued my interested. I reached out to a sales rep from Cessna and got a chance to review the pricing, options, etc. They're currently looking at 18 months from order to delivery. The 2022 model year was announced with a base price of $653k. Model year 2023 is already sold out.

As for 2024, they're starting at $760k. That's an annual price increase of $53k. For model year 2025 it's going to be $820k. This comes directly from Textron.

I'm all for flying 70 year old airframe with modern tech, but these prices are Cirrus SR-22 territory. I honestly don't know what Cessna is thinking.

 

[wheaties]

I honestly don't know what Cessna is thinking.

They probably are thinking they'll sell all of 3-10 for all of 2024; less for 2025. It will have far less economies of scale compared with even the anemic production at Cirrus.

 

[Salty]

They are thinking that they don’t want to sell any.

 

[red4golf]

I talked with a Cessna rep a few years ago at a trade show. The display showed how much they care about our opinion and needs... It was 1 young guy on a stool with a banner that had a 172 on it. There were no pens, business cards, candy, etc..... I asked what the price of a new model (2015 or so) was and asked how many people buy at that price. He simply said enough to keep production going. He acted like I was bothering him so I went else ware.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

There were no pens, business cards, candy, etc..... I asked what the price of a new model (2015 or so) was and asked how many people buy at that price. He simply said enough to keep production going. He acted like I was bothering him so I went else ware.

With questions like that, you probably were bothering him.

 

[Tantalum]

I honestly don't know what Cessna is thinking

They don't care about piston GA. It's as simple as that. The 172 line (and by default, their piston line) stays open for flight schools.

The RD, tooling, and jigs are there and paid off. So if someone orders a new 182 or 206 or Bonanza they've got the tools and ability to build it. But there's no volume so it will cost a bespoke price. How much does a custom car cost to build? Their a for profit business and figure that's the fully for profit price to have someone hand build a pane if it gets ordered. Engines and G1000 aren't cheap, I bet their actual profit margin is thin on these once you figure $50-$150/hr labor and the fixed costs of materials, avionics, engine.

Where Cirrus still has the "volume" (relatively) they've embodied a fully lean production cycle leveraging automation. In the 1970s I'm sure Cessna did too. But today? It's just easier to keep in in quasi Cirrus price range and charge a one off hand made price. Sure, it's not luxury, but people overpay for Jeeps too because "iT cAn Go OFfrOaD"

Mind you, I hate high wings less than I used to. In fact I've fallen for our no-struct 210L Centurion in the club. What a great and solid feeling plane. Fast, comfortable, great W&B, and just feels like an absolute beast

But there's no reason to buy a new piston plane today. If you want new, get a Cirrus, if you want new that's not a Cirrus, build a Vans. Otherwise for $300K you can buy just about whatever you want on the used market, including 210, 206, 182, Bonanza, all that good stuff.

 

[genna]

Hate to resurrect a thread from 10 months ago, but the renewed 182T production has piqued my interested. I reached out to a sales rep from Cessna and got a chance to review the pricing, options, etc. They're currently looking at 18 months from order to delivery. The 2022 model year was announced with a base price of $653k. Model year 2023 is already sold out.

As for 2024, they're starting at $760k. That's an annual price increase of $53k. For model year 2025 it's going to be $820k. This comes directly from Textron.

I'm all for flying 70 year old airframe with modern tech, but these prices are Cirrus SR-22 territory. I honestly don't know what Cessna is thinking.

They are thinking 2023 at whatever the that crazy price was is already sold out. We can increase the prices. Also, this is not even close to a new SR-22 territory. And good luck getting an SR22 in 18 months

 

[Tantalum]

The display showed how much they care

Their piston display at OSH is always pathetic, it's clear the focus is on commercial and turbine ops. Can't really blame them, that's where the money is

 

[donjohnston]

They are thinking that they don’t want to sell any.

The line was shut down for almost 10 years. If they don't want to sell any, why bother starting up the line and build them?

 

[IK04]

My guess is $700,000.

Not even close. That Albatross will be at least a $Million...