The real entry-level jobs are disappearing

[Henning]

If Walmart has great advancement opportunity, then why use the phrase "get off his ass and do something else" as if working at Walmart is like doing nothing?

Working at WalMart is doing nothing, in fact it's worse, it's helping along the destruction of our society. Work for WalMart is selling your soul for junk.

 

[overdrive148]

Working at WalMart is doing nothing, in fact it's worse, it's helping along the destruction of our society. Work for WalMart is selling your soul for junk.

Then how can you advocate that it's a great place to advance? How about working for McDonalds, is that destroying society? I don't understand your argument

 

[SCCutler]

Working at WalMart is doing nothing, in fact it's worse, it's helping along the destruction of our society. Work for WalMart is selling your soul for junk.

I am tolerably confident that, if enough people found Walmart repugnant as a place at which to shop and to work, that they would (respectively) refuse to shop there, and decline to work there. Walmart would then fail.

 

[Dav8or]

Then how can you advocate that it's a great place to advance? How about working for McDonalds, is that destroying society? I don't understand your argument

Don't worry too much about it. Henning just says stuff and sometimes he contradicts himself.

 

[overdrive148]

Don't worry too much about it. Henning just says stuff and sometimes he contradicts himself.

But I thought contradicting yourself was a key step in forming a solid argument backed up by facts!

 

[kyleb]

I am tolerably confident that, if enough people found Walmart repugnant as a place at which to shop and to work, that they would (respectively) refuse to shop there, and decline to work there. Walmart would then fail.

I think most people find it to be a bad experience. But if it comes down to having food on the table and inexpensive lifestyle items, or sacrificing that to make a stand against Wal-Mart, most people are going to opt for more food and more consumer goods. That's just the way it is.

But Henning does have a point. Wal-Mart built its brand 30 years ago by promoting low prices and "Made in America". They used that to run all of the mom and pop retailers out of business, then shopped everything to the lowest bidder, regardless of where the bidder was located. As it turned out, they are mostly in China.

The factory workers who used to make (and buy) the Sunbeam products, or Coleman products, or other ex-US brands Wal-Mart carried lost those middle class jobs when the manufacturing jobs went overseas. Now they are largely working in lower paying service sector jobs (like Wal-Mart offers.) Wal-Mart sold its customer base (those factory workers) down the river.

 

[denverpilot]

But Henning does have a point. Wal-Mart built its brand 30 years ago by promoting low prices and "Made in America". They used that to run all of the mom and pop retailers out of business, then shopped everything to the lowest bidder, regardless of where the bidder was located. As it turned out, they are mostly in China.

That all happened when Sam Walton died and left his legacy to his kids, who chose to destroy it, while ****ing on dad's grave.

 

[Henning]

Then how can you advocate that it's a great place to advance? How about working for McDonalds, is that destroying society? I don't understand your argument

Welcome to life in America, destruction is advance, we destroy and waste at every opportunity.

McDonalds is pretty neutral. They buy from within the economy and they distribute within the economy. Their main profit is in the land holdings they acquire.

 

[Henning]

I am tolerably confident that, if enough people found Walmart repugnant as a place at which to shop and to work, that they would (respectively) refuse to shop there, and decline to work there. Walmart would then fail.

That will never happen, there is no level of repugnance that cannot be overcome with 50¢ off. When we support the WalMart workforce on welfare, we have to realize that there is something wrong with the model of capitalism we operate under. It really take the "Private Profits, Public Costs" ethos to a whole new level.

 

[Alexb2000]

That will never happen, there is no level of repugnance that cannot be overcome with 50¢ off. When we support the WalMart workforce on welfare, we have to realize that there is something wrong with the model of capitalism we operate under. It really take the "Private Profits, Public Costs" ethos to a whole new level.

So I went into all American Radio Shack to buy a battery one of those CR2450's. They were out, but the price was $7.59. I walk across the parking lot to Walmart, because I needed the battery now. Walmart's price was $3.29. So a $4 difference on the price of a battery or an additional 130% markup by Radio Shack.

If I was working for $10 an hour pre-tax, you can bet I wouldn't work 30 minutes extra to buy a watch battery from Radio Shack instead of Walmart. I don't think you would either and politics wouldn't figure into it one bit.

 

[PaulS]

So I went into all American Radio Shack to buy a battery one of those CR2450's. They were out, but the price was $7.59. I walk across the parking lot to Walmart, because I needed the battery now. Walmart's price was $3.29. So a $4 difference on the price of a battery or an additional 130% markup by Radio Shack.

If I was working for $10 an hour pre-tax, you can bet I wouldn't work 30 minutes extra to buy a watch battery from Radio Shack instead of Walmart. I don't think you would either and politics wouldn't figure into it one bit.

Off topic, but if you go to ebay, you can buy 25 for 9 bucks......

 

[Henning]

So I went into all American Radio Shack to buy a battery one of those CR2450's. They were out, but the price was $7.59. I walk across the parking lot to Walmart, because I needed the battery now. Walmart's price was $3.29. So a $4 difference on the price of a battery or an additional 130% markup by Radio Shack.

If I was working for $10 an hour pre-tax, you can bet I wouldn't work 30 minutes extra to buy a watch battery from Radio Shack instead of Walmart. I don't think you would either and politics wouldn't figure into it one bit.

But that isn't what you payed WalMart for your batteries. You paid WalMart $3.29, plus an undetermined premium out of your paycheck to pay for the welfare that pays their costs.

Besides, there is Batteries Plus behind Radio Shack where I can buy the battery for $3.50 and be out in 2 minutes instead of waiting half an hour in line behind some 400lb woman in a yoga outfit.

 

[Alexb2000]

But that isn't what you payed WalMart for your batteries. You paid WalMart $3.29, plus an undetermined premium out of your paycheck to pay for the welfare that pays their costs.

Besides, there is Batteries Plus behind Radio Shack where I can buy the battery for $3.50 and be out in 2 minutes instead of waiting half an hour in line behind some 400lb woman in a yoga outfit.

All I'm saying is that the .50 mark down you alluded to earlier isn't the issue. It's the 50% off that gets peoples attention. I don't think you can expect people to absorb that price differential spending several hundred dollars a month at Walmart.

BTW- No batteries plus nearby, which gets into the validity of spending an additional 30 minutes driving to avoid Walmart, also not going to happen in the real world.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Some of these comments are hilarious. I have worked for, run, and started several corporations. At no point did I waste one second of time worrying about politics, altruism, or any of the other "cry in my beer" bar stool theoretical crap.

Running a company in America is a day-to-day fight for survival. I started my day at 4am and finished no earlier than 9pm. You are competing with foreign companies that enjoy state sponsorship, no employees rights, financial backing that permits losing significant money just to get the business, zero taxes, etc. All advantages that a U.S. company will never have.

The soldiers in this fight (employees) are all straight mercenaries. They will take 3 months of family leave, thousands of dollars in training, accommodations for their kids soccer schedule, work flex time, and then leave you for .50 more an hour without a second of remorse or notice. Those that stay wait until you really need them and then hold you up for more money. That or they are always looking for a job and use any offers they get to demand more money. It's pretty hard to survive long term with employees that expect a minimum 10% raise every year with revenues growing 2-3%.

Of the employees that do stay most of them have less than zero morals. I had a large group of programmers working for me. They said they needed better chairs because their backs were hurting after sitting at a keyboard all day. I wanted to provide a good environment, so I go out and buy 30 Herman Miller Aeron chairs at a $1000 per. Nine months later we are truing our balance sheet, only two chairs were left in the building, the others were all stolen.

The counter point to this conversation is that most people are no damn good. Automation is the surest way to solve it, which works out well since most people don't want to work anyway. This is a two way street.

Thankfully, I don't have $1000 chairs to steal -- only soaps, towels, and DVDs. But, otherwise, our experiences are very similar.

Right now, with everyone on this island unemployed (it's the off-season), I have no problem with employees. God, they are all so wonderfully cooperative and ready to work! -- cuz I don't have anything for them to do.

In July, when we desperately need them, and don't have time to take a dump, they will jack us for whatever they can get, and walk out if the hotel down the street offers them 25 cents more an hour.

Better yet, I could fire them for theft, and they would have a job in 20 minutes. That's how desperate everyone is for workers in the summer.

 

[Jay Honeck]

But that isn't what you payed WalMart for your batteries. You paid WalMart $3.29, plus an undetermined premium out of your paycheck to pay for the welfare that pays their costs.

You know, I read this B.S. about Walmart all the time -- and my answer is always the same: Okay -- eliminate welfare! Make Walmart "pay their fair share".

No? I didn't think so.

I hate Walmart for a myriad of reasons, none of which include their employee's salaries. They pay their people exactly what it takes to keep them working, and not a penny more. Which is as it should be.

 

[Henning]

All I'm saying is that the .50 mark down you alluded to earlier isn't the issue. It's the 50% off that gets peoples attention. I don't think you can expect people to absorb that price differential spending several hundred dollars a month at Walmart.

BTW- No batteries plus nearby, which gets into the validity of spending an additional 30 minutes driving to avoid Walmart, also not going to happen in the real world.

But it's not really 50% since you have a WalMart 'fixed cost' in your budget from your paycheck even if you never buy anything there.

 

[Henning]

You know, I read this B.S. about Walmart all the time -- and my answer is always the same: Okay -- eliminate welfare! Make Walmart "pay their fair share".

No? I didn't think so.

I hate Walmart for a myriad of reasons, none of which include their employee's salaries. They pay their people exactly what it takes to keep them working, and not a penny more. Which is as it should be.

No, that's not as it should be, because that does not provide the best result.

 

[wsuffa]

BTW- No batteries plus nearby, which gets into the validity of spending an additional 30 minutes driving to avoid Walmart, also not going to happen in the real world.

And that is the reason that I will, on rare occasion, go to Wally World near my rural property. 30 minutes each way makes a difference when you're battening down for an approaching storm and need rope.

No, that's not as it should be, because that does not provide the best result.

When there is a lack of competition, "best result" is a relative term. When competition is lacking, or is beyond reasonable distance, "best result" may simply be the ability to buy a product in a timely manner.

Exactly the same reason that gas stations in the D of C are $1.00/gallon above the prices in the Virginia suburbs.

 

[Merf]

Been working 50 years. Never had a problem finding a job. People think the jobs come to you.

 

[denverpilot]

So I went into all American Radio Shack to buy a battery one of those CR2450's. They were out, but the price was $7.59. I walk across the parking lot to Walmart, because I needed the battery now. Walmart's price was $3.29. So a $4 difference on the price of a battery or an additional 130% markup by Radio Shack.



If I was working for $10 an hour pre-tax, you can bet I wouldn't work 30 minutes extra to buy a watch battery from Radio Shack instead of Walmart. I don't think you would either and politics wouldn't figure into it one bit.

There are whole websites dedicated to how awful it was to work at The Shack. I wouldn't hold them up as a "better job" than working at a WalMart. Most WalMart employees would cry themselves to sleep if they had to work in a 1980s Radio Shack store.

 

[wsuffa]

There are whole websites dedicated to how awful it was to work at The Shack. I wouldn't hold them up as a "better job" than working at a WalMart. Most WalMart employees would cry themselves to sleep if they had to work in a 1980s Radio Shack store.

Depends on when and for whom. Some of the RS stores were (at least in the 70's) franchises, and the working conditions were very good or bad depending on the franchisee. Company stores less so.

I worked at one for a year or two during high school to earn gas money - it was a franchise store and the owner was great. Great employee care, great customer care. We got a base plus commission if we exceeded a sales goal each month (I almost always made it).

He was so successful that corporate muscled him out (pretty raw deal) & ended up taking over the stores (after I left).

The stores went downhill from there. It was far better than the other retailers like K-Mart, Bradlees, etc. at the time, and much, much better than working food service. These days, I imagine it would be a toss-up between that and Wally World, though (if it were not the impending restructuring & possible bankruptcy) I might still choose RS over Wally since one can exercise a bit more judgment. That said, RS is a dying entity in today's retail environment. Be sad to lose them altogether because every once in a rare while I need a part they carry *right now* and can't wait for DigiKey or Allied to ship.

 

[Henning]

And that is the reason that I will, on rare occasion, go to Wally World near my rural property. 30 minutes each way makes a difference when you're battening down for an approaching storm and need rope.



When there is a lack of competition, "best result" is a relative term. When competition is lacking, or is beyond reasonable distance, "best result" may simply be the ability to buy a product in a timely manner.

Exactly the same reason that gas stations in the D of C are $1.00/gallon above the prices in the Virginia suburbs.

Best result only changes when you pervert best result into best profit. Otherwise best result is what produces the greatest benefit from the use.

 

[wsuffa]

Best result only changes when you pervert best result into best profit. Otherwise best result is what produces the greatest benefit from the use.

And employee pay is rarely part of the "best result" category in retail sales from the customer standpoint. I want to get in and out with the item I wish to purchase at the best price considering time & cost to go elsewhere. If Home Depot and Wally World have the identical consumable item but it takes me twice as long to get to HD, I'll go to the closer store (provided that the price is comparable). For a product that has a huge price difference, I'll make a rational decision based on the economic value of my time to travel to the cheaper store. If I perceive that some kind of service will be needed on said item (failure-prone), I'll choose based on lowest overall cost to me. Some folks will shop "cheapest" every time. And some will chose the socially-responsible solution (e.g. will choose Costco over Sam's Club).

The value equation changes with situation. I'll pay more per-gallon for gas if I'm going to run out before getting to the cheaper station or there's a huge traffic jam between me and the cheap station. No jam, enough gas to get there? Cheaper it is.

Different for professional services business, where employee pay likely has direct benefit. I'll pay much more for competence than a trainee in a tax accountant or lawyer, for example..

 

[Dav8or]

They pay their people exactly what it takes to keep them working, and not a penny more. Which is as it should be.

Have you considered that if you were the highest paying employer on the island, that maybe your employees wouldn't walk away for .25 cents more, or steal your soap? If the job actually had value and not just disposable and easily replaced, that they might try harder to keep it? It might be nice to be the place that employees are walking towards, putting in applications and competing to get in, instead of walking away without notice and a pocket full of soap and shampoo.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You get the employees you deserve

 

[Henning]

You get the employees you deserve

Yep, same goes for crew on a boat.

 

[dell30rb]

N918KT,

At least you can always take this part time chicken catching job. Oh wait, you need not apply. You don't qualify for this job. Sorry.

I think my Labrador is a prime candidate. He has lots of experience catching many types of fowl. And, being born in the USA would have no problem getting through the government e verify system.

http://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=161b1894e36ae5f8&from=tellafriend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jay Honeck]

Have you considered that if you were the highest paying employer on the island, that maybe your employees wouldn't walk away for .25 cents more, or steal your soap? If the job actually had value and not just disposable and easily replaced, that they might try harder to keep it? It might be nice to be the place that employees are walking towards, putting in applications and competing to get in, instead of walking away without notice and a pocket full of soap and shampoo.

Hilarious. You do realize we are talking about a hotel here, right?

Cleaning rooms is a thankless job with little chance for advancement (although we do try to cross train them on the desk, and vice versa, so that they understand each other) and little room for creativity. I could double the pay today, and IMHO see very little change in turnover.

It's just not a job people do as a career. As a result, we see the people on their way up...or on the way down. They generally don't stay for long -- 6 months is about average, and has been for the last 13 years.

Combine this with the fact that we are in direct competition with Patels (they now own all but three of the hotels on the island), and they use only family as employees. When you're up against that sort of competition, there is little room for payroll increases.

Add to that the highest tax rate of any business, and the margins shrink even more. We pay more in taxes than payroll every year (and that includes Mary and my pay).

And, finally, customers are extremely cost conscious, especially in the off-season. We deliver breakfast to your brand, new aviation themed room every day for $69.95 (at this time of year), and provide a free car to use -- and we routinely get people who demand that we match the Patel down the streets $49 rate. They couldn't care less about anything but price. When we don't, they walk.

These are just a few of the pressures keeping wages low. There are many good reasons why housekeepers earn between $9 and $10/hour here on the island, and 10 to 15% less on the mainland.

And, amazingly, right now I have an in- box full of girls from all over Eastern Europe, wanting to pay their own way to Port Aransas, just so they can clean our rooms this summer. Go figure.

 

[Jay Honeck]

You get the employees you deserve

It's funny. In my experience, the guys who complain loudest about the "way employees are treated" are also the ones who will try the hardest to chisel down the price of a room -- as if there is no connection between one and the other.

They will put 40 gallons of avgas in their Bonanza, and then balk at paying $80 bucks for a room, with delivered breakfast and free use of a Lexus during their stay. The phrase "Can you do any better on that price?" usually follows.

Of course, these are likely the same guys who occupy a table at the bar to watch an entire 3-hour football game, ordering water and eating the free peanuts, or the ones who order $100 worth of food and stiff the waitress for a $5 tip.

Or none at all.

And, yes, we business owners do get together and swap "cheap bastard" stories over beers. And, yes, those are all true.

 

[Florida Cracker]

Hilarious. You do realize we are talking about a hotel here, right?

Cleaning rooms is a thankless job with little chance for advancement (although we do try to cross train them on the desk, and vice versa, so that they understand each other) and little room for creativity. I could double the pay today, and IMHO see very little change in turnover.

It's just not a job people do as a career. As a result, we see the people on their way up...or on the way down. They generally don't stay for long -- 6 months is about average, and has been for the last 13 years.

Combine this with the fact that we are in direct competition with Patels (they now own all but three of the hotels on the island), and they use only family as employees. When you're up against that sort of competition, there is little room for payroll increases.

Add to that the highest tax rate of any business, and the margins shrink even more. We pay more in taxes than payroll every year (and that includes Mary and my pay).

And, finally, customers are extremely cost conscious, especially in the off-season. We deliver breakfast to your brand, new aviation themed room every day for $69.95 (at this time of year), and provide a free car to use -- and we routinely get people who demand that we match the Patel down the streets $49 rate. They couldn't care less about anything but price. When we don't, they walk.

These are just a few of the pressures keeping wages low. There are many good reasons why housekeepers earn between $9 and $10/hour here on the island, and 10 to 15% less on the mainland.

And, amazingly, right now I have an in- box full of girls from all over Eastern Europe, wanting to pay their own way to Port Aransas, just so they can clean our rooms this summer. Go figure.

I am always surprised by the people who listen to someone with actual experience in an industry, and reply with "Gee, what are YOU doing wrong? Gotta be crap they were taught in college, and never experienced the real world of your type of business, which makes them all geniuses.

 

[Henning]

There is more to being an employer than just pay as well.

 

[Florida Cracker]

There is MORE to being an employee than just collecting pay.

 

[Jay Honeck]

There is more to being an employer than just pay as well.

Yup. Right now, with too few hours for our ladies, we have one of them living in one of our rooms. We are collecting baby stuff for her (unexpectedly pregnant) daughter, so my living room is full of baby swings and Porta cribs for the first time in 20 years.

We are a family business, and our employees are part of the family for as long as they wish to work for us.

 

[Henning]

Yup. Right now, with too few hours for our ladies, we have one of them living in one of our rooms. We are collecting baby stuff for her (unexpectedly pregnant) daughter, so my living room is full of baby swings and Porta cribs for the first time in 20 years.

We are a family business, and our employees are part of the family for as long as they wish to work for us.

Exactly my point. I also agree fully there is more to being an employee than collecting pay. There should be a fair exchange of service for goods however it gets worked out.