The 'rachet' method for landings

txflyer

txflyer

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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
A recent article in AOPA mag the instructor was saying he teaches his students what he calls the rachet method for landing.

He says consider the yoke as having rachet teeth so that once you start the flair, you cannot go forward with the yoke, only back. Ending up with it in your belly.

I can see where this may work for three points and nose draggers, but no way on wheelies. Opinions? I'm going to try it, but has anyone tried it?

:)
 
Well, it's not incorrect (except as you say a wheelie) however it requires exact control.
 
I think I subconciously do this. I see lots of guys pump the yoke in the flare, and I tend to think it's unneccesary. That said, whatever works!
 
FastEddieB said:
I use that as a mental image of an ideal landing in calm air.

But if you watch the video below, you'll see in real life it can be more a matter "whatever it takes".

http://youtu.be/ricgcIz2SHI
Click to expand...

Yeah, everything has to be exactly perfect for it to be a reality. I understand the guy's line of thought, and he's not incorrect in concept. As a "this is what you want to achieve to make it perfect." I'm okay with it, except for wheel landings.:lol:
 
Old trick, I've been teaching that for quite some time.

For taildraggers one on the worst things to instill in a student is to "push the stick forward" for wheel landings, you want to keep the plane level to the horizion, likley a similar movement but a very different thought process. Thinking "stick forward" can bite you on unimproved strips or less than ideal conditions.
 
To be fair, most folks learning to fly are flying planes with nose gear. That said, you give the plane the flight control pressure it needs. Sometimes that's relaxing the backpressure a bit to adjust to the conditions.

I agree though, pumping the controls is bad style.
 
Folks with thumb mounted trim control do this, at least i do. I simply start flaring by thumbing back and dont thumb forward unless very necessary.
 
txflyer said:
I can see where this may work for three points and nose draggers, but no way on wheelies. Opinions? I'm going to try it, but has anyone tried it?



:)
Click to expand...

It works for wheel landings...you just don't ratchet as much. More like ease it slowly back and hold it until the wheels touch, then relax the back pressure to pin it vs push forward.
 
Never push forward.... unless you've pulled back too far or too early...
 
Ideally the flare is logarithmic. It starts out slow and accelerates back.

There should be no pumping and the flare motion should never stop until the stick is in your lap.

Also, once an airspeed has been abandoned it should never be reestablished.
 
kgruber said:
Ideally the flare is logarithmic. It starts out slow and accelerates back.

There should be no pumping and the flare motion should never stop until the stick is in your lap.

Also, once an airspeed has been abandoned it should never be reestablished.
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Should be no pumping, unless the cross wind through the trees is throwing rotors across the runway, then you pump your ass off.:lol:
 
kgruber said:
Ideally the flare is logarithmic. It starts out slow and accelerates back.



There should be no pumping and the flare motion should never stop until the stick is in your lap.



Also, once an airspeed has been abandoned it should never be reestablished.
Click to expand...


Well if you pull hard enough at 50' AGL to slow to stall speed, you'd probably better "abandon" the speed you screwed up and chose. (And probably the whole landing, and head back up at Vx or Vy.)

I don't like the ratchet analogy for only that reason. Sometimes people OVER flare and you'd better be willing to pitch and power to fix it, or it'll fix itself with a high sink rate and one hell of a hard arrival.
 
denverpilot said:
I don't like the ratchet analogy for only that reason. Sometimes people OVER flare and you'd better be willing to pitch and power to fix it, or it'll fix itself with a high sink rate and one hell of a hard arrival.
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not to mention gusty conditions...

never heard anyone mention the "rachet" method around BJC
 
Use the controls to make the plane do what you want. Don't overthink it.......
 
Yeah if you ever decide to be really brave pilot and land a SEL plane in a 35 knot gusty crosswind you will do lots of "pumping"
 
Set the controls as you need them to be for the part of the flight you're in. I've seen lots of boneheaded approaches because people were told they couldn't add power.

Rarely a flare needs too much thought and it's likely better to just HOLD your control input if you've started to go too fast (believe me it took my wife a while to not get "impatient" if she flared high and push forward).
 
txflyer said:
A recent article in AOPA mag the instructor was saying he teaches his students what he calls the rachet method for landing.

He says consider the yoke as having rachet teeth so that once you start the flair, you cannot go forward with the yoke, only back. Ending up with it in your belly.

I can see where this may work for three points and nose draggers, but no way on wheelies. Opinions? I'm going to try it, but has anyone tried it?

:)
Click to expand...
One of the theories behind it is that one should never release back pressure on the stick during the flare. I guess it's based on a concern over nosing in.

No way on wheelies? Well, I'm not a proponent of the "never" part of the theory and I do it as a matter of course when I have over-rotated a bit. But the very experienced tailwheel pilot and instructor I did my endorsement with certainly was. Any attempt by me to release back pressure in the slightest (we're talking in terms of eights of an inch) in order to reduce my AoA in the flare for either 3 point or wheel landings was met with fairly harsh criticism.
 
midlifeflyer said:
One of the theories behind it is that one should never release back pressure on the stick during the flare. I guess it's based on a concern over nosing in.
Click to expand...

FWIW, on the B-727-200 one method to get a nice smooth "roll on" landing was just before touchdown to release a small amount of back pressure on the yoke. Also works on the A320 to a certain degree.
 
Rex Kramer said:
Use the controls to make the plane do what you want. Don't overthink it.......
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Words from my first instructor that have never failed me, even in light of numerous silly magazine article techniques over two decades. ;)
 
I pretty much do wheelie's exclusively now unless I just want to do a three point.

I have not tried this ratchet method yet.

I often push forward (or more like just relax the back pressure) right before the mains touch and it gives me some real greasers ... (sometimes).
 
txflyer said:
I pretty much do wheelie's exclusively now unless I just want to do a three point.

I have not tried this ratchet method yet.

I often push forward (or more like just relax the back pressure) right before the mains touch and it gives me some real greasers ... (sometimes).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I find I have to release a little as well as it settles into ground effect.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, I find I have to release a little as well as it settles into ground effect.
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I've learned landing are like snowflakes. There's no two the same.

If I find Duncan's post about how to land a 180, I'll bring it in here. He has a great method where you stay pretty much level all the way down to the pavement using trim and throttle.

The plane stays pretty much at a level attitude with the ground all the way down final and all that's required is a little back pressure when you get about the height of a man. Trim, trim, trim. It's all in the trim. :yesnod:
 
txflyer said:
I've learned landing are like snowflakes. There's no two the same.

If I find Duncan's post about how to land a 180, I'll bring it in here. He has a great method where you stay pretty much level all the way down to the pavement using trim and throttle.

The plane stays pretty much at a level attitude with the ground all the way down final and all that's required is a little back pressure when you get about the height of a man. Trim, trim, trim. It's all in the trim. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

That is pretty much my method on every plane, trim it for my landing speed then use the throttle to dictate where I want it to touch down.
 
I've wheel landed the Flybaby maybe twice. I've three pointed hundreds and hundreds of times. Someday I look forward to flying a Tailwheel where a wheel landing makes more sense but I haven't yet. Although I beleive many of the flybaby guys wheel land but I sure don't see an advantage doing so.
 
jesse said:
I've wheel landed the Flybaby maybe twice. I've three pointed hundreds and hundreds of times. Someday I look forward to flying a Tailwheel where a wheel landing makes more sense but I haven't yet. Although I beleive many of the flybaby guys wheel land but I sure don't see an advantage doing so.
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There is no great advantage in wheel landing most planes. The 195 I normally will because I don't have much time in them and the visibility out of them for me is horrible as my head is up inside the wing pocket knocking out most of my peripheral vision. Beech 18s you normally wheel land because of some wing mount issues caused by stalling in 3 points when heavy. Outside of that, the only time I wheel land is when I accidentally carry too much energy into a landing, then I just let it roll on in a wheel landing.
 
I feel like wheelie's give me more control.

There's a grey moment when doing a three point where it feels like the landing is up to the God's. You can't see out, you don't know exactly what attitude you are at with the ground, and it just feels out of control for a second.

I think the military and other agencies like the coast guard are teaching wheelie's as the safer option. And if you do it right, you can actually stop shorter doing wheelie's. Watch the Valdez boys.
 
txflyer said:
There's a grey moment when doing a three point where it feels like the landing is up to the God's. You can't see out, you don't know exactly what attitude you are at with the ground, and it just feels out of control for a second.
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I heartily disagree.

I've flown a fair sampling of taildraggers, and in each and every one I knew "exactly what altitude" I was throughout the landing process.

Key is looking in the right place. Granted, if someone is in the habit of looking at the far end of the runway, then, yes, they'll be blind for part of the landing. But that's not where they should be looking.

Don't think I would have survived hundreds of hours of tailwheel instruction if I "couldn't see out" and left it in God's hands!

Henning, maybe! :wink2:
 
FastEddieB said:
I heartily disagree.

I've flown a fair sampling of taildraggers, and in each and every one I knew "exactly what altitude" I was throughout the landing process.

Key is looking in the right place. Granted, if someone is in the habit of looking at the far end of the runway, then, yes, they'll be blind for part of the landing. But that's not where they should be looking.

Don't think I would have survived hundreds of hours of tailwheel instruction if I "couldn't see out" and left it in God's hands!

Henning, maybe! :wink2:
Click to expand...




I heartily don't believe you. :nonod:
 
FastEddieB said:
Not currently flying a taildragger, but if I was and had a head-mounted GoPro, I think I could prove it to you! ;)
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Where are you looking to gauge your altitude exactly? Looking out the side or the front quarter tells me nothing.

And you know exactly how far down the gear extend?

And if you notice, I said attitude, not altitude. When I flare for a three point, I never know if all three are going to touch in tandem, or the mains first, or the tail first, or on just one main. It's a rodeo.
 
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