Larry in TN
En-Route
I'm not aware of any recommendation to specifically acknowledge instructions to remain on the current frequency unless there is some doubt in the pilot's mind that he understood correctly.
The phrase "With You"
- Thread starter LongRoadBob
- Start date
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Touché. But you can't "wilco" the taxi instructions anyway and "wilco" is exactly the same number of syllables as "with you" while making it clear that you received that part of the instruction and you're not adding a wilco on the rest. It's very clear and does not take up any extra frequency time the way a "with you" on a check-in does.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
You can definitely Wilco a taxi instruction. While I’d say most read it back, there’s no requirement to do so. Only things required to read back on the ATC end is hold short and LAHSO.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't think that's true any more, it's one of the things that has changed thanks to the FAA's focus on runway incursions. I forget when exactly it changed, but it's since I've been flying (about 15 years).
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
The read back requirement never changed. They changed what the controller had to say back in 2010. They removed “taxi to” and also required them to give detailed taxi instructions which include specific runway crossing instructions enroute to the assigned runway.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, now upon looking for a reference, it was that ATC is now required to get a read-back of any runway hold short instructions. Before the change, it was "taxi to runway xx" and there was an implied clearance across any runway between you and xx. Now, they have to specifically clear you across all runways and they are required to get a read-back of "hold short yy" or "cross yy" upon issuing taxi instructions. FAAO 7110.65X 2-4-3b and 3-7-2g.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
ATC has always been required to get a read back of runway hold short instructions. That wasn’t changed in 2010.
When I was departing KORL a week or so ago, tower told me, “Stay with me a moment. There’s some inbound traffic.” Is he an idiot for using such POA-offensive language? Should I phone the tower to advise them of the correct POA consensus phrasing?
As I recall, I replied with “Roger, 1AB.” I hope he doesn’t think I’m an incompetent dope. I mean, his name probably isn’t Roger, after all.
With such gibberish on the radio, it was probably sheer luck that he was able to point out traffic and help me maintain spacing. Whew! Disaster averted, and next time I’ll be sure to use POA-approved terminology.
If I can just figure out what that is....
As I recall, I replied with “Roger, 1AB.” I hope he doesn’t think I’m an incompetent dope. I mean, his name probably isn’t Roger, after all.
With such gibberish on the radio, it was probably sheer luck that he was able to point out traffic and help me maintain spacing. Whew! Disaster averted, and next time I’ll be sure to use POA-approved terminology.
If I can just figure out what that is....
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hmmmm, with me is not with you? How else could he have said that?
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, but what changed is that they have to specifically clear you to either cross or hold short of every runway between you and where you're going, where they didn't before. Even though the readback hasn't changed, the number of "cross" and "hold short" instructions has dramatically increased, and they all need to be read back.
ChemGuy
Cleared for Takeoff
This discussion bores me. Who wants to meet up on 12345 and talk about inane stuff? Any of you guys alive and with me?
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Oh boy...was that the seal from a can o worms I heard?
Larry in TN
En-Route
AIM 4-3-18 -- Taxiing
a. General
[...]
6.When assigned a takeoff runway, ATC will first specify the runway, issue taxi instructions, and state any hold short instructions or runway crossing clearances if the taxi route will cross a runway. This does not authorize the aircraft to “enter” or “cross” the assigned departure runway at any point. In order to preclude misunderstandings in radio communications, ATC will not use the word “cleared” in conjunction with authorization for aircraft to taxi.
[...]
NOTE--
ATC is required to obtain a read back from the pilot of all runway hold short instructions.
[...]
d. The following phraseologies and procedures are used in radio telephone communications with aeronautical ground stations.6.When assigned a takeoff runway, ATC will first specify the runway, issue taxi instructions, and state any hold short instructions or runway crossing clearances if the taxi route will cross a runway. This does not authorize the aircraft to “enter” or “cross” the assigned departure runway at any point. In order to preclude misunderstandings in radio communications, ATC will not use the word “cleared” in conjunction with authorization for aircraft to taxi.
[...]
NOTE--
ATC is required to obtain a read back from the pilot of all runway hold short instructions.
[...]
1. Request for taxi instructions prior to departure. State your aircraft identification, location, type of operation planned (VFR or IFR), and the point of first intended landing.
EXAMPLE−
Aircraft: “Washington ground, Beechcraft One Three One Five Niner at hangar eight, ready to taxi, I−F−R to Chicago.”
EXAMPLE−
Aircraft: “Washington ground, Beechcraft One Three One Five Niner at hangar eight, ready to taxi, I−F−R to Chicago.”
Tower: “Beechcraft one three one five niner, Washington ground, runway two seven, taxi via taxiways Charlie and Delta, hold short of runway three three left.”
Aircraft: “Beechcraft One Three One Five Niner, hold short of runway three three left.”
Aircraft: “Beechcraft One Three One Five Niner, hold short of runway three three left.”
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,263
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD