The Final Countdown

Velocity173

Velocity173

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Velocity173
So I was watching The Final Countdown the other day with some friends and was thinking about the impact of a carrier going back in time from 1979 to 1941. Obviously that would be a huge difference in technology / capabilities. Then I was thinking about the same carrier (Nimitz) compared to 38 yrs ago.

38 yrs ago VF-84 was accepting F-14s. A carrier back then was basically comprised of F-14s, A-6s, EA-6s, A-7s, S-3s, RF-8s, E-2s, and H-3s. Today that same carrier has F-18Es, F-18Cs, EF-18s, E-2s and H-60s. It's ECM / defense (Phalynx) capability has been obviously upgraded over the years as well.

So my question is, has the same 38 yrs been a similar leap in technology? Is today's Nimitz really that far ahead of the 1979 Nimitz as the 1979 Nimitz was in WWII?
 
Offensively? No.
Defensively? Yes.

Just my opinion.
 
Best thread topic in weeks.

Offensively, add F-35s or F-22s and it would be that much better. F-18 is not a leap from the -14. Tomahawks are a big offensive upgrade from '79.

Defensively, the Phalanx (suck it, Exocet) is amazing as are the F-18s but they don't do stealth and the F-14s were just the coolest. So for the fleet defender to be considered a quantum leap from the -14, it should include stealth but the -18 pilots may disagree. I think too that radar and command/control tech is way better than '79.

Also, thanks for making me think of that keyboard riff from the song!

nanananaaaa... nananananaaaa
 
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petrolero said:
Best thread topic in weeks.

Offensively, add F-35s or F-22s and it would be that much better. F-18 is not a leap from the -14. Tomahawks are a big offensive upgrade from '79.

Defensively, the Phalanx (suck it, Exocet) is amazing as are the F-18s but they don't do stealth and the F-14s were just the coolest. So for the fleet defender to be considered a quantum leap from the -14, it should include stealth but the -18 pilots may disagree. I think too that radar and command/control tech is way better than '79.

Also, thanks for making me think of that keyboard riff from the song!

nanananaaaa... nananananaaaa
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Lol! Thanks.

Thought it would be a change from the usual POA topics. It just gets me to thinking about how we use tech today. Glass is great, fancy displays, and fly by wire but does it really over come brute strength (F-14 & Phoenix)? Can a Super Hornet pack as much punch as a fully loaded A-6?
 
petrolero said:
Tomahawks are a big offensive upgrade from '79.
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Carriers don't carry Tomahawks - only the escort ships. In the movie the escorts were ordered back to Pearl prior to the time-storm.:redface:
 
Velocity173 said:
Can a Super Hornet pack as much punch as a fully loaded A-6?
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The range of the A-6 (2819 NM) completely smokes the Super Hornet (1275 NM). At sea range is very important.
 
Velocity173 said:
? Can a Super Hornet pack as much punch as a fully loaded A-6?
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No. Can't carry it as far either. The Navy gave up its medium strike role when the A-6 went away. They really, really needed the A-12 to work out.
 
I saw it at a theater when it first came out. A bunch of sailors that were extras were watching it, too. They were hooting and hollering whenever one of them, or someone they new, came on screen. It was pretty funny.
 
Matthew said:
I saw it at a theater when it first came out. A bunch of sailors that were extras were watching it, too. They were hooting and hollering whenever one of them, or someone they new, came on screen. It was pretty funny.
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One of the things I love about that movie was the accuracy of portraying sailors at sea. While the overall story line was Sci-Fi fantasy, I think the film team really captured life at sea better than most Hollywood military films.
 
Fearless Tower said:
One of the things I love about that movie was the accuracy of portraying sailors at sea. While the overall story line was Sci-Fi fantasy, I think the film team really captured life at sea better than most Hollywood military films.
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I lived in Newport News at the time it came out. Was away at college, but was back in town and saw the movie. I used to ride the school bus to jr high right past the NN shipyard twice a day and watched the Nimitz being built.
 
So, didn't the military try this in fact and had some bizarre results?

And yeah, forty years ago, I thought we'd have anti-gravity down by now.

So the leap in tech from the original to now isn't stellar imo.
 
Matthew said:
I saw it at a theater when it first came out. A bunch of sailors that were extras were watching it, too. They were hooting and hollering whenever one of them, or someone they new, came on screen. It was pretty funny.
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I saw it in the theater when I was a kid as well. I always wondered what happened to that A-7 pilot who took the barricade. He flew through the middle of the storm between 1979 and 1941. Did it kill him? Did it age him by 38 years?
 
I could never figure out the paradox of how Mr. Tyson was there to see the Nimitz off while the original Major Tyson was on board so hadn't yet been left behind? :dunno:

For anyone who is into mind bending time travel stories watch the movie called Primer
 
Silvaire said:
I could never figure out the paradox of how Mr. Tyson was there to see the Nimitz off while the original Major Tyson was on board so hadn't yet been left behind? :dunno:

For anyone who is into mind bending time travel stories watch the movie called Primer
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Just keep telling yourself, "It's only a movie, it's only a movie."


:wink2:
 
Silvaire said:
I could never figure out the paradox of how Mr. Tyson was there to see the Nimitz off while the original Major Tyson was on board so hadn't yet been left behind? :dunno:

For anyone who is into mind bending time travel stories watch the movie called Primer
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I think it was Tideman and he was a CDR. Also I think the Tomcat departing in the beginning was him as CAG just as his old current self was rolling thru the front gate in the limo.

Still confusing though. I mean was he seeing Martin Sheen off and looking at himself departing for the Nimitz thinking "well there I go. Flying out to the boat so I can go back in time.":dunno:
 
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You're right, Mr. Tideman, formerly Commander Owens. Well if you watch the movie Primer, they do time travel but it's only over a period of a week at the most and they end up introducing concurrent multiple time streams. It gets really confusing and you have to watch the movie about 3 or 4 times and even then. There's an entire cult following with elaborate charts trying to figure out which time stream a certain character is from.

No jets though :(
 
The dogfight between the Tomcats and the Zero's was a classic, and the soundtrack, and some of the effects were also very cool.

Whenever I am onboard the Midway I am reminded of that movie.

fddogfight_zpse5d9b6f3.jpg


To the OP, the offensive capabilities are nowhere near the jump in technology over the last 38 years but as others have said, SIGINT and defensive are probably about the same magnitude of improvement.

Without the rest of her battlegroup and logistics support the supremacy a Supercarrier represents would be shortlived, soon all the cool toys would be grounded - she could sail for decades but they only carry so much fuel and munitions.

Great question.

'Gimp
 
In 1978 we needed an A-6 with its 24 Mk-82s (or whatever it carried) to destroy a target.

Now we need one JDAM being guided from satellites 10,000+ miles away.

Now we talk about making bombs smaller to reduce collateral damage - SDB.

Seems like a generational advance to me.
 
Datadriver said:
Carriers don't carry Tomahawks - only the escort ships. In the movie the escorts were ordered back to Pearl prior to the time-storm.:redface:
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Yeah I get that. But the OP mentioned Phalanx and i thought only the Aegis class Destroyers had the Phalanx systems, not the carriers. So I guess my mind went more to Carrier Group than carrier itself.
 
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I wonder how a modern carrier would be effected if it lost all GPS capabilities though...
 
The cool thing about that movie is prior the military had been somewhat secretive in the operation of its carriers, no doubt due to security concerns. You didn't see the kind of documentaries and exposure we have now. The star of that movie was the Nimitz and her crew, though Kirk Douglas and Marin Sheen certainly did their utmost.

I suspect that movie saw increased naval recruitment, as did Top Gun.
 
Of course things are better now. We have that Stargate under Cheyenne Mtn! LOL
 
petrolero said:
Yeah I get that. But the OP mentioned Phalanx and i thought only the Aegis class Destroyers had the Phalanx systems, not the carriers. So I guess my mind went more to Carrier Group than carrier itself.
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We had three on the Lincoln, irrc. Plus sea sparrows.

Spare parts & munitions would be the issue for continued ops. Jet fuel is nothing special.
 
petrolero said:
Yeah I get that. But the OP mentioned Phalanx and i thought only the Aegis class Destroyers had the Phalanx systems, not the carriers. So I guess my mind went more to Carrier Group than carrier itself.
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Phalanx is just a close in radar controlled gatling gun mounted on many ships as a last resort defense against sea skimming cruise missiles. I'd be surprised if there were any US combatant ships without a couple.
 
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Witmo said:
Phalanx is just a close in radar controlled gatling gun mounted on many ships as a last resort defense against sea skimming cruise missiles. I'd be surprised if their were any US combatant ships without a couple.
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The newer DDGs (starting around DDG 85 I believe) only have a single mount aft. They removed the forward mount in lieu of vertical launched Sea Sparrows.

Also the silly new Littoral Combat Ships don't have CIWS.
 
pay attention to which carrier departed Pearl at the beginning of the movie and which pulled back in at the end. :)

I was on Nimitz when they filmed a lot of this, got an autographed pic of Kirk Douglas in our Hawkeye. We deployed for an Med cruise Fall of '79, came around the Horn and finished as an I/O cruise end of May, after spending 144 days on Gonzo Station, which included Operation Eagle Claw/Evening Light.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The newer DDGs (starting around DDG 85 I believe) only have a single mount aft. They removed the forward mount in lieu of vertical launched Sea Sparrows.

Also the silly new Littoral Combat Ships don't have CIWS.
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I think the Ramage had one forward. Is that the R2D2 looking gatlin gun?
 
tmyers said:
I think the Ramage had one forward. Is that the R2D2 looking gatlin gun?
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Yes it is. RAMAGE (DDG-61) has two - one forward and one aft. DDG 84 and below have two. 85 and higher just have one aft.
 
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