The "cheap" Tesla is finally out...

[Cap'n Jack]

The apartment I stayed at in Fairbanks had that as an advertised feature, except the power wasn't free. You had an assigned parking spot with a riser that has an outlet in it. You provide the extension cord. The power to the outlet can be controlled by a switch in the apartment so you don't have to worry about someone stealing your power.

I saw the plugs at various places like supermarket parking lots, and it appeared you needed your own extension. I didn't see parking meters. Interestingly, I saw these in Fairbanks.

 

[EppyGA]

What are the main differences between chargers for the Volt Tesla. Are they totally incompatible?

 

[kayoh190]

I’m not a huge fan of the Model 3’s styling, but I love the tech and can see getting a Model S once I move out of the city and into the ‘burbs. I’m sure my (then) wife will end up driving it, but that’ll free me up to buy something ridiculous like a used NSX.

 

[tspear]

What are the main differences between chargers for the Volt Tesla. Are they totally incompatible?

Volt is the generic level 1 and/or 2 charger. Tesla is proprietary but gives you adapters to the three generic ones in the USA.

It full details are posted earlier in the thread


Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Right here:

Really, the best thing for the future would be if more workplaces put in cheap chargers.

Note that it doesn't say "free" anywhere...

Great! My reply would have been more detailed, more than needed.

Oh, I love details too! That's why I got a degree in Engineering, isn't it? Would love to hear more... PM if you'd like.

I believe the Teslas sold in China come with both outlets. I also think their Supercharger network over there, that only Tesla owners can use, only have the Tesla plugs on them. I could be wrong on this though. Maybe the Tesla guys on here know more. I'm one of the "crazy fools" that bought a different brand of BEV.

The Model 3s for China do come with two plugs. Not sure about the S and X. And I think the Superchargers in Europe used the Mennekes plug, but they're actually changing the plugs that they're using over there... Not sure exactly what's going on overseas, I mostly pay attention to the US.

It is true. I personally can't charge my Bolt at the Supercharger Network. The only reason? Elon won't let me. I'm not blaming Elon, or Tesla for keeping it exclusive, that's smart business, I was just pointing out that there are no technical reasons why I couldn't charge there if Elon were to flip the switch on for me.

Well, you would need a plug adapter at least, though Quick Charge Power has one. (And to make this aviation related: Tony Williams, the owner of Quick Charge Power and one of the world's foremost experts on EV charging, is a pilot. )

I think you would also need a software update to your car to work with the Superchargers, and that's something only GM can do. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla eventually opened the Supercharger network to individuals... But that's a lot harder (ie more costly) than working with another OEM to do it.

FWIW, I'm not sure if it was Tony or one of the users of his Tesla adapter, but someone did send a tweet to Elon asking if it was OK with him if non-Tesla cars used the Tesla Destination chargers (the ones that Tesla has provided to hotels, restaurants, and other businesses for free) and he said yes.

As to Elon's generous offer, well, Bollinger publicly asked to have access to the network and it fell on def ears. Not even a response. It's like buying a Tesla, I'm sure that joining the network comes with all sorts of conditions and expenses that benefit Tesla. I will be surprised if anybody ever joins.

Bollinger isn't even a thing yet. They were likely doing that as a publicity stunt... I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla talks to them eventually, but at least start making vehicles first!

On average, For the tesla or any EV owner, whats your electricity bill to charge your vehicle at home per month?

Again, you're kind of asking the wrong question. "Average" doesn't really matter, what YOU drive and what YOUR utility charges matters. Easiest way to figure this out is to take your average monthly mileage, divide by 4, and multiply by your utility's per-kWh rate, and that's about what you should expect.

If you really want "Average", the average American drives about 1000 miles a month and the average electricity rate is $0.12/kWh, so the average increase for an EV should be about thirty bucks a month. That's about where I am, and I was spending $120/mo in gas for my car before I started driving EVs.

What are the main differences between chargers for the Volt Tesla. Are they totally incompatible?

There are adapters available in both directions. Tesla includes a J1772 adapter with the car, so you could use a Volt charger right out of the box. If you wanted to charge a Volt using a Tesla charger, you would need to buy the $239 JDapter Stub. I described the various charger types in detail in this post.

 

[Gerhardt]

One thing I really like about Tesla is that they're doing away with the dealership requirement.

Over the years I've bought a dozen new cars from our local Ford dealership. The owner of the dealership knows my name, but makes no bones about showing that he couldn't give two shakes about me, and to be honest I see no value in going through them. It's just one of those legal requirements because NADA has their hooks in the legislature.

 

[Zeldman]

What was the car company...Saturn.?? No haggle prices... just come in and pay what we tell you to pay....

 

[Anymouse]

What was the car company...Saturn.?? No haggle prices... just come in and pay what we tell you to pay....

Kinda like a real store.

I actually liked my Saturns. Still driving one. P'd me off when GM axed them. I think the model was a pain in their side and they took the opportunity to get rid of them when they had the chance.

 

[genna]

Kinda like a real store.

I actually liked my Saturns. Still driving one. P'd me off when GM axed them. I think the model was a pain in their side and they took the opportunity to get rid of them when they had the chance.

Saturn, while never really anything exceptional, was very independent in the beginning. At the end, it was just like every other rebadged GM car with all of the same labor and quality issues. Just costed more money on average.

 

[Velocity173]

Does Tesla take trade ins?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Does Tesla take trade ins?

Yes, though I'm not sure how that'll work going forward. I've also heard it's a good idea to take it to CarMax or one of the others like it to get a different quote, as they sometimes lowball the trade-ins... Probably just like everyone else.

 

[deonb]

Yes, though I'm not sure how that'll work going forward. I've also heard it's a good idea to take it to CarMax or one of the others like it to get a different quote, as they sometimes lowball the trade-ins... Probably just like everyone else.

Our trade-in from a Nissan Leaf to the Model 3 was all done online via Tesla.com.

We sent in pictures of the Leaf from various angles and mileage etc. and they gave us a quote and we accepted it.

Came pick-up day of the Model 3 (from a Service Center, not a store), we just parked the Leaf in the parking lot and gave the keys to the Model 3 delivery person. They didn't even look at the Leaf - the trade-in process was far easier than returning a rental car.

Since this was at a service center, and those will still exist, I don't imagine the process will change any. Also, keep in mind Tesla has done trade-ins in Texas for years, and Tesla has never had anything other than online sales in Texas.

 

[Dav8or]

What was the car company...Saturn.?? No haggle prices... just come in and pay what we tell you to pay....

And it was popular. Many people are actually happy to pay a lot extra for a car just to make the sales process simple and easy. When people ***** about haggling at dealerships and praise Tesla for the "no haggle deal", I tell them to go into the dealership of your choice and demand to pay no less than MSRP. I guarantee striking the deal will be easy.

Now the ridiculous paperwork... that's another story. That is dealer BS.

 

[Zeldman]

Many people are actually happy to pay a lot extra for a car just to make the sales process simple and easy

And that is what makes it so crazy to me.

"The price for this widget is marked at 100 bucks. Lets offer 125 bucks and see if they accept"....

Haggling is the fun part for me. I go in with a set price in mind and I don't move from it. Gotta know when to say no and walk. I don't need this car. I would like to have it, but I don't need it.

 

[Velocity173]

After you order, who handles the financing? What rate?

 

[Anymouse]

After you order, who handles the financing? What rate?

Call your bank. It's normally a pretty quick process if you have good credit. From my experience, it's better rates as well.

Of course the deal hates you because he doesn't get a cut of the financing. Just make sure you don't tell him about that until you sign the sales contract.

 

[deonb]

After you order, who handles the financing? What rate?

Tesla arranged financing for us from Chase. It was just an online application at the time we placed the order. My rate is 3.19%.

I generally only finance stuff through my Credit Union, but the Chase rate that Tesla arranged was lower than the lowest published rate of my Credit Union at the time.

 

[Matthew]

I don't own an EV or live in Missouri, but I did come across this in the KC paper this morning:

In MO, annual vehicle registration fees are based on horsepower. EV owners pay an additional $75 for a "special fuel decal".

To raise more money, there is a new bill up for consideration. It would base fees on MPG. Cars with lower MPG pay less, probably because they would already be paying more in fuel taxes. 20 mpg pays $24, 40 mpg pays $90, 60+ mpg pays $210. EV owners would pay $210 on top of the $75 they already pay.

This is expected to raise an additional $100 million.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I don't own an EV or live in Missouri, but I did come across this in the KC paper this morning:

In MO, annual vehicle registration fees are based on horsepower. EV owners pay an additional $75 for a "special fuel decal".

To raise more money, there is a new bill up for consideration. It would base fees on MPG. Cars with lower MPG pay less, probably because they would already be paying more in fuel taxes. 20 mpg pays $24, 40 mpg pays $90, 60+ mpg pays $210. EV owners would pay $210 on top of the $75 they already pay.

This is expected to raise an additional $100 million.

Leave it up to the politicians to find ways to increase tax revenue by using calculations which should have zero to do with the subject of the tax. May as well charge tax based off of number of windows or color of paint, lol.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Leave it up to the politicians to find ways to increase tax revenue by using calculations which should have zero to do with the subject of the tax. May as well charge tax based off of number of windows or color of paint, lol.

They should charge by weight. Heavier vehicles cause more wear.

 

[James331]

They should charge by weight. Heavier vehicles cause more wear.

Or just use the already overtaxed gas and remove the other taxes. I’ve lived in some very high taxes states, they on average have had some of the worst roads, if you think having massive taxes makes roads or schools or the like better, you might want to research it a little more.

 

[SoonerAviator]

They should charge by weight. Heavier vehicles cause more wear.

Weight or just tax tires. Charge a tax on tires by mileage. 50,000 mile tires for passenger cars get x per tire. Light trucks a higher rate. Heavy trucks/semi trucks get the top rate.

 

[Matthew]

Weight or just tax tires. Charge a tax on tires by mileage. 50,000 mile tires for passenger cars get x per tire. Light trucks a higher rate. Heavy trucks/semi trucks get the top rate.

I'll be buying my tires online.

I know states want a use tax to pay for roads, or whatever it is that gets the money. Gas tax is one way. But with cars getting more mpg, the tax per gallon gets spread over more miles. There was talk about a mileage tax; pay based on miles driven since the last renewal. But that ends up taxing drivers on miles driven out of state, too, so that idea never goes anywhere.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I'll be buying my tires online.

I know states want a use tax to pay for roads, or whatever it is that gets the money. Gas tax is one way. But with cars getting more mpg, the tax per gallon gets spread over more miles. There was talk about a mileage tax; pay based on miles driven since the last renewal. But that ends up taxing drivers on miles driven out of state, too, so that idea never goes anywhere.

True, but in my state (OK) we don’t even have annual vehicle inspections, just pay the registration fee and you’re done with it. Buying tires online is easily enough solved by forcing the tax to be collected (Amazon is not tax free in OK). It’s tough to gather an accurate tax rate on miles traveled in-state outside of toll pass monitors on every road traveled.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Weight or just tax tires. Charge a tax on tires by mileage. 50,000 mile tires for passenger cars get x per tire. Light trucks a higher rate. Heavy trucks/semi trucks get the top rate.

Problem with the tire tax is that you'll make tires prohibitively expensive for lower-income folks so they'll just be riding them until they're bare, which makes the roads less safe for everyone else too.

The average gas tax in the US (counting both federal and state) is 49.44 cents per gallon. If you get 30 mpg, that's 1.648 cents per mile. To make that up on a 50,000 mile set of tires would be $824... So you're going to be more than doubling the price of tires if you do that.

Gas taxes work mainly because you can't make the car go without gas. They do have a weight component to them in that heavier vehicles require more fuel.

But, gas mileage keeps getting better and the federal gas tax hasn't increased since 1993, so it should be increased pretty dramatically just to make up for inflation. We're also going to have to catch up on all that maintenance that hasn't been done because inflation has been outrunning the tax... So realistically, the gas tax would probably need to double if the average MPG was the same, but the average MPG has increased by over 10% during that time frame as well, and we have EVs now too. We definitely need more money, one way or the other.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Problem with the tire tax is that you'll make tires prohibitively expensive for lower-income folks so they'll just be riding them until they're bare, which makes the roads less safe for everyone else too.

The average gas tax in the US (counting both federal and state) is 49.44 cents per gallon. If you get 30 mpg, that's 1.648 cents per mile. To make that up on a 50,000 mile set of tires would be $824... So you're going to be more than doubling the price of tires if you do that.

Gas taxes work mainly because you can't make the car go without gas. They do have a weight component to them in that heavier vehicles require more fuel.

But, gas mileage keeps getting better and the federal gas tax hasn't increased since 1993, so it should be increased pretty dramatically just to make up for inflation. We're also going to have to catch up on all that maintenance that hasn't been done because inflation has been outrunning the tax... So realistically, the gas tax would probably need to double if the average MPG was the same, but the average MPG has increased by over 10% during that time frame as well, and we have EVs now too. We definitely need more money, one way or the other.

The problem with the gas tax is that is doesn’t account for EVs, and their likely increasing numbers over the next few decades. So you get fewer tax dollars coming in unless you can start tying electric bills to road taxes or to registration/consumables like tires. The nice thing about tolls is that it’s taken out of peoples income gradually, where a single tax on tires would be a large hit. Same goes for fuel taxes vs registration mileage. However, you have to account for it somehow. The tax dollars needed is the same whether it’s once ever 3 years for tires or every year at inspection time.

The other truth, is the heavy trucks cause more damage to roadways by a large margin, and should be taxed as such. However, heavy trucks just pass that tax (toll) on to the customers they are hauling goods for anyway.