The "cheap" Tesla is finally out...

[flyingcheesehead]

The main thing though is that you cannot get a Model 3 with any meaningful useful range for less than around $50,000 maybe they will become less-costly in the used car market, but that remains to be seen.

Huh? The "mid range" (260 mile) Model 3 currently starts at $42,900.

The 3 did start out with a base price of $49,000 when they were only making the long range version and the only options you could choose from were color, wheels, and whether or not to unlock Autopilot, but since Tesla doesn't do things in model years like other car companies do, you have to treat it more like a tech company - Blink and you'll miss the changes!

FWIW, the long-range one now starts at $49,900, but it also has AWD now.

Well, the changes have been coming fast and furious, and today Tesla finally released the $35K Model 3, with 220 miles of range, and the standard interior option.

There were really several announcements today:

* Standard range and "Standard Plus" models available
* All Model 3s getting software tweaks to make them faster (top end), quicker (acceleration), and longer range (325 miles for the long-range models). And yes, this is going out to all existing owners too. Owners are probably used to the upgrades happening, but that's still pretty cool that the car just keeps getting better AFTER you buy it, even while it's just sitting in your garage!
* New interior options (Standard, "Partial Premium", Premium)
* Retail sales getting slashed

So, there are now six "trims". All of them include:

• Tinted glass roof with ultraviolet and infrared protection
• Auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors
• Custom driver profiles
• Efficient permanent magnet rear motor

1) 220 mile, $35,000 Standard Range

• 130 mph, 5.6 sec 0-60
• Manual seat and steering adjustment
• Cloth seats and base trim
• Basic audio
• Standard maps and navigation
• Center console with storage and 4 USB ports

2) 240 mile $37,000 Standard Plus range with "partial premium" interior, adds:

• 140 mph, 5.3 sec 0-60
• 12-way power adjustable heated front seats
• Premium seat material and trim
• Upgraded audio – immersive sound
• Standard maps & navigation
• LED fog lamps
• Center console with storage, 4 USB ports and docking for 2 smartphones

3) 264 mile, $40,000 Mid Range with premium interior, adds:

• 140 mph, 5.2 sec 0-60
• Rear heated seats
• Premium audio – 14 speakers, 1 subwoofer, 2 amps, and immersive sound
• Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization and navigation
• In-car internet streaming music & media
• Internet browser
• Location-aware automatic garage door opener

4) 325 mile, $43,000 Long Range with premium interior

• 140 mph, 5.0 sec 0-60
• Longest range, same battery as the ones below but only has to run one motor.

5) 310 mile, $47,000 Long Range dual motor AWD with premium interior

• 145 mph, 4.5 sec 0-60
• Adds a front AC induction motor to drive the front wheels

6) 310 mile, $58,000 Long Range dual motor AWD Performance with premium interior

• 162 mph, 3.2 sec 0-60
• 20” Performance Wheels
• Performance Brakes
• Carbon fiber spoiler
• Lowered suspension
• Aluminum alloy pedals
• Increased top speed from to 162 mph
• Track Mode

Options:
1) Color: Black is free. Gray and Blue are $1500, White is $2000, and multi-coat red is $2500
2) Wheels: 18" Aero wheels included, 19" Sport wheels are $1500. (Performance model has 20" sport wheels.)
3) Interior: Black is included and the only option on the Standard interior. All others can be switched to a White interior for $1000.
4) Autopilot (see below): Standard Autopilot is $3,000 ($4K after delivery), "Full self driving" is an additional $5,000 ($7K after delivery).

FWIW, when I first configured the car I wanted, it came to $66,000 if I included FSD or $63K if I didn't. Now, it's $59,000 with FSD or $54,000 without.

And that leads me to the next big change: Autopilot.

"Autopilot" as it first came out in 2015 for late-2014 and later cars was really a combination of two things: Autosteer and Traffic Aware Cruise Control. Great on the highway for long trips.

Originally, this was done in partnership with another company (Mobileye, I think), but that relationship soured and Tesla thought they could do better on their own. So, in late 2016 they switched to "hardware 2.0" which was their in-house developed version with 8 cameras, and started working on what they called "Enhanced autopilot." This includes Summon (where the car could be driven in or out of a tight parking space or garage from outside the car), Autopark (where the car could parallel or perpendicular park itself), and has since added Navigate On Autopilot where it'll follow a route along highways and take the right exits as well as the ability to change lanes and pass slower traffic.

Now, they're making Autopilot cheaper (was $5K, now $3K) but it's going back to just Autosteer + TACC, and the Full Self Driving option (was $3K, now $5K) now includes Summon, Autopark, and Navigate On Autopilot. We've all gotten used to "Elon Time" in his predictions, but they must be getting much closer to the car being able to handle city streets (including stop signs/lights) - He said very confidently that it's a certainty that the features will be ready this year, but next it'll need to get proven/tweaked and approved by regulators to actually do it without supervision, which is likely to take a fair bit longer.

The other big change is that it sounds like they're going to close a bunch of retail locations, especially those that don't have a service center attached. They've been forced to have them in some states that don't allow OEM sales, and the salesmen in the stores in those states aren't allowed to tell you anything about prices, just point you to the web site. I guess Tesla is getting sick of fighting the state-by-state battle to do business, and they can save a bunch of money as well.

I'm not sure this is a great idea, if it goes to the lengths it sounds like it might. I think they should keep any place with a service center open, though they are transitioning toward having as much mobile service as possible (which is a lot, since nearly everything can be done without a lift).

However, Tesla is very forward-thinking, and I think they're soon getting to the point where they can do what they really want: The car will drive itself to you when you buy it, and if it needs service, the mobile service crew will take care of it on location. If it's not driveable and you need a loaner, they'll have a loaner drive itself to you. I think that might just make up for no longer having the in-person delivery experience.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

@mjburian, @deonb, and other Tesla owners - Any thoughts? Heard when you'll get the improved performance? Do you know if you're grandfathered in on things like Navigate on Autopilot if you didn't purchase FSD? Are you unhappy with the price changes, or happy that your car gets better?

 

[EdFred]

You know how much gas I can buy for the price difference in buying an ICE sedan versus one of these?

Sorry for me it's still all about price. I don't have a kids so **** the environment.

 

[mjburian]

I bought my car based on what it did/had when I bought it. Still think it was worth every penny. When it gets better and doesn’t cost me any more money... even better!

Also, I bought FSD when I got the car, so I’ll get a free AP3 hardware swap.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Keep in mind that ambient temp extremes can affect those range numbers significantly. Batteries tend to like the same temps we do...65 to 75 F is nice.

Like EdFred, it's all about the Benjamins for me...the $20K delta between the "cheap" base model 3 and what I drive will buy decades' worth of fuel. Show me a $20K Tesla and we'll talk!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You know how much gas I can buy for the price difference in buying an ICE sedan versus one of these?

You know how much you won't have to stand outside in the Michigan winter pumping gas into it?

That's one of the best parts about EVs - No more going to the gas station. Grab the plug off the wall and plug it into the car when I pull into the garage, pull the plug and put it back on the wall when I'm ready to go. And no more freezing my ass off waiting for the engine to warm up in the winter either.

Like EdFred, it's all about the Benjamins for me...the $20K delta between the "cheap" base model 3 and what I drive will buy decades' worth of fuel. Show me a $20K Tesla and we'll talk!

This also ain't a Kia or other econobox. If it's really all about the money, then go buy one and have fun. That doesn't mean this isn't a better car.

They did talk about a "Model 4" at one point, which would have been a $20K-$25K car that would come out at some point in the future when battery tech and production efficiency allowed for it. However, it sounds like they're going to get to full self-driving, get the Tesla Network up and going, and see if people even want to own their own car any more, even if it is "cheap". If it's all about the benjamins, the $20K you'd save by not buying a car at all would pay for a LOT of rides in a self-driving car...

Keep in mind that ambient temp extremes can affect those range numbers significantly. Batteries tend to like the same temps we do...65 to 75 F is nice.

Yep. No guarantees on range, just like MPG isn't guaranteed on an ICE vehicle. My mission requirement is pretty much that the car be able to do 200 miles on the absolute worst day in winter (basically, a round trip to my parents', otherwise there'll be a Supercharger on the way if I need to go farther), so I'll want the long range model. That'll also allow for some battery degradation and still make the trip.

 

[EdFred]

If I can spend a half an hour to 45 minutes outside snow blowing my driveway I can certainly spend 5 minutes filling up my gas tank every 2 weeks. And when I do make the road trips I do I don't have to stop. I also have yet to freeze my ass off in my truck in the winter time.

 

[Zeldman]

Sorry for me it's still all about price.

With ranges like that I would still have to have 2 vehicles....one for running around town, and one for going to town. So a hybrid would have to work for me, but it will need to carry more than just a couple people and a cat, plus pull a trailer.

But I am still watching with interest. I am sure that one day the mileage will be good enough for me to go to town, run errands, and get back home on one charge. Just hope it will be affordable and comes before I am too ancient to drive.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If I can spend a half an hour to 45 minutes outside snow blowing my driveway I can certainly spend 5 minutes filling up my gas tank every 2 weeks.

I "can" do that too... Doesn't mean I want to.

In your case, I wouldn't recommend one yet anyway. I assume you still drive to Sidnaw sometimes... And while it's maybe possible on a nice weather day right now, with a LONG stop at the Gaylord Supercharger (because you'd have to fill it all the way to 100%, and the last 20% takes as long as the first 80%), you'd need to charge it to 100% while in Sidnaw as well and make it all the way back to Gaylord.

Maybe next year... They're supposed to put a Superchargers in at Mackinaw City and Marquette sometime this year. Mackinaw would very nicely split the trip in half and only require an 80% charge on a nice day, and it'd allow for the trip to be made in crappy winter conditions too. I'm guessing you'd rather have the pickup anyway, if you were ever going to end your curmudgeonly ways and buy an EV.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

With ranges like that I would still have to have 2 vehicles....one for running around town, and one for going to town. So a hybrid would have to work for me, but it will need to carry more than just a couple people and a cat, plus pull a trailer.

But I am still watching with interest. I am sure that one day the mileage will be good enough for me to go to town, run errands, and get back home on one charge. Just hope it will be affordable and comes before I am too ancient to drive.

How far from "town" are you?!?

 

[Zeldman]

How far from "town" are you?!?

Depends..... if I want to go to Walmart and Taco Bell then not too far. If I want to buy good clothes, see a doctor or get a commercial flight or many, many other things I can't get in town then about 2.5 hours.

I can get groceries in Gallup, but if I want any variation of groceries, plus fresh and affordable fruit and vegetables then I go to Albuquerque once a month. That is usually a little over 350 miles round trip including in town driving. And I have to take my wife to the Asian food store so she can get her fish eyes and fish butts and chicken feet and at least two 50 pound bags of rice....

On Friday I will drive a 240 mile round trip to get a ton of wood pellets so I can heat the house. So that is why an electric vehicle won't work for me. I am optimistic that some day one will work for me, but I am afraid it might look like this.......

 

[chartbundle]

My car has a range of 600 miles and has a 'recharge' time of about 5 minutes and can tow 7000lbs. Wake me when the electrics get there. (I don't commute to work so I don't have any need to have 2 cars.)

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Depends..... if I want to go to Walmart and Taco Bell then not too far. If I want to buy good clothes, see a doctor or get a commercial flight or many, many other things I can't get in town then about 2.5 hours.

I can get groceries in Gallup,

Ah, you're down there. I had an aunt, uncle, and two cousins who lived in Tohatchi for several years, and had to go to Gallup for... Well, everything. LOL

if I want any variation of groceries, plus fresh and affordable fruit and vegetables then I go to Albuquerque once a month. That is usually a little over 350 miles round trip including in town driving. And I have to take my wife to the Asian food store so she can get her fish eyes and fish butts and chicken feet and at least two 50 pound bags of rice....

But seriously... 10-15 minutes at the Albuquerque Supercharger would make that trip do-able. If you need to eat, it's in the parking lot of Applebee's near 40 and 25, though personally I'd head to the local Mexican joint a couple blocks east instead.

On Friday I will drive a 240 mile round trip to get a ton of wood pellets so I can heat the house. So that is why an electric vehicle won't work for me. I am optimistic that some day one will work for me, but I am afraid it might look like this.......

Yeah, sounds like the Tesla pickup is probably the thing for you to wait for too, though you could probably do it with an X and a trailer too.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My car has a range of 600 miles and has a 'recharge' time of about 5 minutes and can tow 7000lbs. Wake me when the electrics get there. (I don't commute to work so I don't have any need to have 2 cars.)

If that's all you ever do is tow 7000 pounds for 600 miles without stopping, then yeah, I'd wait!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

And I find it rather amusing that all the posts so far have been essentially the equivalent of "Well, I need it to fly 300 knots on 10 gph for 3000 miles, and carry 2000 pounds, inverted, and land on water at one end".

If it really won't work for you, then who cares? STFU and get on with your life.

 

[SCCutler]

That 37k model sounds like the sweet spot, except I still don't need a car.

But, I think the decision to close a bunch of stores is more likely being done to conserve capital. Could be wrong...

 

[BrianNC]

And no more freezing my ass off waiting for the engine to warm up in the winter either.

Speaking of that, what kind of heat do these cars have? I assume some kind of electric heat?

 

[jesse]

Speaking of that, what kind of heat do these cars have? I assume some kind of electric heat?

Heat is a by far easier problem to solve with an ICE. The ice has tons of excess heat that would otherwise be wasted. Any heat generated in an electric car will make for a noticeable range decrease, as heat takes watts, and a fair quantity. By the time you account for the battery performance losses and the heating losses you’re talking a range decrease in winter operations, realistically, around 40 percent, maybe more.

Crank the heat as hot as you want in an ICE and you will not measure any range decrease.

If you can leave the car plugged in the night before, then yeah it’ll be pre-heated like Kent claims, but the caveat is plugging it in.

Reality is, you’re going to learn to accept a colder temperature in your electric car on a long trip then you ever would have ran in your ICE. No worries - the koolaid will make you think it’s a feature.

ICE solves all this better. I leave my F150 parked outside. I can tell Alexa to start my truck, and it’ll preheat toasty as hell, even when it’s below zero. Then I can climb inside and drive 700 miles non-stop, which I do, every few months. Couple minutes at a pump and good for another 700. Buying gas at a pump is 100X less cold exposure then all these Tesla guys hiking it half a mile in the cold to the coffee shop while their battery charges so that they can sit there for 90 minutes and tell the internet how much sweeter their car is.

There is nothing about an electric car that makes it “better” as far as being ready for the driver whenever the driver wants and ensuring the driver is comfortable. Winter or summer - my F150 can do it many many times better.

These sort of lies will only hold the cars back. I respect the technology and the potential but I have little patience for the negatives being painted as if they’re wonderful features.

Hell I can schedule my ford to start itself and preheat on a schedule too, couple taps in the ford app, nothing special. Came that way OEM, including the integration with Alexa. Truck has a cellular modem for data and Ford covers the service.

Why does Kent have all this time to defend the glory of electric cars? Simple answer...he’s waiting for his damn battery to charge.

 

[deonb]

@mjburian, @deonb, and other Tesla owners - Any thoughts? Heard when you'll get the improved performance? Do you know if you're grandfathered in on things like Navigate on Autopilot if you didn't purchase FSD? Are you unhappy with the price changes, or happy that your car gets better?

Yes we’re grandfathered into NOA, AutoPark and Summon:
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1101256189051002881?s=21

Improved performance I don’t know - generally major updates take about 2 to 3 months from they’re announced until they come out.

 

[tspear]

Heat is a by far easier problem to solve with an ICE. The ice has tons of excess heat that would otherwise be wasted. Any heat generated in an electric car will make for a noticeable range decrease, as heat takes watts, and a fair quantity. By the time you account for the battery performance losses and the heating losses you’re talking a range decrease in winter operations, realistically, around 40 percent, maybe more.

Crank the heat as hot as you want in an ICE and you will not measure any range decrease.

If you can leave the car plugged in the night before, then yeah it’ll be pre-heated like Kent claims, but the caveat is plugging it in.

Reality is, you’re going to learn to accept a colder temperature in your electric car on a long trip then you ever would have ran in your ICE. No worries - the koolaid will make you think it’s a feature.

ICE solves all this better. I leave my F150 parked outside. I can tell Alexa to start my truck, and it’ll preheat toasty as hell, even when it’s below zero. Then I can climb inside and drive 700 miles non-stop, which I do, every few months. Couple minutes at a pump and good for another 700. Buying gas at a pump is 100X less cold exposure then all these Tesla guys hiking it half a mile in the cold to the coffee shop while their battery charges so that they can sit there for 90 minutes and tell the internet how much sweeter their car is.

There is nothing about an electric car that makes it “better” as far as being ready for the driver whenever the driver wants and ensuring the driver is comfortable. Winter or summer - my F150 can do it many many times better.

These sort of lies will only hold the cars back. I respect the technology and the potential but I have little patience for the negatives being painted as if they’re wonderful features.

Hell I can schedule my ford to start itself and preheat on a schedule too, couple taps in the ford app, nothing special. Came that way OEM, including the integration with Alexa. Truck has a cellular modem for data and Ford covers the service.

Why does Kent have all this time to defend the glory of electric cars? Simple answer...he’s waiting for his damn battery to charge.

Because you are wrong. That is why.
If the car has the range, EV is quieter, smoother, generally more comfortable, often more fun to drive, and cheaper to operate.
My brother does not skimp on the heat and he lives in NH. However, he had an early Leaf and now a Bolt. Both have more than enough range for HIS requirements in the recent below zero weather.

Oh, he can preheat his car in the garage, and not worry about co2 poisoning. Lol. So on one trip he does every week or two, he never puts on a coat even when below 0 outside.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

edit: typo fix

 

[aftCG]

They've certainly come a long ways .

Curious how people in urban areas with limited on-street parking will adore finding a way to plug in. Ditto with keeping it warm at night in freezing temps.

Not bashing. Years ago, r/c electric planes were a joke but now I can hardly justify mounting one of my engines. Battery fires are still a real hazard.

 

[EdFred]

Honest question: How long do they hold their charge when not plugged in at all? Say I am taking a 10-14 day vacation on the airlines, and leave the car in the backwaters of the airport parking lot. Will it start when I get back?

It sounds like every time you stop you have to plug it in.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Speaking of that, what kind of heat do these cars have? I assume some kind of electric heat?

Janitrol.
Seriously though, a friend has a Volt. Nice car, quiet, comfortable. Bought it used, so it was cheap. Probably drives 5k miles a year if that. A trip to town is 15 miles round trip. I think she bought $50 worth of fuel last year.

 

[tspear]

Honest question: How long do they hold their charge when not plugged in at all? Say I am taking a 10-14 day vacation on the airlines, and leave the car in the backwaters of the airport parking lot. Will it start when I get back?

It sounds like every time you stop you have to plug it in.

Same as any other Li Polymer battery. With the alarm, clock... and all the other stuff my brother counts on losing about %1 a week last I asked. Which is better than his minivan

Tim

 

[tspear]

They've certainly come a long ways .

Curious how people in urban areas with limited on-street parking will adore finding a way to plug in. Ditto with keeping it warm at night in freezing temps.

Not bashing. Years ago, r/c electric planes were a joke but now I can hardly justify mounting one of my engines. Battery fires are still a real hazard.

Most of those with limited on street parking will be like my middle child. She has gone car less and switched to Uber/Lyft and mass transit. With a lower operating cost per mile, the cost of ride sharing will continue to get pushed down. At the same time, expect that within fifteen years or so there will be many areas of the country where you can have the car drive itself to/from a parking garage. The parking garages will be outfitted with the wireless car chargers, so no people involved.

Tim

 

[deonb]

Honest question: How long do they hold their charge when not plugged in at all? Say I am taking a 10-14 day vacation on the airlines, and leave the car in the backwaters of the airport parking lot. Will it start when I get back?

It sounds like every time you stop you have to plug it in.

Vampire drain is between 1 to 3 miles a day.

Unless you put the car to "Always On" when you park, but don't do that. Or if you keep waking the car up remotely every minute to check on it. (There are apps/websites that do this for you in order to graph it, so it's not entirely unrealistic).

So to answer your question - between 14 to 42 miles lost in that time. I'd plan on 50.

 

[mjburian]

Honest question: How long do they hold their charge when not plugged in at all? Say I am taking a 10-14 day vacation on the airlines, and leave the car in the backwaters of the airport parking lot. Will it start when I get back?

It sounds like every time you stop you have to plug it in.

I’m headed back from a trip soon. My car has been parked outside in Milwaukee (but “turned off” while I was gone) and I’ve lost 8 miles of range in 7 days.

I took a 10 day trip in September and didn’t turn the car off and lost about 40 miles of range while I was gone.

You only have to plug in when you need to add range but, that said, most people who have an electric car plug in at home every night (why not?).

 

[Gerhardt]

Most of those with limited on street parking will be like my middle child. She has gone car less and switched to Uber/Lyft and mass transit. With a lower operating cost per mile, the cost of ride sharing will continue to get pushed down. At the same time, expect that within fifteen years or so there will be many areas of the country where you can have the car drive itself to/from a parking garage.
Tim

You're 100% correct, except it will be much sooner than 15 years.

This is a tsunami of a problem coming for the auto and insurance industries. The massive expansion of vehicles we've seen on the road over the last several decades will reverse sharply. Many of these vehicles won't be sitting in a garage during the day. A number of them will be out earning $ for uber/lyft. And many families won't need 2, 3, 4 vehicles. Mom and dad go to work, the car drives home on its own and takes the kids to school, then if they don't want it driving for uber it can take itself back to dad's work and wait for him to leave for the day.

It's a big problem for insurers because right now auto insurance is their bread and butter, accounting for about 70% of the money coming in the door. Fewer cars mean fewer policies. Safer (driverless) cars means reduced claims, hence reduced premium dollars. Many insurers aren't paying attention and I think we'll see some big names that will cease to exist when the time comes. Some major players out there are already taking action in preparation.

 

[jesse]

Because you are wrong. That is why.
If the car has the range, EV is quieter, smoother, generally more comfortable, often more fun to drive, and cheaper to operate.
My brother does not skimp on the heat and he lives in NH. However, he had an early Leaf and now a Bolt. Both have more than enough range for HIS requirements in the recent below zero weather.

Oh, he can preheat his car in the garage, and not worry about co2 poisoning. Lol. So on one trip he does every week or two, he never puts on a coat even when below 0 outside.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

edit: typo fix

I can preheat in my garage just fine. One voice command to Alexa and my garage door will open 3 ft then start my truck engine. I rarely use that one though, because it’s a pain in the ass trying to fit my truck in my garage.

 

[Gerhardt]

The only thing that bothers me about EV are the batteries that get changed out. Unless we find a way to recycle them that's a lot of toxic waste being drained into the land.

The other big thing is that we currently fund a huge percentage of road maintenance/repairs through gas tax. The money for that still needs to be there so it will have to come from somewhere.

 

[Bill]

Keep in mind that ambient temp extremes can affect those range numbers significantly. Batteries tend to like the same temps we do...65 to 75 F is nice.

Like EdFred, it's all about the Benjamins for me...the $20K delta between the "cheap" base model 3 and what I drive will buy decades' worth of fuel. Show me a $20K Tesla and we'll talk!

Teslas are still a statement car, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some like to buy expensive German cars, some sports cars, some jacked up trucks, so knock yourself out! What they are not is economical.

We just bought a well equipped 4-door sedan new for $25k. At the present gas prices, the delta will buy 165,000mi of fuel for the new car. Of course this doesn't include the opportunity cost of buying a more expensive car nor the fact that I would have yet to buy any electricity for the Tesla.

 

[Zeldman]

Janitrol.

While reading about how to heat, I was thinking the same thing.

I remember my uncle having a car that he bought when he returned from the war. My best recollection is that it was a 1938-41 Plymouth. It had a heater that ran on the gas from the tank. It would drive everyone out of the car in seconds on the coldest day.

Funny part is he drove it until about '76-'77 and then sold it because as he said, ''It is starting to wear out..." He then bought a Cordova with the rich Corinthian leather. He hated that car.

 

[flhrci]

Here is the burning question: If you recharge your phone with the USB ports, how many miles will you sacrifice?

 

[Matthew]

I used to see a Tesla about once a month. It might have even been the same one. This week alone I've seen one per day, and they haven't been the same one.

Maybe someday I'll get one. I think I've mentioned this before, maybe even somewhere on this thread, I have family in some pretty remote areas and finding a Tesla charging station either at the destination or along the route is not possible. It's a distance that would require at least one full charge along the route, and then a place to charge while I'm there. Running an extension cord from an apartment or hotel to a parking lot might not be possible, so I'd have to find some way to charge in the middle of small-town-middle-of-nowhere-Kansas to keep from being stranded.

Since most couples are already 2-car couples, having one electric and one gas is probably going to be the way it works for a long time.

TLDR: I'd like a Tesla, too, but I'd need to keep my gas car, or rent, for the highway trips that I take. For me, the Tesla would do about 80%+ of what I normally drive. But that 20% would be tough. If it was closer to 90/10 then renting a car for a couple days wouldn't be a problem, but at 80/20 it's a tougher sell.

 

[EdFred]

Teslas are still a statement car, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some like to buy expensive German cars, some sports cars, some jacked up trucks, so knock yourself out! What they are not is economical.

We just bought a well equipped 4-door sedan new for $25k. At the present gas prices, the delta will buy 165,000mi of fuel for the new car. Of course this doesn't include the opportunity cost of buying a more expensive car nor the fact that I would have yet to buy any electricity for the Tesla.

Electricity is free. Don't you know that? I bet if you dig hard enough, you'll find Tesla proponents that will claim that the power companies will pay you to recharge your car.

 

[deonb]

Reality is, you’re going to learn to accept a colder temperature in your electric car on a long trip then you ever would have ran in your ICE. No worries - the koolaid will make you think it’s a feature.

Reality is there are actually those of us on here who have been driving Teslas and other EV's for the better part of a decade.

I can say for sure that I do NOT accept a colder temperature. The Model S will have heat on you within a few seconds of getting in because the electric heater heats up almost instantly. An ICE certainly does not. I never carry a jacket anywhere because it always heats up quick enough.

My other car is a F350 - a very nice Diesel Platinum F350, with all the bells and whistles, but I don't drive it as often unless I haul or tow. But every now and again I have to go and get something from Home Depot in a hurry and forget to put on a jacket because I'm used to the Tesla. And then it becomes painfully obvious that I have to wait for the engine to heat up.

Can I pre-heat the truck? Sure - if I know 15 minutes before that I'm going somewhere and I remember doing it. With the Tesla I don't have to worry so I never do. I guess when you're used to a car that need pre-heating you'll get used to doing it... and convince yourself that "it's a feature".

Buying gas at a pump is 100X less cold exposure then all these Tesla guys hiking it half a mile in the cold to the coffee shop while their battery charges so that they can sit there for 90 minutes and tell the internet how much sweeter their car is.

Where exactly is this "half a mile" hike? I've been to most of the SuperChargers on the west coast, and the worse I've had was that the parking was on the far side of a parking lot. Most places it's just like any other parking spot, or even prime spots right up front since it tends to be easier to hook up to electricity from a building rather than in the middle of nowhere.

There is nothing about an electric car that makes it “better” as far as being ready for the driver whenever the driver wants and ensuring the driver is comfortable. Winter or summer - my F150 can do it many many times better.

Every time I make a trip I have a choice between taking one of:
* My Model S
* My wife's Model 3
* My Ford F350 (2016 Platinum, and before that I had a GMC Sierra Denali 2500. IOW: Nice trucks that certainly make for a decent trip).

I have never ever taken the F350 or the Denali in order to try and avoid charge time, heat/cold issues, snow or any other imaginary issue people have. It doesn't even come close to crossing my mind. I take the truck when it's the right tool for the job - mostly RV'ing or other towing. I do love my truck, but the Tesla is still a better, safer, funner car. No koolaid here I need to "convince" myself of since I do have a choice on each trip. No "environmental" concerns for me since I simply don't care. No concern about the cost of gas. I take the Tesla simply because it is a better trip experience overall.

I'm planning another 400 mile trip this weekend (200 miles there and back). Mmm... going to have to ask the valet at the hotel we're staying at to go plug the car in. I may even have to reach all the way into the back of the glove compartment to get out the charge adapter for him. What a burden, right?


Look, if I were to drive to Anchorage (from Seattle), I would take the truck no question. And if I didn't have one I'd rent a car. But I buy a car for the life I'm actually leading, not for the one I imagine I could.

 

[Swampfox201]

Reading these posts there are obviously those for and against electric cars. I grow corn in Nebraska and all my corn goes to an ethanol plant. I’m for electric cars and I think they will dominate the market in a few years but if this happens it will reduce or eliminate a huge market for me.

This is a pretty long video but it’s one mans take on the future of automation and electric cars. It’s an interesting watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James331]

Reading these posts there are obviously those for and against electric cars. I grow corn in Nebraska and all my corn goes to an ethanol plant. I’m for electric cars and I think they will dominate the market in a few years but if this happens it will reduce or eliminate a huge market for me.

This is a pretty long video but it’s one mans take on the future of automation and electric cars. It’s an interesting watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure you actually have a “market” as I don’t think ethanol could stand on its own in a real free market without the goverment using force to push the stuff out.

Per the $35,000 Tesla, so basically it’s a Toyota Camry, but with worse fit and finish, similar performance, less range and about $10,000 more?

So I don’t get crazy good performance, we have already covered how they stop and corner like a 1980’s sports car, it also is like 600lbs more than a Camry.

I don’t get better range (like 300% better) than a civic or Camry or whatever

They have fit and finish problems

It’s not exactly sexy

It’s like $10k more than similar performing cars

So all I get is I can say I’m driving a electric car?
I don’t really care 10 grand worth just to make a statement like that, and also at the expense of performance and practicality too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotor...la_model_3_vs_toyota_camry_aka_lets_properly/

https://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-results/tesla_model-3_2018-vs-toyota_camry_2018



IMO the future isn’t whiz bang crap, it’s using our tech to refine known good designs, take the diesel trident

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/mavericks/trident-iceni-supercar-almost-made-it#1

57mpg
200mph
0-60 in 3
2200mi range
Runs on normal diesel, or bio diesel or if you really want to hippie out lineseed or palm oil
Also looks pretty damn good doing it

Not saying everyone should drive a six figure sports car like the trident, but if we can do this, make a monster like this car that gets 57mpg, imagine what we could do if we only required the lack luster performance of a Tesla 3.

 

[Velocity173]

Reading these posts there are obviously those for and against electric cars. I grow corn in Nebraska and all my corn goes to an ethanol plant. I’m for electric cars and I think they will dominate the market in a few years but if this happens it will reduce or eliminate a huge market for me.

This is a pretty long video but it’s one mans take on the future of automation and electric cars. It’s an interesting watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think he’s right on in his predictions but like he said, there are those who will always prefer driving over autonomous. Unless the govt outlaws the classics, we’ll always have human driven ICE cars.

For me, I like to drive just like I like to pilot. The physical aspect of movement is only part of the attraction. My “cheaper” Model 3 that I configured came up to $40K and I didn’t even select autopilot. If I’m that physically incapable of driving, then I’m probably not physically capable of enjoying the destination once I arrive. In that case, I should just stay home and watch DVDs, or in my case, VHSs.

Also, never done Uber and can’t ever imagine using it.

 

[James331]

For the self driving cars, not sure how many of you use computers or a autopilot, but I have about ZERO trust in a FULLY self driving car.

I would treat a Tesla autopilot the same as I would a planes autopilot.